i was finishing Pinker’s the better angels of our nature…  just as the american sniper came out.. so also reading review/opinions on that.. made me wonder much about civilization. my question from Pinker… is violence less.. or just more civilized about violence….. ie: meds we give people, increase in prison population, suicide rate.

i don’t know.


then while swimming a bit in the thought maybe site.. the idea ferments..


too large to comprehend.. too big to change..

people don’t care about fish being left to eat.. because they are in cities… separated.. from the wild. enslaved to a life full of abstract duties made up in an artificial world to keep them addicted to civilization and blindfolded to other ways of lives…

these are no accidents.. just the results of people believing in the domestication of each other and the environment

8 min – idea that machines can organize systems… the world is a system.. and the politicians duty was to maintain that system.. our definition of system is too small – leaves out the immeasurable..

we made it impossible to live in one place without taking resources from somewhere else… starting seeing everyone as resources.. instead of living souls… property/ownership became huge..

so – what can we do now..

12 min – convince me i will change the world by changing the way i shop?

civilization is not sustainable because it’s based on cities.. competition… consumerism..

any way of life based on use of non-renewable resources two things happen: 1)you require the importation of resources 2) depend on violence..

Derrick Jensen

16 min – we have to stop the civilization from killing us

18 min – why are so many passive/oblivious

25 mi – focus on lifestyle changes.. is less effective… focus on decreasing the demand is to start on the wrong end.. what needs to end is the exploitation itself.. ie: the machines destroying/cutting/spraying…

28 min – outsourcing of basic survival skills.. makes us less resilient..

we are addicted to civilization..  we have to realize we are not dependent on civilization.. but on clean air/water/relationships..

30 min – overconsumption leads to numbness

31 min – people need time and awareness

civilized people addicted to the things that are killing them

32 min – Wade Davis – modernity – not failed attempts at being modern.. but wonderful attempts at being alive

38 min – most of the time civilized people are occupied by work.. they don’t have time to stop civilization… can only be working against the system half time.. half to perpetuate half to protest

41 min – fear is what keeps many people from fighting… fear of losing privilege.. fear of


perhaps a better take/flavor of civilization.. has to do with equitable groundhog day ness. instigating utopia everyday.

a nother way.

perhaps seeing ie: play as subversive, is the myth obliging this manner of civilization we now oblige. when perhaps it’s the civilization that is subversive to our nature. [civilization ness does seem to have intent… and so can’t imagine – and is even fearful of – the idea of play w/o intent. you can fight/define intent/subversive ness.. but it’s hard to battle – aka control – whimsy.]

– – –

forests and streets ness.


share via Michel on fb:

… of civilization:
Keith Chandler:
“There are at least eight principal attributes that clearly characterize all civilized societies:
1. A hierarchical social organization dominated by a power elite which is not accountable to the powerless majority and for whose actions there is little or no redress.
2. Concentration of power and wealth in fortified urban centers.
3. Written language, the understanding and use of which are monopolized by the elite and its functionaries.
4. An economic system which vests title to the wealth produced by the society in the elite and controls that wealth by a strictly measured allocation of all industrial, agricultural, forestry, and mining resources within the control of the central power.
5. Skills, training, and labor specialization designed to serve the goals of the power elite.
6. Extensive slavery or serfdom.
7. A grand mythology portraying society as originating from and continuing to be influenced by suprahuman powers with the elite as the conduit of that influence.
8. A military establishment which is utilized not only for external defense and aggression but also for internal control and repression of the dispossessed majority.”
perhaps.. add #9…
9. books cost (so much) money


burke freedom law


from Gabor Maté‘s when the body says no


cancer and the autoimmune disease of various sorts are, by and large, diseases of civilization.


while industrialized society organized along the capitalist model has solved many problems for many of its members – such as housing, food supply and sanitation – it has also created numerous new pressures even for those who do not need to struggle for the basics of existence…

we have come to take these stresses for granted as inevitable consequences of human life.. as if human life existed in an abstract form separable from the human beings who live it..


from David Shenk’s the forgetting:


in the 1980s, as researchers began to contemplate the possibility of trying to defeat alzheimer’s disease.. the search for a fitting animal mode became paramount. no one could develop a successful alz drug w/o first testing it, and refining it on animals.. in order to save human lives, many thousands of nonhuman lives would first be forfeited to science..

perhaps.. better to not create disease in first place.. perhaps today we have means to leap to that.. restart us.. global do-over.. and for that.. we need enough of us humans modeling a way 7bn could leap to today..

ie: hlb via 2 convos that io dance.. as the day..[aka: not part\ial.. for (blank)’s sake…]..  a nother way


the trouble was that, as far as anyone could tell no other creature naturally suffers from alzheimer’s. it is a disease os sophistication..

oy.. like civilization.. which is a great name for dis ease..

how is this not a red flag..?

so looked for best possible sub.. indications of a less elaborate senile dementia in lesser developed mammals. at ten or eleven yrs of age, they noted, some dogs start to have sleeping trouble, pacing around at night and getting lost in familiar surroundings..

schooling the world.. dogs included..


