boundaryless convers

boundaryless convers

via Simone Cicero and

co founder: Lisa Gansky


adding page this day:

I’m so proud today to release a deep and thoughtful #BoundarylessConversationPodcast with one of my mentors and great friends @mbauwens. We covered so much ground, and laid out our foresight for the economic transition we are living #commons @Boundaryless_
Original Tweet:

with michel

1 hour podcast with Michel and Simone

5 min – m: one thing we wanted to address.. value regime.. extractive et al.. ie: if you do carework.. don’t get funded.. et al

7 min – if don’t have capital.. going to use mutualization.. as long as extractive system works.. even if destructive.. creates situation where generative activity is marginalized

8 min – reaching point of no return (in current system).. creates resource issues..

so 1st regime: value 2: we live in hybrid society .. have diff ways of exchanging value 1\ market  2\ gift  3\ commoning  4\ redistribution

commoning makes other 3 irrelevant

in undisturbed ecosystems ..the average individual, species, or population, left to its own devices, behaves in ways that serve and stabilize the whole..’ –Dana Meadows

10 min – m: mistake we make in commoning is thinking it’s (enough) .. commons on own is not sufficient


m: i think it’s much more fruitful to think in combinations.. ie: if market player.. ask.. how can we use the commons

12 min – m: commoners shouldn’t be thinking about doing on own 100% pure way.. we should be thinking what kind of marketers/state-forms work for the commons

s: commons doesn’t need to be totalistic.. reminds me of convo w john robb.. it’s a value issue.. ie: care work not funded.. if don’t see more commons based reproduction may be epistemological problem.. just want to consume.. on other hand.. political issue.. if commons need to come on top.. need to take it politically.. discussion on how we run our markets et al.. i feel the point of return is already here.. so how do you see that happening.. political or epistemology

16 min – m: i just finished writing an essay i’m really happy about.. called the pulsation of the commons

notes on essay:

The body of ideas and research on the commons is a critical part of the second movement of the Anthropocene: our capacity to interpret and understand ourselves in the current era; while the praxis of the commons, termed “commoning,” is critical to the third movement of the Anthropocene, our reflexive planetary responses..t

yeah.. maybe we have that all backwards.. we keep being in a mode of response/reflex.. to our own demise..

In practical terms, with respect to our atmosphere, everyone is a commoner, and this implies a radical democratization of planetary governance..t

or perhaps.. a radical letting go.. ie: ‘in undisturbed ecosystems ..the average individual, species, or population, left to its own devices, behaves in ways that serve and stabilize the whole..’ –Dana Meadows

back to the podcast:

looking at diff schools of thought.. all come to similar conclusion.. that history moves in waves.. pulsating.. have extractive then have regenerative *reactions.. for the revival of the commons.. so this pulsation is not unusual.. i would say is the rule

yeah.. i don’t know.. that’s more like a cycle we can’t seem to let go of rather than something natural.. (ie: a cycle of whales in sea world) .. today we have means to not *react.. play defense.. but rather to leap to a nother way to live.. where we get to energy of 8b alive people

21 min – m: i think today a lot of people want to care for the planet.. and the system hasn’t yet made that happen.. but the desire is there..t

that’s why leaping to 100% .. is not ridiculous.. ie: if mech in place.. all of us would gladly leap

mech/tech as it could be.. via 2 convers as infra

not to mention.. if it’s not 100%.. we’re just spinning wheels in old cycle.. tragedy of the non common

28 min – m: twofold problem 1\ have weak commons institutions  2\ have state forms that can’t cooperate w these commons.. i think italy has given some ie’s of how this could be done.. how to smooth operation between those 2 worlds..

strong commons institution: 2 convers as infra.. makes state ness irrelevant

34 min – s: on the need to scale and to go local.. are we left w a conundrum

m: i’m not saying it will be easy.. some challenges require trans national frameworks..

that’s why commoning needs to be 100%.. global and local et al

m: we need counting tools to allow us to see world differently..

literacy and numeracy both elements of colonialism.. we need to calculate differently and stop measuring things

38 min – m: ie: global council would set limits.. freedom stops where endanger life of another.. and international not big enough.. has to be planetary survival.. so vision i have is globally shared supply chains.. supports stigmergy.. and once we have accounting can also apply it to production.. ie: blockchain .. no single co

who then is deciding what is endangering others..? we just recreated inspectors of inspectors.. so tragedy of the non common

41 min – m: commission of experts on copper.. that gives you boundaries.. w/in boundaries you are free.. but can’t cross boundaries.. stigmergy.. is that i can see all other ie: leather makers.. and i can adapt my behavior

? production isn’t the point of life..

