[chiang mai, thailand]
photo above from this interview: http://www.nova7.fr/publications/ville-du-peer-to-peer.htm
The best way to understand the P2P model is interpreted not as an elimination of competition in favor of cooperation, but as a new arrangement between these two aspirations of human beings as individuals assert / create links and live in society.
Michel is president of p2p foundation:
intro to p2p via blog via Michel oct 2013:
p2p is a global research collaboratory.. action research ish
copyright/patent making it more difficult for people to share..
do it as a community.. not for scarcity..
4:29 – all kinds of collab – consumption is one – mutualize physical resources, you have to share knowledge as common good – crowdsourcing – not collabing because you compete with logo.. c.. fb – sharing but not constructing something in common..
7 min – sharing vs cheating – maybe they were sharing.. when we thought they were cheating
low hanging fruit – knowledge and software code… making physical is more demanding.. how to move from immaterial peer production to material peer production… what if we do this with money, machinery, energy..
10 min – talking about a commons – a post- capitalist system (making things to make a profit)
12 – what does it take to go from prototype stage to mainstream –
Four Scenarios for the Collaborative Economy
adding/researching/learning more of p2p on this site
These organisations are successful symbolic transmutations of the city, bringing to the negotiating table former drug dealers, the police, the government, bankers, the media and the university. With strategies at once intuitive and paradoxical, they represent transitional experiences that shun the ‘movement’ of drug trafficking culture in the slums and become social and cultural movements that point to a new form of ‘social corporation’ while hacking the socio-cultural discourse of big enterprises, government and media. They may occasionally be used by corporations but proceed through invention, hits and misses, creating possibilities for the appearance of new social actors and movements.
Once we understand that favelas are part of the city, we can also understand that they are historical formations and will eventually be deemed similar to Middle Age citadels – archives and living environments of a phase of capitalism. These lives- territories are exploding beyond their boundaries and might one day overtake the entire city with their inventions: a Favela-City. As AfroReggae founder Jose ́ Ju ́nior says ‘it is the elite which is living in a ghetto’.
Iwan Baan – ness
The city, says Antonio Negri, is the new ‘factory’. The time of work is intermingled with the time of life. Work is no longer dead and characterised by automaticity but rather a living ‘life-work’. In this context, the School should no longer prepare for life, but become life itself. Thus, we see the booming of initiatives in non-formal education, free schools and universities, a demand for education and training in Pontos de Cultura and Pontos de M ́ıdia, with autonomy and freedom as principles for a revolution/mutation in flux that is already under way.
New challenges (such as security, difficulties in shared management, horizontality of relations) arise in this radical model of sharing and common funding, but having free time (collectively paid for), not having to ‘sell’ one’s time for food, clothing and lodging means having a minimal standard of sustainable life. This is not to be confused with ‘working for free’ and does not mean a minimal ‘income’ or ‘grant’. It means another kind of economy, a different horizon of collective agreements for the invention of worlds. Banco do Comum can be the basis for a new ‘life economics’.
what people are seeking.. ways/skills to facilitate collective intelligence.. not just people to people.. but the room/group
18:45 – address youth – find passion/talent/needs of others – out of those comes a commons activity – outside of capital, think different about the construction of value of people in a commons world
via Silke – controlling info is done to control power.. commons are challenging power.. so not that keen at looking at changing sides of fear – phrase from Carolina..
third revolution of human production
1. coercion – do it or you die – slavery et al
2. capitalism – do it for money/exchange
3. passion –
Young people are building their identity based on their contribution to this common projects. So more and more identity is going away from “I am working for IBM” to “I am doing Linux”. It is the combination of their engagements which creates a reputation, association networks and their happiness in life. I have seen that many times, for example in Amsterdam.
They are not just victims of job insecurity, they also need it in a way because they want to be engaged in their passionate projects. This is what gives meaning to their lives and this is why we have a new culture and why we are building all these new alternatives.
this is ‘class struggle 3.0’, between user communities and platform owners, between value creators and value realizers.
Real Commons-based peer production is a bit different. If you are a hacker or a developer you love Linux because this is how you want to work. If your knowledge works you need to share it, you need to build on other people’s ideas and cooperation. This is why all of this was created. Richard Stallman created a free software because he had read a software for printing machines and some guy at the university had told him: “This is ours” and slapped a copyright on it so he could no longer use his own code. It is out of this frustration that is known to every knowledge worker, that the need for openness originates. Here the difference is that as a company you use that code but to what degree does that allow us to continue developing the code? The key conflict in a system where you have entrepreneurial coalition, a foundation and a community is to what degree you can protect the autonomy of the community while at the same time enabling an economic system to grow around it. I think this is an argument about sustainability.
looking back at 2013:
By 2013, everyone ‘got’ the Commons in one way or another, and was interested not just in mere dialogue, but in strategizing for social change.
There were also some less positive developments. One is the cooptation of the p2p concept by mere marketplaces.
Michel’s tiny little 6 mos project in equador… 1st sharing country..
michel – 1. create maker spaces supported by unis for youth and farmers et al 2. create micro factories..
– – –
his open letter to the pope for just that.. empty monestaries into maker spaces…
Why I wrote an Open Letter to Pope Francis
key roles church played in transition times
mutualization of immaterial and material resources
monestary itself mutualized to be used by whole community
new social contract – feudalism – compromise as a basis for the next 3 centuries.. thriving civilization – 1st industrial revolution
role of church – to soften the feudal system… by being the moral economy
lend money to poor at 0 usury raters
7 min – infinite growth as a cancer on the planet..
8 min – mutualization of immaterial (open source) and material (maker spaces) – light global heavy local – very similar to change that happened at end of roman empire
9:45 – visited: taking over an abandoned church… on one hand move of young people yearning to make a change… to share knowledge and mutualize means of production.. on other hand.. many beautiful buildings being sold to market to make hotels/discos… given real estate crises if catholic church would open up this spaces and make them available.. for community… meaningful co-working.. in harmony with original meaning of these buildings.. inspired by the common good
13 min – power should be devolved to lowest most efficient level..
– – –
Dear Pope Francis,
I write to you as a cultural Catholic moved by admiration for the Christian values and how they have been embodied by social change activists such as Ivan Illich, E.F. Schumacher, Paulo Freire, and profound and provocative thinkers such as Marshall McLuhan and Bruno Latour.
We presently live in a system which believes natural resources are infinite, and we are destroying the very eco-systems on which we depend; and the same system believes that knowledge that could benefit humanity should be restricted and kept artificially scarce, through Intellectual Property restrictions that slow down innovation, hide solutions until they are believed to be profitable, and sell vital medicines at inflated prices, amongst many other issues.
The Catholic Church, despite the difficulties due to secularization in Western countries, still has many vital resources. Sometimes, these resources are sold to the marketplace, which may use these in inappropriate ways, such as for examples using abandoned Churches and Monasteries for commercial purposes, for hotels and entertainment venues, but also including sometimes directly related to real-estate speculation.
At the same time, the younger generations of people, and I believe we have a beautiful generation that is concerned and engaged with the Common Good,
Indeed, this vital movement of humanity’s young (and not so young) is in search of common places where they can engage in meaningful activities for the common good, yet, the reality of the current economy often means they are precarious, they cannot afford urban rents that are driven by real estate speculation, and often real estate prices make the mutualization of the workplace a very difficult endeavour.
So the new movement would benefit from Your Assistance, and I am therefore making this proposal and appeal.
Why not think about the repurposing of unused Church property, for precisely the recreation of a moral and ethical economy? Why not create mechanisms for the creation of common hackerspaces, makerspaces, co-working spaces, where the common endeavours can take place in a meaningful and spiritualized space?
Dr. Spangenberg also mentions a way forward which is similar to the proposed approach of mutualized working spaces, but expanded to the scale of a village:
in the city. as the day. a nother way.
– – –
while reading notes – 114 – (at end of book) for ch 10 of debt:
They also won title to a great deal of land from defaulting debtors, most of which ended up in the hands of barons or monasteries (Singer 1964; Bowers 1983; Schofield & Mayhew 2002)
podcast jan 2014
13 min – anti-credentialism
16 min – commons – systems exchange rather than person to person, ie: i couch surf at your place.. you don’ t necessarily then come to my place.. you go somewhere in the entire system
18 in – the common ism of capitalism.. whoever needs it is who uses it..
27 min – places on the edge where you can leap frog – policy/patent et al
32 min – sync of open knowledge & material sharing
33 min – distribution matters – micro factories help with that
34 min – we’re combining false abundance and false scarcity
42 min – not everyone has to be on board.. enough can change/influence
43 min – concern – making peer production more autonomous.. people create their own co ops..
now – we need co ops becoming open and open networks becoming co ops
Michel on ed – june 2014:
Michel on Jeremy Rifkin:
Michel interview.. esp like his 2nd answer – in regard to utopia:
You can’t cooperate ‘freely’, if you need permission, or if you need to pay for intellectual property. The free culture movement directly addresses this question, and wants to create a culture, and the conditions for such a culture to emerge, by diminishing artificial barriers to such cooperation.
on cooperative individualism (networked individualismmi ness):
degrowth conf 2014:
The Transition to a Sustainable Commons Society
if light global, if heavy local
17 min – open license – intro reciprocity in the system (otherwise you have open and ibm uses linux)
18 min – open coop – common good not for profit – solidarity coops – but new needs to happen – digital and physical and civic and production commons..
produce locally, organize globally
22 min – we are using largely toward p2p –
26 min – visual – grid – capital to commons, distributed to centralized
27 min – not seeing global aspect in ie: transition towns
new book sept 2014:
graphic links to book sections
shared by George on twitter:
I’ve always worked with the flow of information and used the technology in that it conveys information. It is never the technology itself that interested me, it is the human flows.
In the 90s, when the Internet was not yet the web, I was fascinated by the fact that human brains can communicate in real time and delayed time without asking anyone’s permission. I thought it was going to change the world.
I took a two year sabbatical. I went to live in Thailand and I read for two years.
There is a good example in Bologna, Bologna The Regulation for the Care and Regeneration of Urban Commons, which allows citizens to propose improvements collective neighborhood:
These communities interest me more than the combative communities. We obviously need to fight, but the most important is to change production methods. Create political struggles around that, yes, but first you must create a social power. When the world of work is declining, the only thing that can replace him, it is the world of the ordinary.
For me, revolutions are organic. Lots of things are happening in society, but it is not known when they will emerge. Who could have predicted the Occupy movement? It is therefore not focus on these breakpoints. We must build, build, build, build networks, organize to be ready for when chaos occurs, you must already have the solutions.
I believe that after the crisis we are currently experiencing, capitalism can possibly reorganize to a new cycle if it integrates ecology and peer-to-peer. But if it does not include, if not reform, the coming period is likely to be a continual chaos. In my opinion, we must expect a great crisis in 2030-2040. I’m not the only one to say, many parameters converge, including the depletion of natural resources, climate, biodiversity … For now, these problems are still independent, but at some point, they will cause each other.
The good news is we still have a little time to prepare.
ouisharefest 2015 – interview
How peer2peer will change the world
stage transition.. looking for something today that could change the world
too busy – traveling talking
there’s something about being an activist is that its infinite
so.. the thing.. that could change the world… mechanism that perpetuates that ongoingness…. deep enough
need of balance – right now i lost it again – because there’s so much interest
on the – safe the drowning rule. how to make it not dependent on anyone..
7 min – the struggle between managing and not – …. some people have to do this.. create that human connection.. combination of virtual and physical
now we’re going to collaboration first.. and competition w/in that collaboration
oct 2015 – on transition and revolution
while i’m reading this i’m thinking 1\ how smart Michel is.. how in tune with what we’ve done in past .. what’s happening now.. et al.. 2\ perhaps how much verbiage/talking/language is getting in the way of the change we seek.. ie: the need to leapfrog to modeling it.. w/out the needs for words.. if we have the means to really change things – which i believe we do – then why frame it in terms of elections and even competition/cooperation… why not give ourselves a ginormous do-over.. and create the language/communication for that.. fresh. everyday.
not against the knowledge in this piece… sounds spot on. but what if we don’t need it for the change we seek. like – we all just move to a different country.. start fresh.
‘Netarchical’ forms of peer-to-peer infrastructure (net-archy meaning the hierarchy of the network) do not reinvest their profits. Rather, they are a kind of parasitical force contributing to a value crisis in which more and more “use value” is created by the people themselves–even as scarce monetization is exclusively captured by the owners of the network platform. My work is largely predicated on the view that we need to look beyond netarchical organizations and toward platform cooperatives, data cooperatives, and new forms of ethical entrepreneurship.