Audrey Watters (@audreywatters) tweeted at 6:38 AM – 25 Jun 2018 :
Some folks say “civility” and what they mean is docility and compliance (


McKenzie Wark (@mckenziewark) tweeted at 5:56 PM on Mon, Jun 25, 2018:
I find that a useful distinction.

via link.. thread fro m@BigMeanInternet:

I don’t think I’ve ever invoked the idea of “civility” in my entire life. It’s like manners in spite of context, when manners are all about context. What a worthless idea.

My connotation for “civility” is “Being a dick, but with plausible deniability because the social conflicts that structure the world to your advantage are doing the work for you.

And I associate civility with money not just because the rich set the standards for appropriate behavior, but because both money and civility are used as substitutes for actual character.

I also associate it with community leaders who smile and cut ribbons during the day and put on masks before they hurt people at night. It’s about the containment of conflict/violence in its proper sphere.

It’s not for nothing that the word shares an origin with “citizen,” a term that is arguably the world’s central tool for distributing violence and harm.


from Paul J Rosch page:

There is also evidence that increased stresses associated with progressive civilization, contribute to cancer.

Tanchou noted that “cancer like insanity increases in a direct ratio to the civilization of the country”.

Similarly, Roberts wrote in Malignancy and Evolution (1926), “I take the view commonly held that, whatever its origin, cancer is very largely a disease of civilization”.

civilization ness

Sir Robert McCarrison, a physician who had studied 11,000 Hunza natives in Kashmir from 1904-1911. Cancer was unknown, and these individuals seemed to preserve their youthful physique and appearance well into their sixties and seventies, and to enjoy unusual longevity. McCarrison attributed this to the fact that they were “far removed from the refinement of civilization…..and endowed with a nervous system of notable stability”. Both Stefansson and Schweitzer believed this had nothing to do with diet, but resulted entirely from the stresses associated with progressive civilization.

higashida autism law


ronald wright on culture and civilization – 2012 – interview on progress (24 min):


9 min – culture is everything.. all of the belief/practices/styles.. of any society..  passed on rather than being innate.. civilization has a specific meaning.. essentially a culture/society that has reached a certain size/scale/complexity.. really don’t get civilization until after slow growth of agriculture.. end of last ice age.. the first experiments w farming only go back about 10-11 000 years.. ie: planting seeds.. then gardening into full scale agri.. then get a boom in population and social classes..  civilization..

civilization ness

11 min – i don’t think we’re necessarily any worse than others.. just because of tech advance and large numbers of us able to do more damage to earth than those in past

12 min – i consider it an experiment in civilization.. an experiment the jury hasn’t pronounced on yet.. what we have now is one big world civilization.. so no untouched pristine untouched pockets left.. that might proceed if we fail.. all no resting on one big high stakes throw

13 min – progress traps – begin very successful.. seductive.. ie: ice age hunters.. ruined hunting.. kill 200 mammoths rather than 2 rather than 1

16 min – i think civilization itself could be a progress trap.. our job is to make sure it isn’t.. we have to take what’s good and use that to build good progress.. something that will last.. rather than burning up everything for a short term binge.. right now we don’t know if we’re capable of doing that

17 min – i’m a great admirer of civilization and i want our experiment to succeed.. but as we do these things.. we’re putting everything at risk.. certainly everything we would think of as a civilized life..

ronald in doc – surviving progress:

31 min – (ronald): on civilization blazing down pristine places.. then another blaze starting somewhere else.. and now.. we have one huge civilization all around the world.. which we have to confront the possibility that the entire experiment of civilization is in itself a progress trap


from david graeber rt

David Wengrow (@davidwengrow) tweeted at 5:32 AM – 2 Oct 2018 :
Why do we cling to a concept of “Civilisation” that’s elitist, authoritarian, and systematically excludes the contributions of women? Current events in the Middle East tell us it’s time to rethink #civilisations – my new ideas piece @aeonmag (

There is something wrong here. The word ‘civilisation’ stems from a very different source and ideal. In ancient times, civilis meant those qualities of political wisdom and mutual aid that permit societies to organise themselves through voluntary coalition

What until now has passed for ‘civilisation’ might in fact be nothing more than a gendered appropriation – by men, etching their claims in stone – of some earlier system of knowledge that had women at its centre.

From such a starting point, we can see the true history of living civilisation. It reaches back far beyond the earliest monarchies or empires, resisting even the most brutal incursions of the modern state. It’s a civilisation we really can recognise when we see it, taste it, touch it, even in these darkest hours. There can be no justification for the wanton destruction of ancient monuments. But let’s not confuse that with the living pulse of civilisation, which often resides in what at first glance seems small, domestic or mundane. There we will find it, beating patiently, waiting for the light.


from Judith Herman’s trauma & recovery:


rape and combat might thus be considered complementary social rites of initiation into the coercive violence at the foundation of adult society..t


bauwens civilization collapse law

David Wengrow‘s what makes civilization


control.. structural violence.. et al