42 min – m: what we want to avoid where everyone is rationed.. so.. public ledger.. tokenized.. thru taxation/contribution you found activities.. ie: pay kids who cycle

let go

47 min – s: on john robb saying ‘i want to be able to connect globally on my own terms’..t

ie: cure ios city

48 min – m: we have physical bodies and we live in territories.. i think what is missing is nation state is a very contradictory institution, but it also represents a “common good” institution

51 min – m: we can’t have a completely new system that ignores nation state when the nation state is still dominant and powerful

i don’t know.. we could offer something even people controlling nation states want/crave.. so that nation state ness becomes irrelevant

52 min – other host: asking about mutation of consciousness.. what is the cultural shift in that.. how could we nurture citizens to look for that

53 min – m: i think you should start probably in school..

oy.. (in his defense.. he describes what’s wrong w school as is. . and describes what changes needed)

let’s just facil daily curiosity  ie: cure ios city

54 min – m: the children are involved.. (in solving problems).. we are largely lost already.. so used to consumption..

missing vast amount of energy

need curiosity over decision making/problem-solving

55 min – m: like a programming of world view and that has to be done very early

rather.. not scrambled in the first place

57 min – m: only way to go to new stable system is thru chaotic transition.. then need pedagogical catastrophes.. corona is a wake up call

1:00 – m: i think in west too focused on revolutionary moment.. shouldn’t wait for this magic moment.. all these little changes..


Simone Cicero (@meedabyte) tweeted at 0:11 AM on Tue, Apr 28, 2020:
Today we’re releasing a new episode of our #BoundarylessConversations #podcast  at @Boundaryless_ with management luminaire and my dear friend @bill_fischer – we covered a lot of ground in discussing the transformation of large org into #ecosystem enablers

with bill

16 min – haier always complements dreams w extreme details.. w/o that missing underpinnings of how this can happen

details/structural-elements: 2 convers as infra via tech as it could be..


Simone Cicero (@meedabyte) tweeted at 3:14 AM on Tue, May 05, 2020:
I’m so glad I can release now this podcast with my dear friend and inspiration @stoweboyd – an unmissable deep dive in the future of organizing through #ecosystems and #platforms for a more relevant #futureofwork

with stowe

convo too based on assumption of business/consumerism et al for me.. though simone seemed to keep bringing it back to .. isn’t there another way to org us.. ie: at 34 min.. stowe’s answer .. smaller groups of ‘consumers’.. ‘so diff from normal hierarchical forms’

yeah.. not so diff.. let’s org like this: 2 convers as infra..

39 min – simone: still feel like in capitalistic frame

40 min – stoye: distributive governance as commons.. so everybody thinks it’s fair.. that makes it possible for people to work in ecosystem w/o thinking have to cover back all the time

yeah.. that’s not commoning.. that’s tragedy of the non common.. and won’t ever work..

gotta let go any form of measuring/accounting

49 min – (what govt org approach): stowe: uses general mcchrystal against iraq as ie..  so we need to find these people/leaders today.. and get them in charge.. leadership has to take on more characteristics of women to be more effective.. we have to adopt diff set of psych characteristics in our leaders in order to make this transition


no.. i think we need to let go of the whole ‘leader‘ ness thinking

and talk about.. try..  legit innovation.. org of a diff color..



lisa on boundaryless


daniel on boundaryless


indy on boundaryless


Jeff Emmett (@jeffemmett) tweeted at 8:40 AM on Thu, Jun 11, 2020:
Very fun interview with @Boundaryless_ on the @commonsstack!  Thanks to @meedabyte @HeikkilaStina @RenzoDan5 for the great conversations about the Token Engineering design process, digital twins, the tools to build commons-based economies and much more!