The important difference is that in peer production, real commons are created by communities that have a huge influence on the production process. By comparison, in the sharing economy we have the instantiation of “peer-to-peer market transactions” through private platforms, which frankly atomize individuals by denying ownership or control of the platform, and inherently isolating people from one another through secret algorithms, etc. .
on partner state: The eminent example is Co-Bologna in Italy and its Regulation for the Care and the Regeneration of the Urban Commons. This turns the state logic around by enabling civic groups in local neighborhoods to work on urban improvement themselves, while the state (federal and municipal) supports this bottom-up process through financing or other infrastructural support.
nov 2015 – platform coop
dec 2015 – This is a short seven-minutes summary of the problems associated with the emergence of commons-based peer production as the next economy.
Mapping the Next System
next economy – 3 institutions emerging:
1\ emergence of global open design communities.. ie: wikipedia, arduino, .. as new human institution
2\ two models.. 1\ extractive from resources/knowledge 2\ generative that coop w/commons
3\ for benefit associations.. new type of econ where knowledge/technique/science is shared… demo solutions…
1\ extractive nature of some of businesses that work around these commons, ie: facebook.. none of monification is plugged back in
3\ lack of funding
1\ converge different models.. sustainability (planet), justice, knowledge.. how can we converge these, ie: open coops …circular econ…
2\ ecosystemic thinking in territorial terms.. ie: mutual aid network in madison wi.. ie: timebanks, credit unions, alt stream of ethical value
3\ generative business models, ie: enspiral – loomio..
4\ de fragmentation through policy.. ie: neighborhood policy w/city as enabling mechanism.. multi stake holder platforms…
5\ funding.. a big paradox.. vc extractive models.. ie: some asking for intellectual property as collateral..
important to unite/coordinate the alternatives..
A conversation between Michel Bauwens and Ivor Stodolsky
constructive spaces.. not so much spaces of resistance.. but …the square i’m working in…open source third spaces ..1\ private 2\ public 3\ cafes… co working centers, hacker spaces..
not directly political.. but day by day remaking the world…
i’m less involved in the confrontational spaces.. and more in spaces working on the long term..
we need more convergence… no doubt we’re mobile.. but not staying.. outlasting the mobilization
the new types of institutions are not there yet..
important for stability and longevity
7 min – in terms of infrastructure.. i think we need to be in spaces like twitter and facebook – because so many are there… but i think there is a 3rd way… loomio.. weiser.. totally open source…collaborative… not competing w/fb et al… because they have pluses..
9 min – 2 things happening at same time.. mainstream going bad… counter reaction.. not that dark.. such a broad steam of people resisting and constructing alternatives… if we focus on the 2nd..
11 min – so many people are doing things.. ie: netherlands… but most aren’t political about it.. but practical…. ie: i want good food
13 min – 1\ mode of production that is open and free 2\ sustainable physical manufacturing 3\ value distribution.. is it fair- we need to synergize these three things..
so that when we are in the square.. we have something to propose… we have working alternatives.. that just need to scale up.. difficulty in scaling up and integrating.. but they already exist..
15 min – traditional politics is about public vs private… this pendulum has been going on for years.. what we didn’t have was this notion of commons… ie: instead of producing to make profit .. you produce as is needed…
this alternative.. based on the commons.. communities creating shared resources…
19 min – how can we disembed commons based peer production from the accumulation of capital.. you have to squarely confront the issue of livelihood… ie: not every one can volunteer all the time…
we need an emancipatory alternative that says.. these things are great but need to be embedded in new ways for livelihood.. if we create our own coops…. our own social economy entities.. then we can start closing that loop…
i’m a commoner… around it we create all kinds of service… that people are willing to pay for eventually…
? why pay
how to link things that are unlinked…. ie: chamber of the commons…
on the need for incubators.. models… this takes time.. but it’s happening..
as events come and go.. we need the long term….
jan 2016 – interview on meaning of life:
What if there is no meaning to life, but the meaning that we give to it?
The very question of the meaning of life has little meaning for me today. I am fully energized and ‘fed’, through my engagement with the multitude of others who are all working concurrently to solve the major systemic issues that are generated by the current dominant system, which combines pseudo-abundance, a false sense of the infinity of the resources provided by nature, thereby destroying the biosphere; and artificial scarcity by imposing limits on human cooperation in science, technology and culture. Peer production does the opposite, so how do we get from the emergence of many grassroots communities, coordinated through global knowledge commons, to systems that can create livelihoods around this, and how can it evolve from the state of emergence, to a full social and economic system?
Cyber Philosopher Michel Bauwens worked at a high level at Belgacom. Until he got a burn-out and slow down wanted to do. “My burnout was useful to come out different.”
On his 42nd Michel had a midlife crisis. ” I still had not done what I really wanted .” He also had a terrible year behind. His father died, his mother had Alzheimer’s disease and his love affair went wrong. “ If everything goes wrong at once you have to remember everything. “
Now Michel is a different man. ”
My burnout took to come out differently. But something you can only say after the fact…Every setback gives resilience to deal with it differently.
On “the blockchain as the new institutional technology that makes the commons scale.” blog.p2pfoundation.net/cryptoeconomy-…
The thing here is that this makes it very cheap to make a community and supply it with infrastructure to manage interactions on a platform,
Ostrom’s key insight: people are good at making up rules to deal with novel situations. They can in this way self-govern (or self-regulate). …
Yet the Ostrom model hinged on small groups, because cheap talk and costly punishment. The problem was that they didn’t scale. Today, traditional issues related to shared common-pool resources—such as the free rider problem or the tragedy of the commons—could be addressed with the implementation of blockchain-based governance, through the adoption of transparent decision-making procedures and the introduction decentralised incentives systems for collaboration and cooperation.
The transparent and decentralised nature of the blockchain makes it easier for small and large communities to reach consensus and implement innovative forms of self-governance
we need to look past the technological change dynamics and the marginal substitution between existing institutional economic forms and realise that what is actually being reinvented here are economies themselves.
An economy is a designed order, as an intended outcome of a firm or a government-planned economy. A catallaxy is an emergent order that results from the divergent goals of many different individuals interacting within a market exchange.
? – why must they/we converge.. and why must it be w/in exchange..
Hayek meant this as a critique of government central planning: you can plan an economy, but never a catallaxy.
agree with that… but also think we need to let go of assumption of market ness… any kind of measurement of transactions.. rather.. let’s coordinate them… w/o any mathematical/or whatever agenda..
What connects Hayek (what decentralization does), Ostrom (how local govt forms), and Buchanan (decision mechs) is that they were all focused, in very different ways, on the problem of how communities coordinate to choose in groups, and thereby create economies. They were all obsessed with social rules, and with rules for making and choosing rules.
The blockchain is the secure, verifiable, trustless (i.e. cryptographically secure) mechanism to record the actions upon the rules.
And right there you have it. The blockchain is doing what prices do in markets, what commands do in firms, and what laws do in governments. It is providing a clear and unambiguous public signal, as a coherent rule-system, to coordinate private action
perhaps that’s not what our souls crave.. perhaps that’s blocking the rhythm of us.. ie: perhaps prices/commands/laws.. are what’s keeping us from us.. so finding something to do it better..? why would we ..?
blockchain.. as facilitator/connector of curiosities… let’s trust that. let’s stop measuring/judging everything..
The new economics of the blockchain is that it is a new technology for making new economies. That’s less like the invention of steam or electricity, and more like the invention of private property or government.”
what if blockchain is to help us dance better w/entropy ness
“Stop the Nonsensus! (Nonsense Consensus):Systems will never scale if you require global consensus for local actions by independent agents
perhaps design flaw lies in not realizing/acting upon this opportunity to disengage from consensus .. (jo freeman understood – perhaps – if i’m understanding right. and.. broken record here.. i know. but .. can’t not.)
That adds an overhead of ridiculous complexity for something which needs to follow the principle of pushing intelligence and agency to the edges rather than center.
exactly… to any consensus or measurement or validation..
Bitcoin and blockchains are built around authorized tokens embedded in every transaction/record, which embeds unnecessary complexity and limitations for scalability into every interaction. Tokens are not what makes a decentralized system work,
cryptographic signatures and self-validating data structures are.
i don’t know… why does anything have to be validated..? ie: if we stop to validate.. that takes our time.. and then others spend time looking at our validation and us at there’s. perhaps better to just let the tech/blockchain.. leave a trail (unvalidated in the sense we use/know today)
But today we have self-validating data structures like hash-chains and Merkle-trees which leave evidence of tampering by breaking structural integrity, cryptographic hash, or counterparty signatures when the data is altered. This makes it possible to distribute the storage and management of data and ensure that the people holding it can’t tamper with it.
what if we make this.. not even about not being able to tamper with.. and more about.. not having a desire to tamper with.. ie: gershenfeld something else law. seems we’d save a ton of time/energy with that. (may sound crazy impossible but isn’t trying to resist tampering moreso..? – starfish ness…)
you could be an authority to show your own account balance, yet not be able to tamper with your account history.
imagine the time/energy saved… if we weren’t dealing with any type of account balance. perhaps we just try.. a nother way.. with no measuring of transactions.
What you need to distribute in a system of collective intelligence is the ability to distribute reliable processing according to shared agreements. *Consensus then becomes something used for to ensure the integrity of the processing, rather than the medium upon which processing is executed. This approach, lets you confirm that your copy of the process is valid, so you can rely on it to work according to the agreed upon rules and proceed authoritatively without having to wait for the rest of the network to validate, verify and update itself with your state.
*or perhaps consensus is no longer needed.. tech connects us.. rather than makes us efficiently decide the same thing/rule. we have the capability for 7 billion curiosities dancing together daily. why would we hold that up with consensus. 95% of dna junk dna (entropy ness et al) if we spend time labeling/deciding it so…. perhaps instead we spend our energy listening to and being its rhythm.
One of the beautiful outcomes from this is such a massive reduction in the processing and storage requirements that it becomes feasible to run a full node on a mobile phone instead of requiring specialized mining hardware.”
mbauwens on how peer production trends could signal a shift in value regimes (1 hour video) youtube.com/watch?v=CltUp1…
3 min – i took a 2 yr sabbatical to find out what i could do today to change society.. decided to spend 2 years reading about phase transitions…
4 min – one system i used… adam fisk… structure of social life: basically at all times… 4 main ways to allocate resources..
1\ equality matching – the gift econ… mostly in tribal/clan based societies..thru mutual obligation.. give something .. creates a debt… then they want to give back more in order to restore the equality
2\ authority ranking – class society..imperial systems.. plunder than redistribute according to a hierarchical ranking
3\ market pricing – where we’re living today
4\ communal shareholding – basically what we do in the family.. not charging kids for what you do for them.. don’t expect anything directly in return… a whole.. family seen as a totality… worked in early history w/small nomadic bands..
8 min – another .. re enforces this frame – the structure of world history kapolyani – mode
a: reciprocity of gift (nation)
b: ruling and protection
c: commodity exchange
d: transcends/integrates other 3
9 min – he says reason capitalism is so strong is it’s 3 in 1 modes of production
10 min – until now – talking about multi modal world… but exist under a dominant mode…
12 min – if you look at transitions..
following Yochai‘s ideas about peer production.. a new modality which is marginal.. moving to the center of value creation.. thru that .. we now have commoners
transition.. trying to subsume market and state to its own values.. one study by tina demoore – belgium commons historian.. ie: i always assumed commons were always there.. no .. emerged in 12 cent in 70 yrs time.. guilds emerged in 70yrs time..11 cent..
16 min – so many people involved in change today.. you do not see the map.. just the red arrows..
18 min – seed forms coming together as capitalism
19 min – no value being created in civil society.. it’s what they do w the surplus from the market… money has to come from market.. way we see value creation under capitalism
value creation in peer production it’s contributors contributing to a commons…
20 min – allocation of resources doesn’t happen through market pricing nor hierarchical decision making.. but through massive mutual coordination – stigmergy.. you know what to do because you receive signals from your peers
21 min – netarchical capitalism – a transvestment of value from one mode to another
22 min –
1\ productive communities
2\ people in this sphere are more happy than people who are not.. ie: would continue doing what they do w/o getting paid
24 min – so how do you survive.. make money.. in peer production
emergent p2p under cognitive capitalism: peer production; netarchical corp platform; exclusionary financialization
27 min – ie: enspiral – at core.. 2 commons: loomio – open source decision making; cobudgeting –
31 min – on capital and regeneration requirements.. reciprocity based license.. new form of property 1/4 founder, funders, users, workers…. et al… everybody can use our knowledge.. but if want to make money.. have to get license… to reintro in market.. market of reciprocity.. ie: las indias, enspiral, …
33 min – for benefit structure that manages… looks like ngo (legally is) but doesn’t work like one… ie: have a problem in world.. healthcare in war zones.. send funds there..; fundraise for wikipedia knowledge… all contributions there.. so a social signaling system that allows people to matched knowledge/skills
hosting life bits would do that.. just w/o money/measurement
36 min – system doesn’t tell you what’s good for you… deciding what value is.. is the real struggle.. that’s what these communities are doing…in our community we will decide what has value
we could do that.. for every person on the globe.. let’s try that with blockchain.. cut out tons of B (ie: anything to do w/money/measurement)
38 min – the secret plan…. i’m not even interested anymore.. i’m doing something else…
40 min – people are responding in fragmented ways.. ie: paul hawken
41 min – all these things happening at the same time.. but fragmented.. so open source circle econ is strategy proposal to converge sustainability and open….solidarity with open…
diff patterns which exist but are not yet reinforcing each other..to reinforce that multi modality... allows revival of neo nomadic conditions..
42 min – ie: in enspiral they mutualize their mortgages..
43 min – we see future (slide): civil society, ethical econ, partner state
reversal of idea of a state that stand outside and provides services.. peer production doesn’t solve ineq in given system… so need partner state for that
46 min – q&a
Yochai: a version of this that ducks conflict… fed up w fighting .. we’ll build our own.. but everyone of transitions described is accompanied by massive bloodshed….where are the battles…
48 min – Michel: i see 3 big dangers… fascism/sovietism – totalizing state form; neoliberalism/anoarchism; communism – only horizontal…. my view.. we take conflict very seriously in p2p foundation
1:04 – wikipedia growth stops after the construction of deletionism… when decided to have an abundant.. editors know less than contributors… w/in day or two .. 15 codes… if not full time… and have support.. you lose… open source ethos.. has been severely damaged.. so entrenched not going to change anymore.. so wikipedia will probably become more professional
1:07 – if you only depend on volunteering – you have to create livelihoods..
1:09 – i think only way to get to sustainable society is through peer production… ie: w market.. forced to buy.. mutualize knowledge/infrastructure.. everybody knows it all.. i claim we can have … 20/80… 89% less matter/energy to produce 80% less of what we have now.. it’s through the knowledge sharing we can save world from destruction.. for me.. this infrastructure is really vital……
1:11 – on maintaining scarcities because of business interests…
@P2P_FoundationA Synthesis of the Findings of P2P Theory: Ten Years After bit.ly/1NIZMtk
1/ network: commons2/ market: ethical3/ govt: for benefit (for all people/ nature)[..]1/ productive (N- network),,, contribute to commons2/ ethical (M- market).. based on needs/livelihood3/ beneficial (I- institution).. doesn’t direct.. but allows space resources to happen
2016 – the value crisis of cog capitalism
3 min – p2p – research people practicing p2p production, governance and ownership .. compared to capitalism and cog capitalsim.. a footnote to marx – capitalism creates system w new class of workers.. socializes production.. and then they take over and change production…
12 min – 1500 began commodification
13 min – cog capitalism: 1\ value is extracted no longer direct in physical production but through knowledge control of physical production.. 2\ shift of financialization.. exploitation through credits more than labor.. 3\ privatization of knowledge… control of knowledge through ip (internet protocol)
14 min – to me cog capitalism – mckenzie wark – hacker manifesto… amazing book – makes thesis which i think is mistaken.. he says between hacker (uses knowledge but doesn’t own means of production) and vectoral (control new means of production) class.. i think this is exactly what has change today… 1973 – microchip…basis of neoliberalism.. this first phase of networks.. controlled by large companies.. which starts re organizing global supply chains… since 1993 – browser, www,.. new situation.. creators of knowledge own own means of production… some call this platform capitalism.. i would call this netarchical capitalism…
19 min – networks which allow p2p communication/relationship… permissionless… so can self-organize… about all value production.. not tech determinism..more.. a new feel of possibility…
20 min – people who find/develop tech.. have own agency/control…
21 min – ie: finland 90% want to engage in sustainable design..that’s ..their agency their social imaginary.. however.. only 2% can engage in that… more and more young people have diff value system… so have agency.. and a social imaginary.. which is not compatible with command and control.. and profit.. if you have no affordance.. no choise.. if have affordance.. can exit that system… to invest your imaginary in new solutions….
22 min – so not about doing what you want.. but about wanting to do what you want and then fighting/influencing the reality you encounter….produsers – with s
23 min – value sensitive design – diff forces fighting for influence..
24 min – netarchical capitalism: the shift from capitalism that is based on negating neg externalities to a form of capitalism that is based on exploiting pos externalities.. a big shift… historically capitalism has destroyed the commons.. by enclosure of the land… a machine for enclosure… now.. googles/facebooks do opposites.. they are empowering… promoting/using commons.. and they capture value from the commons.. ie: uber.. where peers create value.. not paying wages… become hyper competitive..
27 min – also – destroy amount of labor.. so destroy overal capacity for profit making..
28 min – value crisis.. more have value to create used value themselves.. capacity of system to monetize this.. only grows linearly… with exponential rise in creation through commons..
29 min – distributed labor (trebor) .. income lower.. destroying purchasing power..
31 min – so what is p2p tech inside netarchical capitalsim: a form of tech which is p2p only at the front end.. everything in back end under control of owners of platform….
32 min – 2nd form… distributed platform… ie: bitcoin.. based on profit mode.. make easy to create coins in beginning and algo makes it more and more difficult to create.. so value of coins go up.. so people who buy early can sell to others and extract rent… for speculative activity..
33 min – blockchain: universal ledger.. universal cloud of accounting.. fully distributive.. but belongs to bitcoin design… what blockchain wants to achieve: trustless ness… blockchain is opp of … universalize and scale trust.. it says.. trust tech…
35 min – dream of blockchain.. fully autonomous individuals that can freely exchange with others.. w/o having to go through 3rd parties..
slide at 35 min –
37 min – 2005 – starts exponential rather than linear growth for self-organizingness
today.. there is no local anymore… always a global aspect… on using global for the local…
40 min – capacity for global org.. ie’s of it happening all over.. invisible.. but huge.. music and half way houses… on beaches…
41 min – an argument that douglas rushkoff (life encorporate) is making… renaissance… of centralized thinking/orgs.. today coming out of that… associated with p2p .. social features related to medieval..
43 min – on distributed (individual can connect to anyone w/o permission – hubs exist but voluntary) vs decentralized (diff power systems that compete.. still centralized w/in.. ie: airport system in u.s. – have to use given hubs)…centralized (from top)
45 min – if want value shift to occur.. need to org at global level (slide): sustainability, openness, solidarity… problem is w/in each of these there is fragmentation..
47 min – so we are creating events/actions/dialogues to create bridges through those system responses… free (to share) fair systems..
48 min – open source circle (waste of one system becomes production of another) econ.. once have open.. circle becomes natural...
50 min – stigmergy – what do we need to do for physical production..? we need to translate stimergy.. to supply chains and accounting
52 min – every big shift has been marked by a big shift in how we see accounting..
imagine if we see it as irrelevant..? energy surplus.. no?
class struggle .. the capacity to determine what value is about…..
53 min – p2p looking at how to change accounting systems… ie: lafarge wi.. creating value flow software
55 min – issue.. same situation as 28th cent.. more capital than workers.. so craft have to rent machines from capital et al… and sell back to capital.. no commodified labor… people can’t survive on own.. so have to move to cities…
57 min – how can we create self-reproduction..
58 min – what needs to be .. 1\ coop econ needs to converge and support … or … commoners need to create open coops… maintains self as community… 2\ avoid seepage in value capture… copyleft..(hacked system to allow sharing of knowledge) .. the more communism the license.. the more capitalistic the practice….. move from liberal licenses to social licenses.. ie: to each according to contribution
1:01 – i propose to surround this cybercommunist sphere.. with socialist market sphere.. ie: platform coops..not extractive.. co dependent.. ie: internet of ownership.. [everything i’m saying is happening]
1:04 – a commons friendly market form… a pure stigmergic sphere… using code/knowledge/design… around that open coop system.. reproducing these shared resources… moving capacity for mutual coordination from immaterial to material… in a mutual coord econ
1:05 – commons self org at political level.. not always parties.. ie: pirate party (iceland).. barcelona – it’s possible.. i’d rather propose.. org selves around 2 orgs 1\ assembly of commons – orgs citizens – produces social charter 2\ chamber of commons – orgs livelihood… ie: france, belgium, chicago…
1:07 – commons transition plan – have to influence political forces.. ie: flock in ecuador ie: ed/civic/et al commons.. for each of these.. look at enabling practices.. ie: if don’t have open text books.. can’t have this..
1:09 – immaterial: ecuador has free software decree
1:10 – create open accreditation systems… govt allows to hire people who have gone through that pipeline
1:11 – sanders/corbyn – love them.. but if they win.. will just do what we should have been doing 30 yrs ago.. no plans for commons..
1:12 – sci fi – clue .. if want to know where ideas come from.. mine is.. diamond age.. need to org at global level.. econ and politically.. idea is to create interconnections at global level
1:14 – q&a
commons and property ness
What this tell us is that actual property-based and law-based protections are absolutely vital for the commons, and hence, the commons should not be counter-posed in a simple way to private or state property as non-property, but rather as a new form of property.
Hence, the commons is also property, while at the same time being some form of non-property. In the same way, the collective territorial common good in a commons economy, requires a state, that is at the same time a non-state because it is no longer separate from society. Commons property belongs to a collective or to all, and in this sense may be non-property, but it is at the same time ‘property’ because the constituent parts can be withdrawn.
thinking gray play law.. freedom to quit
aren’t they the same thing..?
@mbauwens – : no they aren’t … bitcoin is a good example of the former, faircoin of the latter
so via Michel.. bitcoin like networked individualism:
Bitcoin is an innovative payment network and a new kind of money.
Bitcoin uses peer-to-peer technology to operate with no central authority or banks; managing transactions and the issuing of bitcoins is carried out collectively by the network. Bitcoin is open-source; its design is public, nobody owns or controls Bitcoin and everyone can take part. Through many of its unique properties, Bitcoin allows exciting uses that could not be covered by any previous payment system.
and faircoin like cooperative commons:
All current cryptocurrencies require you to buy the coins, either through mining or through exchanges. This gives the advantage to those who already have capital and mining equipment, and can afford risky investments. FairCoin is the first project where the coins are not bought but rather distributed equally between everyone who wants them regardless of their current financial status, and promotes equality.
FairCoin is a crypto currency like Bitcoin. It is a descendant of Peercoin, meaning the block generation is done by PoW/PoS hybrid.
he ends with:
networked individuals working toward common purpose & universal human interests
isn’t that saying they (ni and coop commons) are all tied in to same thing..?
ie: a nother way via hosting life bits (both/all to me -which seems the point.. has to be something that takes in everything.. commoning wouldn’t work without each individual being authentic.. and each individual won’t be authentic without coop/community working/attaching..)
add bee page…Loretta Lynch…
how I feel.. ie w Michel…
no one asking me anything ..assuming I don’t know…
when I ask them… it’s based on assumed languages/verbiages/defns… where wikipedia (and hopefully hosting life bits) really does well.. linking all the words to intended meaning
Michel Bauwens on the Blockchain – P2P Foundation ow.ly/Y9n9T
The Blockchain as a Trojan Horse – Michel Bauwens – COALA’s Blockchain Workshops – Sydney 2015
4 min – on bike sharing experiments.. failed at first.. intention now matched with tech.. that allows to know where bikes are.. so choose bike sharing instead of ownership.. call it p2p exchange econ
blockchain could be tool to bring down transaction cost of human collab to a level where civic self-org can become dominant way of value creation… but that doesn’t solve social justice…
or make it irrelevant..
not enough to have a level playing field in distributed system… ie: bitcoin higher rate of ineq… if don’t look at counter measures.. get.. rent extraction ness
8 min – a lot of people creating value.. but not a way to distribute..
hunter gathering lasts 10s of 1000s years.. on egalitarian ism
11 min – commons econ may be best chance to do this at scale
14 min – centralized control of p2p tech..
15 min – it’s us that is value of fb.. and none is re invested in community.. it’s the tragedy of the commons of our age
16 min – rent extraction schemes capturing the value of human coop
17 min – more and more people joining open contributory systems.. but forms of capture value are problematic..
18 min – what p2p is working on.. instead of extraction.. can we find generative ness..
ie: hosting life bits..