hmm.. i think if you’re tokening.. you’re not common\ing

june 2020 – 80 min video – Boundaryless B Sides Stories: Crypto-Powered Commons-Engineering with Jeff Emmett from Commons Stack

with jeff

7 min – j: common stack is aiming to bring token engineering, modeling, and simulation and design into the rigorous design of useful components in the dao ecosystem.. seen lots of protocols working on very neat parts ie: holographic consensus; budget boxing; quadratic voting; .. great mechs.. but when combine.. lots of ways they can fail.. non intuitively.. so trying to bring into the space the token engineering rigor.. to understand bounds.. failure points.. complex because starts w math principles

dao ness


consensus, budget, voting.. red flags

skimmed rest


with joe


A tremendous podcast. I’ve listened three times to it. So much wisdom ans insights about our present
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with nicolas


4 min – so what looks like radical change for many people.. is only an acceleration of pre existing change for people who were paying attention

7 min – computing and networks.. 2 major tech.. that explain radical change we’re experiencing.. in the moment.. i was on hunt for shorter expression.. and settled on entrepreneurial age – which is supported by computing and networks.. more and more individuals are empowered .. connected by networks..

9 min – entrepreneurs taking charge – an econ in which mult of individuals have more power than orgs.. and networks come w radical/widespread instability..  everything becomes radically uncertain.. only way to survive is to become more entrepreneurial.. paying attention to what people need.. ready to experiment/fail..  entrepreneurials are the elite (in this age)

needs to be all of us.. everyday.. ie: cure ios city

15 min – individuals are the nodes now.. rather than ie: train stations.. since don’t own individuals.. have to serve them to keep them.. you can lose them all in an instant.. so need to improve product.. decrease price.. move faster..

18 min – 6 yrs ago we thought uber (in china) would be to transport what google was to search.. 2 yrs later.. uber kicked out of china.. then kicked out of se asia.. then confronted w very tough competition

21 min – we’re realizing.. no such thing as global tech co except for a few.. ie: google, netflix, .. lesson is.. we’ve lived w an illusion that digital markets will always be global.. realizing those markets are regional/national.. witnessing beginning of co’s adapting new strategy to compete across several geographies.. even more difficult in future to expand your business across borders..

the money (any form of measuring/accounting) is the border we need to let go of.. keeping people in/out

23 min – pandemic makes govt stronger.. we look to them for help.. so after pandemic will end up w stronger govts.. w better regulations.. will lead to even more fragmented regulation.. tech leaders need to be prepared for that

30 min – on industry changes being diff.. and returns on equity being diff.. the more tangible assets.. the more reg’s.. less returns (ie: music to real estate).. restaurants hard to manage scientifically

wish we could use this rare global pause to let go of thinking everything is about market

33 min – if your supply chain less connected to rest of world.. less affected by risks/crises.. et al

38 min – now more power outside than inside orgs.. that’s the key to understanding.. need to learn to harness that power.. ie: profits.. winning election


whales in sea world


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link twitter

We help organizations build platforms that mobilize Ecosystems. Pioneers in Platform-Ecosystem Thinking. Creators of the original #PlatformDesignToolkit


siddiqi border law: every border implies the violence of its maintenance – Ayesha Siddiqi

via David Graeber (structural violence et al – rev in reverse):

“There’s all these imaginary lines around the world with not-so-imaginary weapons protecting them.” @davidgraeber
Over 5 years ago and still relevant
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constant line law: Can you draw a line that welcomes without also excluding?In Constant’s theory.. every line is violent.. Every line has to be undone. Every line has to be provisional, dotted, blurred, contested. [from Mark Wigley‘s take on Constant’s.. new babylon]


2) Ecosystems: @meedabyte @HeikkilaStina if responsive & Boundaryless, how do we see “the self” as individual, community, organization or SocialOS? Again, forces new language, tools, metrics & ethos regarding value, risk & identity. #PerpetualLearning #interdependence

Original Tweet:

data focus: self-talk as data/detox

new language: idio-jargon

ie: cure ios city

@instigating @HeikkilaStina I increasingly see the role of self in the new SocialOS as “source” (in Peter Koenig’s terms): create or bust!

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lisa arthur & tomas on decent govt

lisa michel & john on local global