20 min – commons we know in europe didn’t always exist.. came in 11th cent.. 12th cent massive creation of guilds.. what happened is what’s happening today.. emergence of ethical.. ie: enspiral – commons is loomio…. at core of value creation.. productive communities (paid or unpaid… extractive or generative)… another cobudgeting..
why budget in a commons..?
22 min – common tagline – stuff that mattters..
23 min – neo guilds/tribes.. what kinds of tech/infrastructure are they using..
1\ contributary accounting system… 1/2 time free translation..
25 min – based on fair social contract.. ie: primavera – backfeed – a blockchain based attempt w tokens … contributary system..
26 min – license .. more communistic license.. more capitalistic the practice.. ie: ibm dominates.. immediately big players dominate.. we propose.. copyfair.. license that allows full sharing.. but makes commercialization conditional on contribution…
29 min – fastest growing independent entrepreneurs.. but also getting poorest fastest.. no one taking care of them.. extending security et al..
developing new ways of solidarity.. money based
33 min – potential of commons based peer production.. solves problems on condition that we create generative business models around it.. then.. sustainability issue.. so blockchain..but not part of solution.. part of problem..
34 min – moving to open contrib system.. puts things back on right way.. if we have commons we have no artificial scarcity..
35 min – we always design for planned obsolescence
38 min – here’s the dream – stigmergy
39 min – what pricing is for markets..what decision making is for planning.. mutual coord becomes thing for commons..
light global.. heavy local…
40 min – not just utopia.. a matter of survival..
last suggestion.. revolutionary …can we do open blockchain based supply chains.. bring down transactions costs.. of massive production on global scale..
48 – young people revolting against hierarchical institutions.. managerial class give young people rock n roll.. but exploit manufacturing to global south.. result.. surplus value no longer produced in global south.. but captured by financial institutions and not coming back.. solutions.. surplus goes back to people actually creating it..
blockchain can save 20 bill a year in infrastructure cost and tap 5 bill ..3rd tribe.. humanity.. maybe we may need blockchain to do better/faster/cheaper
perhaps to help us disengage from measuring transactions.. validating people.. perhaps then we’d get the leap to betterness our souls crave..
44 min – meritocracy
47 min – balance between inclusion and efficiency.. have to be at boundary between commons and market.. that’s where we can put in fairness that balances out meritocracy.. this is something that is understudied.. the counterantidisemidiation group.. what tools can we insert to create that fairness… this is the kind of thing we have to work on..
50 min – embedding rules for equity in infrastructure.. something we don’t think about today.. we just build hoping things will get ok and they don’t.. a good ie: enspiral.. because have commitment to … equity ness
54 min – enspiral even though wants to do good and does.. wants to support community.. ie: city is now key area where this is happening… cities acting very actively.. ie: neighborhood collectives to impose policies… city becomes a partner city a for benefit association.. here’s what could happen – imagine best neighborhoods with smartest people… where poor neighborhoods .. don’t have time to do this.. so if just leave it like that.. so still need holistic mech’s..
mech simple enough ness…
more difficult to do perverse politics in city.. because effects of ineq .. so apparent to everyone..
so – ie: why denver using homeless money to sweep homeless..? begs we go deeper.. disengage from money/measuring/validating.. gershenfeld something else law
Peter Vander Auwera (@petervan) tweeted at 5:32 AM – 17 Oct 2016 :
Bauwens @mbauwens Explains the Great Value-Shift of Our Time – Commons Strategies https://t.co/J1lVMy1306(http://twitter.com/petervan/status/787979695895740416?s=17)
The key challenge ahead, said Bauwens, is finding ways for commoners to make a living from supporting the commons, rather than just volunteering their time. The model for commons-based peer production has been proven in such open source innovations as the Wikispeed car and the Wikihouse design plans. But people still need to earn a living and “capital for the commons” still needs to be raised to finance collaborative production. This is the next frontier.
perhaps.. next frontier/key challenge.. is finding a nother way for 7 bn people to live w/o making/earning a living..
me to michel:
been working on a means for all of us to leap (for blank’s sake) to a nother way to live (that entails all of us so as not to overburden any of us – ie: model rather than write/speak/et-al.. so model.. begs a design that spreads on its own.. exponentially fast.. making writing/speaking/marketing/violent-revolution about it.. irrelevant)
Blockchain: how it will transform our economy, society and the internet itself
Michel starts around 25 min
history of trust.. started in 1\ small nomadic bands.. then settled in 2\ sedentary tribes.. trust because you know each other.. and unit is less than 150.. that’s peer to peer..
why do people behave here.. you know you’re being watched…
27 min – if in 3\ very big society… why behave..? if religious.. someone is watching us all – second big period of trust
28 min – 4\ then nation state.. and start talking about big brother.. state is watching us
w/internet .. 5\ return to nomadic structures/lifestyles… people liberated from ie: one job for life..we have tech – internet – which brings down price for sharing.. interacting.. more and more linked to global/virtual territories.. based on affinity/values..
30 min – i see blockchain in this context.. scaling small group dynamics at global scale.. we can make very complex things w networks.. that govts/big corps can’t do on own.. by allowing small groups to coord.. on global scale
31 min – i see block chain as part of that.. universal ledger.. we use one accounting system everyone can see.. instituting that p2p trust level..
32 min – also blockchain.. very linked to accounting system.. societies have always had accounting systems..
not buying that..
33 min – basis of state based systems is a new form of accounting..
34 min – we’ve reached end of road of extracted value machine.. so a social dislocation going very fast..
35 min – other part – climate change et al.. so we need to transfer to generative approach.. so working w/generative coalitions.. stuff that matters.. ie: enspiral/loomio.. open source/shared….
37 min – moving from linear supply systems.. to shift in accounting systems.. to open
for that.. going to need . . a universal ledger.. so where blockchain comes in
38 min – questions i worry about.. tech design always depends on your values.. but ie: fb capturing co created value.. but not re embursing to all
39 min – so need blockchain to create trust.. ie: assumption of making us all equal traders.. but it’s a monopoly based on scarcity.. so today bitcoin more unequal than our current money
41 min – ending up with system.. where everyone is a little capitalist w each other… ie: airbnb good.. if you have an asset.. ie: house.. but… 90% of airbnb are big orgs.. so 10% of people… great .. but real issue.. what happens when you don’t have an asset.. prices/rents go up.. and people w/o assets will have to leave neighborhood.. this happened in barcelona
43 min – if system only based on assets/trading..then property based democracy.. so design of tech matters.. whether you choose 100% market or mixed.. you have to design blockchain diff
45 min – kind of p2p i favor is p2p commons: self org to make something together.. ie: linux free software; arduino; upsat – satellite; wikihouse/speed; …. stats on this.. since 2005 in netherlands…2009 in flanders.. exponential rise in citizen based self org..so happening today..already..
46 min – other way is p2p markets.. enable people to trade.. share econ is misleading.. no sharing.. we call this .. platform coops.. in market place there is no commons.. but platform could be the commons.. we’re all trading.. but we could own the trading platform ourselves.. create.. like an uber coop.. types of drivers.. co own paltform/app..
47 min – debates/issues in blockchain type community.. distributed autonomous org.. through smart contracts.. rules.. then start working together on global scale w people you don’t know.. problem is .. these people don’t believe in democracy/governance.. so no mech for that.. so.. at some point.. some individual stole 75 bn dollars.. now a problem.. because if don’t have governance… then only choice left is authoritarian..
not a problem if no money..
1:23 – if we design our systems based on such a deformed view of what humans beings are then we also make people behave like that.. and that’s the danger..
thought this was labgov too.. but i guess not..?
This project in the city of Ghent, where Michel Bauwens and the P2P Foundation will undertake a ‘commons research’ project next spring, is based on the cooperation of design students, experts, and citizen participation: This cal was originally published here. Photo by blavandmaster
it requires a reorganisation of our modes of production and exchange.[..][
Our proposal at the P2P Foundation is threefold at the micro-economic stage: first, we need to build productive communities around our commons, and declare our value sovereignty; this means deciding to distribute value differently, ‘generatively’; this requires a second step, creating generative entrepreneurial coalitions, so that we are commoners adding to the commons, but also cooperators making a living. And this requires also of course building meta-networks, between them.
Obviously, this takes time, and it took capital 400 years to consolidate itself with all the institutions it needed. The problem of course, is: we don’t have that time, but perhaps, because of the acceleration of learning through mutual networks, we can achieve it in 40.
I follow the traditional definition of the commons, i.e. a shared resource, managed by a community according to its own norms. There are plenty of physical commons in the Global South, i.e. 85% of Africans still depend on them, less so in the West, but there are in fact more than we think. In Galicia, Spain, one third of the land is still commons and run by commons associations. But today, we see the explosion of digital commons (shared knowledge resources are the basis of one sixth of GDP in the US economy), and urban commons. There has been a tenfold increase of citizen initiatives in the Flanders in the last ten years, and a similar exponential explosion in the Netherlands, and many of these initiatives involve creating commons as part of their practice. Guy Standing’s book on the precariat, has documented the deep linkage of precarious workers with networks characterised by commons.
we need to build new layers of deliberative democracy and participation, on top of improved representative democracies
Representative democracy needs to exist to cover wider territorial and functional units, but we are at the threshold where mere representation is no longer enough, and so this is the time to augment it with new techniques, to be experimented with, and this may involve participatory, deliberative, liquid feedback type, lotteries etc.
You know the analogy of imaginal cells in the caterpillar; the cells who identify with the caterpillar are in panic, because the system is dying, but the cells who identify with the butterfly and carry its DNA know that it is a transition. Similarly today, we see seed forms emerging to solve the systemic crises, and the P2P Foundation is dedicated to observing them, analysing them and to think through where this can lead us, and be a catalyst for that change.
Original Tweet: https://twitter.com/ROAR_Magazine/status/819625741562314752
P2P is a type of social relations in human networks;
P2P is also a technological infrastructure that makes the generalization and scaling up of such relations possible;
P2P thus enables a new mode of production and exchange;
P2P creates the potential for a transition to an economy that can be generative towards people and nature.
We believe that these four aspects will profoundly change human society
the P2P relational dynamic — strengthened by particular forms of technological capacities — may become the dominant way of allocating the necessary resources for human self-reproduction, and thus replace capitalism as the dominant form.
On the one side, for example, we can consider the capitalism of Facebook, Uber or Bitcoin. On the other, we can look at the commons-oriented models of Wikipedia or free/open-source software projects.
That said, we argue that as long as peer producers or commoners cannot engage in their own self-reproduction outside of capital accumulation, it remains a proto-mode of production, not a full one.
the new class of commoners cannot rely on capitalist investment and practices. They must use skillful means to render commons-based peer production more autonomous from the dominant political economy. E
we should strive to escape the situation in which capitalists co-opt the commons, and head towards a situation in which the commons capture capital, and make it work for its own development.
This proposed strategy of reverse cooptation has been called “transvestment” by telekommunists Dmytri Kleiner and Baruch Gottlieb. Transvestment describes the transfer of value from one modality to another. In our case this would be from capitalism to the commons. Thus transvestment strategies aim to help commoners become financially sustainable and independent. Such strategies are being developed and implemented by commons-oriented entrepreneurial coalitions such as the Enspiral network or Sensorica.
feb 2017 – representation is no longer enough
we need to organise ourselves so that the ‘value’ of our work can be re-invested in our livelihoods, communities and resources. This is why it can never be a purely defensive game, or even trying to get more of the piece of the pie, but it requires a reorganisation of our modes of production and exchange.
mainly.. stop measuring them..
Free knowledge is hugely important in this context, because under capitalism, we treat rare resources as if they were infinite, and we treat abundant resources, as if they were scarce. So we destroy the planet, but withhold the knowledge necessary to solve the problems thus created.
commons work is driven ‘intrinsically’, and so there is a danger, that incentivising may actually ‘crowd out’ commoning behaviour to replace it with competition for scarce tokens.
huge – 10 day cares ness
The problem is that after 200 years of the second model, the primary areas of our life, like school and work, are not democratic, and so the basic problem is that we expect democratic behaviour from people (citizens / residents) who have basically never exercised it. This is one reason I favour the commons model, because it is based on self-governing communities, so it is a training school for democracy like no other.
OSB: When you say ‘the commons model’ what exactly do you mean? Where can we see a commons model acting as “a training ground for democracy like no other”?
MB: I follow the traditional definition of the commons, i.e. a shared resource, managed by a community according to its own norms. There are plenty of physical commons in the Global South, i.e. 85% of Africans still depend on them, less so in the West, but there are in fact more than we think. In Galicia, Spain, one third of the land is still commons and run by commons associations. But today, we see the explosion of digital commons (shared knowledge resources are the basis of one sixth of GDP in the US economy), and urban commons. There has been a tenfold increase of citizen initiatives in Flanders in the last ten years, and a similar exponential explosion in the Netherlands, and many of these initiatives involve creating commons as part of their practice. Guy Standing’s book on the precariat, has documented the deep linkage of precarious workers with networks characterised by commons.
The innovation of peer production moreover, which is now actively pursued in the Italian model promoted by LabGovand LabSus, is the realisation that *not everybody has to decide on everything, we simply have no time to be involved in everything at the personal level, but to give privileged space to the already engaged citizens, with the appropriate control mechanisms by other stakeholders, including ‘society’ as a whole.
is it that *not everybody has to decide everything..? or that we don’t really have all the decision we keep thinking we have.. because i don’t believe in rep ing.. (that’s why i’m reading this interview.. the title)..
we need to build new layers of deliberative democracy and participation, on top of improved representative democracies, which can also include new lottery systems for such presentation, as for example presented in
democracy has to be first of all a practice that is integrated in our lives, not something just like an election, which is like electing which elite is going to govern us (election = elite, both words have the same roots, and the greeks saw elections as the aristocratic principle and the lottery as the democratic principle); the commons, defined as shared resources that are governed by communities according to their own rules and norms, are a good way to achieve this, i.e. as we learn and work, we practice democracy.
*Representative democracy needs to exist to cover wider territorial and functional units, but we are at the threshold where mere representation is no longer enough, and so this is the time to **augment it with new techniques, to be experimented with, and this may involve participatory, deliberative, liquid feedback type, lotteries etc.
perhaps if we experiment with hosting-life-bits.. augmentation of rep ness will become irrelevant..
public consensus always oppresses someone
You know the analogy of imaginal cells in the caterpillar; the cells who identify with the caterpillar are in panic, because the system is dying, but the cells who identify with the butterfly and carry its DNA know that it is a transition. Similarly today, we see seed forms emerging to solve the systemic crises, and the P2P Foundation is dedicated to observing them, analysing them and to think through where this can lead us, and be a catalyst for that change.
Michel 3 month research in ghent – commons city of future
author of p2p toward post capitalist society: http://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/With_P2P_Towards_a_Post-Capitalist_Society
the original Flemish title for the book is “De Wereld Redden”, which translates to “Save the World” in English
the following short chapter summaries were written for the purpose of presentation, and are not translated book excerpts. An English translation of the book has not yet been produced
Save the world is based on a 12hr interview by former journalist Jean Lievens with Michel Bauwens, and is divided into six ch
Chapter 1: The Economy of P2P – based on passionate production..has tendency to outperform traditional businesses. .. new form of collab, sharing en producing
Chapter 2, the politics of P2P – find progressive partners to collab on building a program which defends/promotes interests of immaterial/material commons..role of state..needs to transform from welfare to partner
Chapter 3: P2P and spirituality – Tribal religious forms like animism and shamanism didn’t have developed hierarchical structures, as they arose within a social framework of egalitarian relationships relying on kinship
Chapter 4: the Philosophy of P2P – truth needs to be constructed contributively, and every object needs to be approached from as many angles and perspectives as possible
Chapter 5: the P2P Foundation – history/methodology ..as new kind of ‘collective organic intellectual’
Chapter 6: a Biography of Michel Bauwens – evolution of his thinking about social change and seeing P2P as leverage for achieving this change
Appendix; The Story of the book – Michel Bauwens and Jean Lievens met at the Free University of Brussels in the latter half of the nineteen-seventies, where they were active in the student movement. More than three decades later, the ideas of P2P brought them together again. Now in their fifties and confronted with a broken system that threatens the survival of the human species, they consider the transition towards a P2P society to be the way out of the present crisis
In this sense we urgently need formidable thinkers who are able to both keenly analyse the current state of affairs and to develop concepts and resources that facilitate the collective construction of a different world. In this book Michel Bauwens vigorously fulfils this task
His argument, which is, in turn, provocative and stimulating, is that the way people relate to one another in horizontal networks facilitates a form of self-organisation, without authority, in the creation of common value that is more productive than can be achieved by private companies or official organisations. A good example is Wikipedia, the product of the efforts of millions of citizens across the world that has rendered privately edited encyclopedias redundant.
on fb being about *exchange value: profit.. “**Why not consider social media a form of public service?” He does not share the postmodern vision of knowledge workers guaranteeing themselves a career by virtue of their talent and their laptops. Even if a flexible career is aligned with peer production, ***such a society can only be stable with a guaranteed basic income.
This vision of a post-capitalist future enables the prospect of a movement away from a model where the market price dominates, as is the case today, towards a model where sharing in-common *has more weight. While we are currently working in organisations that operate in a system based on competition, this is a vision of a system in which collaboration is the dominant logic and where, in this context, **competition is based on merit.
*this partial thinking is killer
or we seize control of the direction of these networks for ourselves.”
begs we go bolder/deeper.. and disengage from all irrelevants.. focus only on ie: mate basic needs.. by using tech/mech to facil chaos of 7 bn people’s daily curiosity (trusting/assuming good et al).. as the day [aka: not part\ial.. for (blank)’s sake…]
Fernando Suárez Müller:
main alt ..found in the idea of collab commons ..some proposals that are quite recent ..three of them: peer by Michel Bauwens, convivialist by Alain Caillé and common-good by Christian Felber…..philosophy of Bauwens is an integral philosophy based on complexity theory and forms of holism…
economic orientation towards the other cannot be explained using the idea of homo economicus, as this is based on private interests..longing for the other is a value in itself, and as such is always present in our being. The wrong idea of homo economicus could only originate because people are equipotential.
very much mirrors idea of koinonía ..org ing our social system in way which every individual can freely engage capacities/talents for sake of the collective good..econ based on inner motivation..*work must be based on free choice.
Bauwens also acknowledges the basic necessity of hierarchical structures inside organizations, provided that these are based on *meritocratic achievements. Only then can these hierarchies be said to be horizontal
reading p2p and human evolution.. on your happy day
2017 – ghent
Michel fb share
the first five mintes explain how prefigurative patterns find themselves to form substituting eco-systems.
Relaxed and explanatory conversation about the main foundations of the p2p/commons approach:
(I usually don’t like to see myself speaking but I think one is different because of the good conditions in which it took place, a one to one deep conversaation with the brilliant film-maker Ilias Marmaras)
recirculated on the occasion of the ongoing commonsfest in athens
An interview (32 min) on the Commons with Michel Bauwens, November 2014 in Athens.
3 min – crisis in old system.. reinvent ideologies..
5 min – create for common good.. and.. part of coop for own livelihood
what if no need to assure livelihood..
6 min – commons – a natural thing to do.. not something the system can stop..t
8 min – the idea of revolution.. a phase transition.. from one logic to another.. as we go.. become great contradiction with existing system.. can’t predict how
9 min – at some point contradiction will lead to more radical change..t
12 min – i am a commoner.. but if i still need to make a living.. surface value not people but w companies..
my idea – common coop.. co producing commons.. all open.. working for everyone.. everything can be re used..
13 min – phyle – global ecosystem that create livelihood for commons in their communities.. t
imagining us not needing to ‘create livelihood’ .. if we are all free.. and can just be one.. get back to our interconnected dance
14 min – working w communities to make it independent from capitalism.. vision of new society..
15 min – the socialization we need where we can create a commons
20 min – key – a way to deal with the state.. how to archticulate the public and the commons..
has to be all of us..
21 min – to make everyone as a real equal citizen.. maybe consider income as basic right.. because everyone contributes..
23 min – today we have an exodus from labor to independent communities.. recreating law.. rules.. now work in micro communities can re think global system.. can come from re imagining/ re connecting w commons law from before..
24 min – law is a slow recognition of social realities..
25 min – flok – can we change the economy of equator.. from finite/extractive.. to infinite.. around shared/open fields of knowledge..
so learning from indigenous farmers.. and.. benefitting from open knowledge from whole world..
ie: how to recognize informal knowledge.. an open certification system..
maybe if people are free.. if they’re doing something.. will be the credential.. ie: people will only be doing their art.. aka: eudaimoniative surplus
31 min – if the only answer we have is a bureaucratic state.. we’re in bad shape.. because people don’t want this anymore..
so we need a partner state.. that doesn’t do things for you.. but enables you to do things..
mech to facil the chaos/curiosities of 7 bn free people.. everyday.. ie: a nother way
dear all, I have just written a first draft note on how I see the research focus on the P2P Foundation evolving. Comments are very welcome
The above description does not exhaust our interests. For example, we have been struggling quite a bit on the intersection between the commons and the care economy, and the inherent gender inequality of a dominant system which doesn’t recognize vital care as valued contributions, and therefore how to imagine solidarity and welfare systems that can cover the risks of all contributions. For the next three years, I will work with SMart, the fast growing European cooperative and mutualist labour mutual, which has developed working solutions for precarious autonomous workers, by creating salaries with welfare benefits. An important line of investigation for myself will be looking at the welfare systems of tomorrow, i.e. those that are no longer tigthly linked to salaried jobs that require the subordination through labour contracts, but also build rights and benefits around contributions, this includes life-long learning, engagement with care, but also contributions to nonprofit activities and the commons. Will this also include a universal basic income requirement, is one of the possibilities we need to investigate …
So imagine three circles representing the three major societal institutions, but under it, the ecological and social requirements that we all need to make such a system work. I feel we have a good handle on the superstructure, but a lot more work needs to be done on these underlying requirements.
perhaps if superstructure is deep/simple/open enough.. underlying requirements are onglingly worked on by 7bn.. 24/7.. so no more pre req..
ie: time for 7bn to be doing/living/being/working it.. not just a few.. rev of everyday life..
P2P: A NEW CYCLE OF POST-CIVILIZATIONAL DEVELOPMENT
More recently I have been moving my attention to the shift from a redistributive economy (which is extractive of human and natural value and tries to redistribute afterwards) to a pre-distributive economy, and from ecological damage limitation to regenerative practices.
The commons is today the central category of change, i.e. citizens have become directly productive of social value as contributors to the commons, and peer to peer is the key social relationship to enable and scale it beyond the capacities of both market and state.
The best bet is to work with scenarios, and focus on the one we prefer.
ie: a quiet revolution (a qr scenario)
While I have nothing against utopias myself, and they may be needed to inspire people with new visions of the possible, I consider my own work to be explicitly not utopian. My method is to look at real-life practices and examples, and when enough weak signals show up to prove it is a real trend, to analyse the underlying logic of these seed forms. It is only from there that I begin visioning exercises about what a society would look like if it would exhibit the same logics at the macro-level.
and.. since we now have the means (as it could be..) for 7 bn to leap to a nother way to live.. perhaps a revolution (as in instigating utopia everyday) is finally possible for this many (any many) people
After three decades of anti-utopian neoliberalism legitimating itself through capitalist realism, I think a revival in utopian thinking, at least a dose, would actually not be a bad thing.
Even commons communities think about themselves first, and not the totality of the ecosystem..t
then.. i’d say.. not truly commons.. not truly undisturbed ecosystem
RK: How does one get from where we are to your ideal?
That is a difficult question. Our strategy is that of a relentless interweaving of projects and people, and to increase the level of understanding and mutual organization.. t.. The idea is that, as the mainstream disintegrates in stages, the alternatives will also strengthen in social and political power and become powerful attractors.
I think there are three powerful ‘currents’ that are converging, consisting of many different movements and projects. One is the movement to share knowledge and things, i.e. both the open source movements but also the genuine ‘sharing’ movements. The second are all the people that are caring for and fighting for the environment and the planet. And finally, the movements for fairness, equality, solidarity, cooperativism.
The challenge is that they all have to come together..t
indeed.. begs a focus/mech deep/simple/open enough for 7bn to resonate with today..
For me, the work we are doing is to provide a possible integrative narrative so that a lot more mutual coordination can occur, which can replace the industrial society narrative of labour vs capital. Right now, all that needs to happen is happening, but at tiny scale, too slowly, and with a huge fragmentation of effort.
The more we can see ourselves in a common story, involved in a convergent structural effort to change the very DNA of our societies, the more we can mutually coordinate and the faster we can grow to the scale needed to tackle the global emergency.
common story: a nother way book
If all this is true, it means our problems are really systemic.
indeed.. we need to re undisturb our ecosystem
This is a profound aspiration of human beings, even in currently non-egalitarian cultures. I will never forget that the most enthusiastic responses to my ideas were in the indigenous communities of Ecuador..t
michel fb share
” Programmable organizations enable production to be organized in a way that makes social criteria the rationale for production; not a constraint on it.”..t
not crucial and not insight.. as long as we keep measuring .. the transactions.. et al.. won’t get us to ‘social criteria as rationale’
That’s a big claim. It announces new economic possibilities that, while not entirely novel in their vision, are wildly new in the conception of their reach and mode of organization…t
spot on.. not new.. still measuring transactions.. so .. if true in reach and mode of org.. still a disturbance to the ecosystem.. so.. just more of the wrong thing..
the best article on the crypto economy I have seen so far: “the crypto economy is not just another tech sector. It is a different way of doing the economy”, a must read: https://t.co/W4ohfqRQ66
Original Tweet: https://twitter.com/mbauwens/status/996320906539659264
article by Dick Bryan and Akseli Virtanen @econaut6
Michel working w smart for 3 yrs (jan 2018):
12 min video from 2015 – on commons.. ecosystems emerging.. commons at core but still need to make a living.. there’s so much happening you just have to want to see it.. et al..
via Michel fb share:
RT @robintransition: “The biggest challenge now is the reactivity that is induced by social media. I have it in my own life. How do you make the space where you can just think? I see that as a big challenge for our society”: @mbauwens https://t.co/TEgRE6EUUH
via Rob Hopkins
3 min – we see civil society as some kind of leftover .. when you come home tired..
can’t be after the day.. has to be as the day
As long as you think value comes from the market, you’re very limited in what you can do.
4 min – The biggest challenge now is the reactivity that is induced by social media. I have it in my own life. I really have to be careful because you can spend so much time reacting to input. How do you make the space where you can just think? I see that as a big challenge for our society.
11 min – I was a very lonely child. I was an only child. My biggest enemy was boredom. If you’re bored, you have time to imagine. That emptiness paradoxically became the richness.
michel via fb share .. from thread on daostack
this is from another thread on DAOstack, but I think it’s an important insight to avoid confusion in discussions about crypto vs cooperative governance:
my ideas on this are not entirely clear, but bear with me;
“just as there is a difference between trustlessness of the crypto world and the high trust world of cooperativism, there is a difference about what is meant by governance; for many in the crypto world, governance means ‘like the market’, i.e. the ability to work at scale together, ‘without having to know the other person’. It’s all about transactional ease and it represents the libertarian/liberal dream of the marketplace as the place of ultimate self-regulated arbitrage. This is the great advantage of markets is it not, that it ‘liberates people from the drag of community.’ As crypto is so much influenced, consciously and unconsciously, by market theory, many of the solutions it finds for ‘governance’, come from economics (game theory, incentives); but in the higher trust world of cooperativism, we mean something entirely different with governance, i.e. we mean community governance, not in the traditional sense of territorial ‘gemeinschaft’, but in the sense of talking and deciding together in affinity communities. These two aspects of governance are both needed, but should not be confused.”
it’s a complicated hybrid reality; blockchain projects want to incentivize massive coordination and cooperation outside of hierarchical institutional channels, using mostly market incentives, but also relying heavily on open source code bases and community-driven open source dynamics; the two major problems they are having today is that they are often indifferent about wealth inequality, i.e. the power of money,and ecological realities; however within this broad movement you will find projects that intent do inject these social and ecological concerns. Competitive markets are like football, with teams competing with each other; commons-based markets share a large common base ; crypto markets allow for all kinds of non-instititutional entities, like individuals and small informal groups, to cooperate seamlessly on common projects
same day .. new thread
input very welcome:
“The concept of a “Distributed Autonomous Organization/Corporation” is an idealistic outcome of the crypto-tech revolution. Its roots originate in themes on organizational decentralization that were depicted by Ori Brafman in Starfish And The Spider (2007), and ones about “peer production”, aptly described by Yochai Benkler in The Wealth of Networks (2007). But these two themes were recently joined by the advent of cryptocurrency related technologies by Dan Larimer who observed that Bitcoin is the original DAC, and Vitalik Buterin who expanded on that construct by generalizing it further as a DAO, noting that the DAO has “internal capital”. Deregulation of crowdfunding and unbundling of services were two additionally paired themes that added to this combustion, and the whole thing was turbo-charged by a crypto-tech governance layer of technologies and trust-based automations to allow DAOs to “run without any human involvement under the control of an incorruptible set of business rules.”
what is the relation between personal change and societal change ?
10 min video convo – (after 37 min intverview below):
t: you’ve talked about where the motivation came from but where do you get the energy.. the spiritm: people who find their place early in life are not going to rock the boat.. then people like me.. what am i doing.. something wrong with the operating system
2 min – m: i had been an activist.. from anger.. when i was young.. it wasn’t working.. so then i adapted to the world but always w a kind of depression underneath.. then i was lucky enough.. that everything went wrong at same time.. because if one thing goes wrong.. can hang onto the others.. so .. what would make truly happy.. i want to change the world.. i liberated that energy.. crisis of integration.. when you can put two things together.. i put more than that.. finding the essential reason i’m here.. i have a prophetic function to do what the world needs.. beyond ego..i have a mission..4 min – m: because you have this conviction.. you have a diff vision about your problems.. because you have this underlying purpose.. it just drives you.. you just have to follow it..t
5 min – i took a sabbatical to do that .. 2 years.. you need 6 months just to make yourself empty
8 min – first try it in your current life.. build confidence9 min – this is your purpose.. a planetary emergency.. can’t wait to find funding.. sometimes have to jump..
2 min – move from idea of labour as a commodity.. as a market good to a system of contribution.. and then as commoners.. how do we best coop w market and state
7 min – not about changing everything from the ground up.. it’s about reconfiguring what exists
i don’t know.. moten abolition law .. et al
9 min – ghent.. 50 urban commons projects in 2006.. but 500 in 2016..
13 min – i work way too hard.. that’s dangerous.. we org in life boats.. 2 groups of 6.. 6 months in thailand to read/think.. 6 months in europe.. this kind of pausation i think is what most people need.. when engaged.. it’s not over at 4 every day.. it’s .. when do i stop
16 min – as commoners .. how do we manage the risk of our lives.. (talked about smart and getting paid et al)
21 min – commons is good because by defn it’s self governed
23 min – difficulty in the west is the capitalism has completely abolished the commons.. so it’s normal that people don’t realize what the commons are
24 min – i’m sure you have urban commons.. just need to find/connect them.. so suffer from lack of common language..
28 min – how do we re create these connections
35 min – the law is not made for us.. it is all in generating scarcity
sept 26 2018 – straight from australia, thanks to Paul Bishop for filming – (7 min clip)
2 min – how do people know what to do w no boss.. ? by seeing.. this is called holoptic systems.. the capacity to see everything..t
imagining the capacity to hear everything – ie: tech as it could be..
and something called stigmergy.. which is the language of the bees and the insects..t
ie: meadows undisturbed ecosystem
3 min – 1\ by seeing.. you can adapt your behavior to the others.. so i know what to write for wikipedia.. because i can see what’s missing and i can see the mistakes.. nobody has to tell me.. so this is the first level of coordination..t
imagine starting from within each person each day.. via self-talk as data..
2\ the second level is the market.. we need things that are not renewable that we need resources for..
3\ the third level is for planning.. and this is what the state or the city can do.. ie: need to de carbonize.. a planning imperative.. state and city are enabling/empowering the social cooperation.. that’s what i mean w the partner state
4 min – trying to get you out of the market/state binary and to see the city as a facilitator.. t
maybe just let go of both ie: cure ios city
5 min – in ie: commons alone can’t solve this.. so one of the tasks in future of city is capacity building.. ie: every citizen has same right.. capacity to contribute to common good
equity: everyone getting a go everyday.. trusting that
they still have competition.. competition is how good you are at doing common good
15 min – interview sept 2018 – michel in australia
exceptionally important article about our new ‘tech’ world order: Res Publica ex Machina: On Neocybernetic Governance and the End of Politics « INC Longform https://t.co/fR1ZamPmrH #mustread
Original Tweet: https://twitter.com/mbauwens/status/1055372257466425344
The timely political conclusion to be drawn from this is nicely summed up by the authorial collective Tiqqun, who defines the task of cybernetic governance in the era of networks as follows: ‘governing means ensuring the interconnection of people, objects, and machines as well as the free – i.e., transparent and controllable – circulation of information that is generated in this manner.’.t
In Noveck’s approach, the role of the government should be reduced to the role of a facilitator, its primary goal being to establish a ‘platform for coordinating citizen action’ based on the mechanisms of a dedicated feedback logic..t
tech as it could be..
In Noveck’s model, general participation is reduced to reporting systemic disruptions, whereas participation in decision making is open to only those obtaining the relevant knowledge ..t.. or know-how that might contribute to solving a particular problem.
even if decision making was open to all.. thinking in terms of decision making is as reductionist as anything.. if we were truly free.. most if not all of the things we think we need to make decisions about today would become irrelevant
Moreover, according to Noveck, such ‘citizen experts’ should be listed publicly and ranked according to their individual capacities, in close cooperation with private platforms, such as LinkedIn and Coursera, on which citizens can publicly inform others of their progress, newly awarded certificates and so on..t
THE PROBLEM WITH SOCIAL PHYSICS
sandy – social physics et al
Rather, we are dealing with an entirely transformed notion of freedom which is only realized through being potentially regulated when necessary. It is freedom as framed by Stafford Beer: *‘The freedom we embrace must yet be in control.’ Even more straightforward is the manner in which the management cyberneticist continues – the wording is indeed uncannily reminiscent of Parag Khanna’s and, as we will see, Pentland’s: ‘**We have to become efficient in order to solve our problems; and we have to accept the threat to freedom that this entails – and handle it.’.. t
**ugh – efficiency..
Seen from a political viewpoint that considers individual autonomous judgment as a necessary precondition for self-determined political participation, Pentland’s behavioristic focus on the homo imitans and on adaptable behavior is particularly alarming. Close to what Obama advisor Sunstein has popularized under the rubric of ‘nudging’, that is, a form of choice architecture that seeks to subconsciously influence or push human behavior in ‘more reasonable’ directions, Pentland seeks to influence the interrelations between humans. He distinguishes this ‘peer-to-peer behavior’ from ‘individual behavior’. The former largely rests on adaptation, a term that became extremely popular during the rise of cybernetics as a science (for instance, in the works of W. Ross Ashby and Norbert Wiener).
Pentland wants to shape the social fabric by implementing quantifiable incentives that modify interactions. Such a focus on the network is, according to him, twice as efficient as focusing on an isolated individual..t.. One of Pentland’s experimental examples refers to the attempt to raise the overall activity level of a group during a lazy winter.
What becomes evident here is a shift from depicting the human as capable of autonomous judgment to behavioristic models that have given up on the idea of the autonomous decider..t
perhaps calling us deciders is part of the problem.. let’s just be curious.. and use tech to listen for that..
tech as it could be..
To return to the issue of freedom, even though the implementation of choice architectures and the redesign of what Pentland terms ‘the social fabric’ are far from directly determining or immediately violating free choice –
not far enough.. krishnamurti free will law
It can be argued that the stylization of digital technology to the ultima ratio of producing allegedly stable, self-settling orders solely based on the mechanisms of algorithmic problem solving, has opened entirely new spheres of influence that will eventually establish what media theorist Roberto Simanowski terms a ‘numerocracy’: a quantified society partly self-regulated through real-time data flows. Correspondingly, Evgeny Morozov speaks of a general tendency towards ‘solutionism’ by which he addresses politics’ increasing reliance on technology solutions and other cybernetic techniques, such as behavioral economics, evaluations and ranking lists, or more generally, the setting of incentives and feedback loops to reinforce regularity
*oy.. of math and men ness
What has to be thought through then, is how the cybernetic reduction of the political notion of equality to the rather contentless notion of equal access, and the perception of the social in the sense of mere connectedness, is complicit with the ways in which democracies today tend to undermine and, eventually, cancel their very own fundaments
‘..The redeeming power of reflection cannot be supplanted by the extension of technically exploitable knowledge.’ – Jürgen Habermas..t
begs we try self-talk as data
40 min soundcloud – oct 2018
Michel Bauwens (@mbauwens) tweeted at 6:50 AM – 9 Nov 2018 :
Michel Bauwens on the Commons and the Circular Economy – P2P Foundation https://t.co/kouwQtTy0W (http://twitter.com/mbauwens/status/1060892315143884801?s=17)
16 min – want to switch from model that only does extraction.. doing this creates ineq/climate change.. imagine a mode of production.. in which externalities are part of system
18 min – today no mech to fund positive externalities.. how could you even get a circle econ.. we don’t have the time
19 min – using blockchain.. mass coord.. that’s become physical.. context based sustainability..
21 min – have to do same way we think about platforms.. ie: social ills from like air bnb and uber.. so.. let’s set platform co-ops.. collectively managed by stakeholder groups stays w shareholders
23 min – i’m personally in favor of bi.. ie: me.. had hard time finding a business model for my work.. guy standing.. and yanis – rent taking.. land value tax.. if do labor.. shouldn’t be taxed.. but if rewarded by work of others.. this is rent.. should be taxed.. use that for commons well fund.. eventually to fund bi.. for people who are *doing the things that need to be done
*who decides that..?
26 min – open source econ has 1\ community 2\ market 3\ foundations.. good analogy how state could be in future
28 min – happening .. we just need to make it more conscious
29 min – ostrom said of commons – it’s multi stakeholder governance
30 min – i think at moment nation state in crisis.. but i think cities.. ie: leagues of cities.. w transition councils.. (mobility, food, habitat).. want more local/fair .. so start funding experimentation.. but underlying infra such be global.. so create global resource repository.. every city can use it and local co-ops can set up on this infra
32 min – people mostly concerned about food.. and food is easiest to do.. ie: ghent
33 min – on my wish list is that i could set up such a project in a city like brussels.. .. to show that this can work.. that we can create meaningful engagement /activity locally.. t
cure ios city.. a people experiment
34 min – constitutions talk common good.. not profit max.. so any profit max is not constitutional.. judge co’s in their ability to do common good.. they have developed 17 indicators..
38 min – i’m not saying we should commodify nature.. i’m saying people who can prove they have beneficial social/econ should be funded.. we have way too much income tax and way to littel environ tax
39 min – not enough people are looking at the big picture.. this is the role of p2p..t
40 min – people don’t see commons.. because they don’t know what it is.. it’s all around you have to learn to see it..
interview w marc
Long interview, thanks to Marc Pesce in Sydney:
“Michel Bauwen’s P2P Foundation helps humanity share the best ideas at global scale, giving us a leg up through some tight years ahead.”
Original Tweet: https://twitter.com/mbauwens/status/1062878031478431747
michel starts at 5 min
5 min – 4 basic ways of org ing human exchange –
1\ h g didn’t want property – stops working when have about 150 people
6 min –
2\ hierarchy brings down cost of communicating.. simplify beyond 150
3rd wave: to urban commons – ghent – any shared resource maintained by community following own rules and norms 1\resource 2\ human choice 3\ set own norms.. ecosystem becomes the commons
11 min – things we can do 1\ platform coops 2\ blockchain
12 min – next thing coming along.. limitation of urban commons redistributing only.. so next.. cosmo local production.. light global shared.. heavy relocalized
15 min – commons not just a choice.. a necessity..t
19 min – marc: how do we keep from feudal ness.. m: this is my hope.. collapse
20 min – we’ve already shown this can happen in food
22 min – marc: are they really building commons or just what worked for us.. m: the .. ‘it’s my turn’.. mentality can’t work.. it’s too late.. a final breaking of hope
24 min – marc: if that is the problem.. what solutions are we seeing..from arc of over consumption to arc of sustainability m: you find them everywhere.. ie: one in china.. shenzen open source econ at core of their success.. national rule reconstruction movement.. ecosystems.. workers going to villages become the transport of food.. then train youth to do organic farming in countryside.. whole new consciousness.. creates income streams for everyone
27 min – also mumbai.. mit .. center for policy design.. students amazing.. complex analysis.. really critical thinkers.. so less group think.. creative socially.. couple projects 1\ solar labs – gives light at night.. millions of kids reading at night 2\ spoken tutorials 400 000 students using this outside unis.. colleges become members.. and anybody can register thru college.. professionally made by staff of about 80 people right now funded by indian govt and college fee.. get certification.. and then can join colleges
31 min – 3\ rd chi.. open source computer.. very cheap
32 min – marc: it feels over last 25 yrs there’s been a learning process going on.. how to work together at scale.. are we hitting an inflection point here.. m: i think so.. couldn’t prove this
dang.. learning isn’t the point..
34 min – people know we are stuck
35 min – a vision i have – how do we change the main system.. not only going to happen w seed forms.. an interesting movement.. common good econ movement.. christian felber.. every constitution say econ should serve common good.. to shareholders is not constitutional.. they have 2000 orgs/co’s applying common good balance.. imagine one day strong enough to have constitution convention.. and change complete structure.. every co.. goal is common good.. but co could still preserve selvess.. would have p2p on steroids
39 min – marc: can that happen globally? or locally .. does it have to happen all at once .. m: no i don’t think so i think you need exemplars that can then replicate
ie of replicate thru splitting.. once we have things that work they can replicate and spread.. but what i think is key is cities.. can do global open design.. not seen as local but trans local..
ie: cure ios city as infra
Michel Bauwens－Technology For the People: How & Why?－Welcome & Intro－Day 1－PCC 2018
my keynote presentation for the platform cooperativism in Hong Kong
an argument that technology is NOT NEUTRAL, but the result of human design and therefore, to the values and interests of human groups
Today, four socio-technical systems are competing for dominance, two of them extractive towards communities and resources, two of them generative. The good news is that there are generative alternatives for the 2 exploitative ones
I talk here about platform coops, ledger coops, urban/bioregional provisioning coops, and cosmo-local protocol coops
and I explain about the transition from a marxist capitalism, to a proudhonian capitalism, and possibly to a commons-centric, post-capitalist civilization:
48 min video
5 min – 4 quads: x-axis centralized to distributed .. y-axis profit to non-profit
13 min – it’s a crisis of value – working – providing value – but not getting paid
14 min – so this is what platform co ops are about – i call them netarchical
4 quadrants: 1\ netarchical 2\ distributed capitalism (bitcoin/blockchain) 3\ local for benefit (how it deals w the global) 4\ global-local
15 min – anarchical capitalists.. no community/trust.. i’ve been to blockchain conferences.. where they start w.. ‘we can’t trust humans’.. so need contracts.. that we can verify thru tech.. so we trust tech..t
17 min – i don’t like that vision – t
18 min – chaing mai digital nomads.. – people won’t work for money.. only for token
23 min – imagine .. because we need a circular econ.. that coalitions work together on open/shared supply chains.. today we can do this.. t
today we can go beyond circuclar no..?i’m thinking circular doesn’t allow enough for emergence.. entropy.. chaos.. alive/ness.. et al.. perhaps more a messy/nonpredictable.. like pi.. patterns appear.. but there is no pattern
thinking circular.. makes us think we can control/plan.. et al..
28 min – donut econ
30 min – the key issue.. capitalism doesn’t recognize generative activity..t
32 min – how this can happen – regen network – eco state protocols.. ie: need more .. (social, eco, whatever..) you agree on a co op state protocol and agree that any can carry this out.. launched/verity/tokenize.. then most political part.. convince institutions to share what they benefit from this.. so would be a systematic way to fun generative activities on any scale
35 min – we noticed.. in european cities.. expo growth of urban commons.. shared resource..maintained by community according to own rules..
37 min – by pooling resources (that’s what commons is about) reduces footprint
39 min – transitions towns discussing peak oil..
39 min – you could argue today that there’s no more local.. global used for local
4 quadrants: 1\ netarchical 2\ distributed capitalism (bitcoin/blockchain) 3\ local for benefit (how it deals w the global) 4\ global-local
41 min – organic farming is local.. humanity spends 3x as much energy on transporting than producing.. t
43 min – platform co ops
45 min – i see cities as key for this.. leagues combining to create global open design
46 mini – every civilization – because competing will always overshoot local resources.. so every civilization so far has collapsed.. because of ecosystem overshoot..t
begs common ing
47 min – learning about commons is vital for survival of world situation today.. no longer in single/separate geographic.. we have a global situation.. calls for a rethinking..t
has to be all of us..
what people are doing about this.. platform.. ledgers.. coalitions of cities
p2p’s paper/report on study of commons and commons transition (also putting it on city as commons policy reader page):
Michel Bauwens (@mbauwens) tweeted at 6:34 AM – 13 Dec 2018 :
@petervan Dear Peter: this is the link! thanks for the kind words: https://t.co/Af9SPUcEA2 (http://twitter.com/mbauwens/status/1073209533776977921?s=17)
JUST WROTE THIS, ON THE SHIFT FROM INTER-NATIONALISM TO TRANS-NATIONALISM:
The exceptions, Varoufakis’ Diem25 movement, with its pan-European outlook, have not yet proven to have any real traction, and the inter-national system of cooperation is not strengthening, but weakening.
So what I believe needs to happen is a change of focus. Of course, the national and the inter-national remain powerful and will do so for the foreseeable future, but at the same time, we need to build trans-national institutions, and strategies..progressive forces should no longer see policy making as only focused on market value, on their own nation-state only, or on international political cooperation, but rather on the transnationalization of infrastructures.
ie: cure ios city
tweet via p2p:
Book of the Day: Team Human https://t.co/p5lKMeKk1w
Original Tweet: https://twitter.com/P2P_Foundation/status/1083288329322418176
on hold.. but ugh after pesce episode
2 of michel’s latest books/projects:
Join us in London on March 21, for the Book Launch: Peer to Peer: The Commons Manifesto | P2P Foundation https://t.co/gK0UQcZppS
Original Tweet: https://twitter.com/mbauwens/status/1085719629647962112
table of contents for p2p: the commons manifesto
the TOC of our upcoming book (out 21/3)
1 Introduction 1
1.1 What is P2P and How is it Related to the Commons? 2
1.2 Are P2P Technologies Good or Bad? 3
1.3 How Does P2P Relate to Capitalism? 4
1.4 How is P2P to be Implemented in Practice? 6
1.5 Towards a Commons-centric Society? 7
2 P2P and a New Ecosystem of Value Creation 11
2.1 Diverse Skills and Motivation 11
2.2 Transparent Heterarchy 12
2.3 A New Ecosystem of Value Creation 12
2.4 Four Short Case Studies 19
2.5 From Contradictions to an Integrated Economic Reality 27
3 P2P and New Socio-technological Frameworks 33
3.1 Two Generic Models 34
3.2 The Extractive Model of Cognitive Capitalism 36
3.3 The Generative Model of Commons-based Peer Production 39
4 P2P and the Structure of World History 47
4.1 Four Modes of Exchange 47
4.2 Towards Associationism 50
5 A Commons Transition Strategy 55
5.1 Pooling and Mutualizing Resources Wherever Possible 56
5.2 Introducing Reciprocity 56
5.3 From Redistribution to Empowerment and Predistribution 58
5.4 Subordinating the Capitalist Market 64
5.5 Organizing at the Local and Global Level 65
5.6 Summary of our Proposals 67
5.7 A Last Word 68
@mokka @PiirainenTatu have a look at my latest project, dear Roope, https://t.co/APj4Fq089Q ; also of potential interest, my latest editorial on transnational mutualization, but the link is on fb
Original Tweet: https://twitter.com/mbauwens/status/1086289472411652098
Michel Bauwens (@mbauwens) tweeted at 6:35 AM – 8 Mar 2019 :
RT @JenniferSertl: How Peer-To-Peer #p2p Can Save the World
@thinkDIF_ with our mbauwens (http://twitter.com/mbauwens/status/1104012677767225344?s=17)
40 min audio
In this podcast, Michel Bauwens joins some dots together and explains why the open source movement, the growing prevalence of peer-to-peer sharing economy platforms and new technologies like blockchain create the potential to create a fundamentally different economic model that circulates vale between businesses, people and the environment, rather than extracts it. Bauwens believes that we should move to an economy that is built on infinite resources like knowledge, rather than finite materials, and we have the structure and technologies to achieve it.
13 min – moving away from labor/capital system to system of contributions and commons.. open.. where anybody can permissionlessly contribute
well.. no anybody.. that’s a big issue to commons ness.. has to be all of us or it won’t work.. it will end up as a tragedy
23 min – how to find the time.. in favor of ubi – guy standing and yanis – econ rent
28 min – that sounds complicated.. that is complicated
29 min – ostrom said governance of commons is poly governance
interviewer – what would you say would bring all these together.. m: i think cities are really great place to start.. leagues of cities as transnational govts.. as cities have to do transition
32 min – food is the easiest..
ie: in ghent city owned public schools serve 5 million meals a year from far away.. alt is to buy organic from local farmers.. 0 carbon transport.. and hire cooks in schools again.. create healthy foods and jobs.. this is on my wish list.. for brussels or..
38 min – i’m not saying we should commodify nature.. but people should be funded if showing doing good
39 min – i’m not saying this can happen tomorrow.. it’s like a puzzle.. a lot of people are working on the pieces.. but not enough are looking at the whole picture.. this is what p2p is doing.. we look at the gaps.. what people we should be pushing to talk together.. which patterns should be matched.. t
people don’t see the commons because they don’t know what it is.. you have to learn to see it .. and let it affect your consciousness.. to see a new world and find your place in it
Michel Bauwens (@mbauwens) tweeted at 7:18 PM on Fri, Mar 08, 2019:
RT @GT_Initiative: mbauwens: “Digital commons are helping people to transcend borders, distance, and other previous barriers to collaboration in both knowledge and production.” https://t.co/Ecjv0BJZDOhttps://t.co/0GKQYnnAS7
Michel Bauwens (@mbauwens) tweeted at 4:57 AM on Tue, Mar 12, 2019:
@doctorow : dear Cory, I think you might find this of interest: “How shared perma-circular supply chains, post-blockchain distributed ledgers, protocol cooperatives, and three new forms of post-capitalist accounting, could very well save the planet.” https://t.co/sJLhNywQ5o
from kate‘s prologue to accounting for planetary survival:
So leave behind today’s widespread obsession with smart contracts, platform capitalism and economies of scale: these only serve to reinforce last century’s dominant and extractive modes of production. Instead, dive into this report and discover the possibilities of Ostrom contracts, platform cooperativism and economies of scope
michel life story & responses (has all below plus twitter responses)
Michel Bauwens (@mbauwens) tweeted at 8:10 PM on Tue, Mar 12, 2019:
On 24 January 2019, in Hong Kong, Lau Kin Chi et al. interviewed Michel Bauwens who talked about how his childhood, background and life trajectory informed his activism and thinking. Produced by Global University for Sustainability, January 2019.
18 months taken from home.. center was abusive – forced eating and glass bubble.. then 6ish to nice place.. didn’t like school but was smart.. then 13ish not good..
8 min – i absorbed what others were feeling.. not a good place to be.. ie: watching may 68.. i was there.. et al.. i feel today this is something we lost.. this idea that socialism was uniting everyone in the world.. felt solidarity w struggles.. ie: wasn’t somebody else
10 min – age 14.. i was a marxist w/o knowing it
12 min – didn’t like the segregation in the us.. belgium didn’t have that
15 min – even though we hated capitalism.. we wouldn’t have a job w/o it
16 min – 7-8 yrs was leader in active militant group.. then.. signs things weren’t going to happen.. discrepancy of how rosy it seemed w/in the movement.. but nothing happening global..70s revolution.. 80s counter revolution
19 min – then period of leveling off (hierarchy ness) but not paid as much
20 min – motorcycle accident.. 3 months in hospital.. none of friends came to visit me.. so.. too busy.. questioning that.. on other hand. . ones that are good with each other.. exclusionary..
21 min – unhappy in many ways.. if i can’t do the revolution the world.. i have to do revolution inside.. so lots of spiritual searching and psych work.. i needed transition from being marxist and not.. i didn’t reject it intellectually.. i don’t know why it’s not working.. my life is just not good.. so had to reject activist life but mentally very much a part of it..
24 min – then walking in poor neighborhood.. and sun was shining.. the eye of god – philip k dick: ‘we live in diff world’s.. because of way we see it’
26 min – reichen therapy.. that psych is based in body – was my first experience.. very liberating for me.. for 3 yrs in commune..
27 min – then beginning of aids.. then starting working for us info agency.. ref librarian.. so i discovered aids before anyone else.. i was saying.. this is dangerous
29 min – can say for open relationships.. but gut doesn’t agree.. so i left
30 min – then to place where all modern therapists were.. counter marxist.. good people .. but structures keep us from being cooperative.. system is bad.. problem is too extreme view.. then you’re a victim.. ie: if it’s the school et al.. you have no control..
we could.. we should..
32 min – so swinging from polarities.. can be good if end up back in middle.. ie: i am my body.. to.. i am not my body..
35 min – went thru many psycho drama therapies.. hit bottom.. which is good.. had to make a decision.. so 2nd step.. 1st psychology.. 2nd spirituality.. ended up w osho
38 min – then to own tradition.. alchemy, templer, mason, et al.. agnostic monarchian movement – ie: this is a bad world.. so god that created it cannot be a good god.. somewhere else is the real god.. so imagine in this world can’t do anything.. if try.. creates evil somewhere else.. so have to meditate and pray.. this made me sick.. and paradoxically brought me back to catholic tradition.. ie: have to help god create a better world.. even though i was still an atheist..
40 in – if unhappy enough to motivate you to search.. see all this.. and can see why any vision is relevant and can’t be absolute anymore
41 min – beyond civilization by keith chandler.. i think he got it right.. when people lived in tribes.. no tragedy.. then class assigned.. slaves.. war.. then life sucks.. and religion is an org’d answer that justifies class structure.. order is bad.. chaos is good.. western is opposite.. god creates order.. about bringing order to world..
44 min – since religions leads to class.. hierarchy.. what we see now is inclusion.. civil rights.. so to him (keith) sign we’re moving out of the bad
45 min – lot of my friends.. danger w obsession w self and who you serve.. at age 35.. felt pretty screwed up and want to engage.. i’d done 9 yrs of library work and went into work of business.. 1990-2002.. politics not working.. in business things are happening.. ie: tech.. was quite successful.. a strategic knowledge manager for petroleum co..
47 min – 1995 started having doubts.. seeing world going bad direction.. early days of climate change.. zapatistas.. i felt a larp\half depression.. i believed world should be just based.. but i had given up on it.. i live in bad world but can do nothing about it.. this (business) is not the right thing..
48 min – 96-97 – bad relationship, father died, mother alzheimers, mafia types in co, ken wilbur was intellectual guru gone bad, so really big crisis..
49 min – have like drug withdrawal when relationship broke.. fever, primal scream therapy, good place to be.. when you look back.. all at once.. nothing to hang onto..
51 min – switched to saying.. i want to save the world.. this is me.. reconnecting w youthful vision.. but w diff energy than earlier.. ie: not w a righteous rage.. rather.. i have more of my act together.. and overflow of energy.. and i want to give
53 min – quit job, created magazine and made a movie.. (technocalyps) .. as 1st part of my integration.. i believe tech is a religion.. this doc was about that
3-hour TV documentary Technocalyps – http://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Founders
55 min – unconscious religion that doesn’t recognize self – transhumanism .. et al..
56 min – my problem was.. i want to be engaged again.. and traditional marxism not working.. so re read marx.. fed on hardt/negri empire.. that was right book for me.. brought epic feeling that there is something good happening.. ie: globalization.. creating new conditions for revolution.. also read multitude magazine
58 min – 2nd step.. how do we change the world today.. so i took a sabbatical .. moved to thailand – w wife – where i thought i could finance my sabbatical..
used time for a historical inquiry of – how does the world change..t
perhaps it’s never changed enough.. so perhaps that’s not the best place to look.. like trying to get wisdom from ie: whales in sea world
i think this is huge michel.. i wish we could talk
1:00 – system works for a while.. then doesn’t work anymore.. then all kinds of people looking for solutions.. these solutions have another logic that is inside that seed form.. it’s problematic
1:02 – indulgences… then printing press.. more level.. the accounting.. all these are seed forms.. signs of capitalism.. and that’s what i’m thinking today.. no longer capitalist solutions.. p2p, crowdfunding..
indulgences, press, accounting.. created for/by whales in sea world
1:04 – so for 10 yrs been looking at this and seeing.. subsystems .. some capitalist.. other new
1:06 – ie: people not wanting to make coffee for profit.. but just to make coffee and a good living.. (then described how he describes co-op ness for those both inside/outside co-op)
1:07 – so this is something new.. not capitalism.. so i started asking.. how do these commons work
1:09 – so my vision of world today – all civilizations so far have died.. every time die because of ruling class in competition and in order to win over exploit and create structural crisis..t
another sign we need to look beyond/deeper than past cycles..
1:11 – commoners look at market and ask.. how do we make this work for us..
1:13 – so how do we connect more?.. after 2 yrs of sabbatical.. started blog/wiki doing interesting stuff so people come to me.. – 2005 – needed structure.. and that was p2p foundation.. for 7 yrs not doing so well at making a living.. challenge for my wife
1:15 – the 2014 invited to ecuador.. wasn’t successful.. i think the left doesn’t know what to do.. extractivism is just another way to do capitalism.. so what ecuador did is create legitimacy for us.. i was now working for govt and things started going in right direction
1:16 – guy who set me up on linux – was spy – was blocking everyone who came to me.. he had put a filter to delete emails.. he would answer invitations that yes i’d come.. then right before would say.. i (michel) can’t’ come but would send himself in my place
1:18 – then ghent important.. 2nd step.. 1\ commons market – new types of licensing et al 2\ commons public.. how does city org self.. we’re using too many resources
ie: cure ios city – people that are truly themselves crave/need/use less resources.. very resourceful
1:20 – for me .. mutualization can save it.. ie: if you need a car there is one for you.. costs 70% less than buying a car et al.. replaced 9-13 cars
yeah.. imagine that to the max.. ie: most people wouldn’t even use cars anymore.. beyond sharing them
1:21 – probably hardest shift we have to face in history of humanity.. we have to find solutions that are able to maintain complex tech infra.. t
hardest part is letting go of hard won order (carhart-harris entropy law)
1:23 – we don’t know if survive.. all in past have suicided themselves.. if we really want to survive commons is huge.. the commoners are actually transnational (vs ie: sanders).. young people today say i do this/that.. vs i work for so and so.. more contributory
1:24 – if we want sustainable socially just society.. francious gross studies say.. can’t grow more than 1% a year.. otherwise exponential.. otherwise circular doesn’t help.. just delays.. 30-60 yrs later.. so he calls it perma circular.. a competitive system cannot solve this..
1:26 – so that means we need shared supply chains..t
1:27 – *accounting system is crucial.. first writing in sumaria was a **ledger.. then capitalism created because of double entry book accounting.. t
*perhaps no.. and **perhaps that’s exactly why we need to not have accounting.. look at how cancerous that has been to humanity.. (the hierachiness of write ing)
1:28 – we need flow accounting (resourced, events, actions).. not double entry just shows where you are in ecosystem.. then we need contributive accounting.. how peer production works.. it’s not labor as a commodity.. it’s .. we’re all doing something together.. *how do we recognize each others input..t
no.. we need no accounting.. that’s the cancer man.. of math and men.. our demise
*by a mech that listens to every voice everyday..first thing.. as it could be..
twitter responses stemming from this tweet recorded here: michel life story & responses
*so what’s the contribution.. you have to define this as a community.. this and this and this we will recognize as input.. t..
*perhaps wrong question.. like asking addict why addiction rather than why pain..ask..what are you curious about today.. won’t get back to an undisturbed ecosystem (aka: save the world) unless we let go of all these false/toxic conditions
then we have thermo dynamic accounting .. (then describe doughnut econ ness – planetary boundaries)
gotta go in first – or wasting resources
this is just to give you an idea of what i’m working on now
1:29 – then the big news.. i just joined the electoral list of the greens.. so am a candidate for the european elections – symbolic
my priority: ethical livelihoods.. sustainable material production and policy/politics based transition at society level.. so move to transnational positions.. blockchain/open-source communities
1:31 – be careful how we gain power.. there’s a lot we can do to *make our societies more resilient and prepare the ground for a deep systemic shift
imagine if we just set up the infra so that the shift can take place all at once.. a leap.. because it’s based on what any human already wants/craves.. no need to *make people anything.. just set them free in this infra
ie: let’s do this first: free art-ists.
if i were in a position to do this.. this is what i would do.. how can i stimulate my citizens to be more autonomous.. to work together w other places in the world.. and to create mutualized provisioning systems that are life on the planet ie: mobility, housing.. create mutual open source repositories.. so that we can all do it all (fair bnb, mini ride, et al)
true on it having to be all of us.. but we need an infra that wakes us all up (detoxes) us at same time.. so that we’re truly seeking eudaimoniative surplus rather than the waste we’ve been perpetuating for years and years.. by thinking we are whales in sea world
so we would build this basic global infra.. that would spread.. not thru the nation.. but that would spread laterally
1:32 – then you need to defend yourself.. that doesn’t change
it does if you go deep enough that those who you would be defending against are also included.. again.. has to be everyone from the get go.. or it won’t work
this is what the labour movement did (had power/infra)
and those factions didn’t work..
this is problem today w occupy and yellow vests.. they don’t build resources.. capital for the commons
no.. we need a mech to wake everyone up.. we need to focus on augmenting interconnectedness.. again.. or otherwise we’re building/wasting resources we don’t really need/want