via Douglas Rushkoff
you are not alone
solidarity.. it does take a village
at least you know who the other guys are.. on the assembly line.. can go for a beer together after work.. not so with amazon turk..
ways to keep people docile: 1\ give him a mortgage 2\ put in little individual homes that don’t allow for neighborhood/lateral … convos..
keep separate so everyone needs own.. ie: lawn mower
so get opposite.. get team me.. ie: where’s my kid getting into college rather than where’s the good ed for the whole town
media changed from harth that family would gather around.. to the media of isolation.. ie: on different seasons.. i’m a walking spoiler.. can’t even use as a common ground.. just one more path to sad isolation
how do we get shared experience back… ie: super bowl… guilt in that.. young men getting concussions; price to attend;…. feels like there are no shared experiences on offer to us
hard to find each other…
wondering if disenfranchisement is a new kind of…. what if all of us individuals actually came together… what kind of mechanism would help us to reconnect..
mech simple enough.. matching locally everyday.. via curiosity
our increasing disenfranchisement/isolation pushes us to a fringe where we find each other again.. ie: can’t make ends meet.. i feel really alone.. accepting that isolation/alienation.. is the beginning of finding our community experience.. reversing that 70+ yrs process.. where guilds were separated..
14 min – esteban: people crave connection more than any one job or any one person…
more on esteban from site:
Playing for Team Human is Esteban Kelly. Kelly is an exemplary leader in the movement for promoting solidarity and workplace democracy. While working with the Mariposa Food Co-op, Kelly founded the Food Justice and Anti Racism working group. He was also appointed by the Mayor of Philadelphia to the Philadelphia Food Policy Advisory Council. Currently, Esteban Kelly serves as Co-Executive director of the US Federation of Worker Cooperatives as well as a director of AORTA, the Anti- Oppression Resource and Training Alliance. Kelly is also a co-founder and current board member of the Philadelphia Area Cooperative Alliance (PACA).
16 min – people gravitating to coops.. are well off… case needs to be made for people who need it most.. ie: working 3 jobs.. make it hard to conceive of it.. to go do it and find it.. – douglas
18 min – esteban sharing how that has changed..
23 min – douglas on ie: twitter.. could be connecting us.. but this giant group of shareholders to pay back..
25 min – esteban – coop – distributing familial bond/risks..
27 min – douglas – if you’re under 50.. the idea of a regular job is foreign.. ie: with security et al
28 min – esteban – funny how our core values (democracy/voice) becomes a hobby or side project.. ie: you can have voice in after school club..
35 min – douglas – coops work better in bonded communities.. where they can experience the benefits..
36 min – esteban – on counter to that..
41 min – esteban – all interconnectedness.. produce this hyper individualized thing..
45 min – we believe in living in hope (aorta).. moving past guilt and shame.. dwelling in that dark place.. on having the convos w/o feeling drained..
can you common and measure..?
i think we’re missing an opp.. by not letting go of the measuring..
douglas rushkoff (@rushkoff) tweeted at 7:25 PM – 4 Oct 2017 :
This week on TeamHuman: how humans got less nutrition and less free time after the invention of agriculture https://t.co/TnBoOru45F (http://twitter.com/rushkoff/status/915749832668696576?s=17)
25 min – douglas – the question.. why do you have to grow the econ forever .. we’ve accepted that as a premise of nature.. when really just rule of 13th cent econ operatingn system.. invented to slow the rise of the middle class.. and if that’s all it is.. if it’s not a foundational principle of human transaction.. but one hack by one small group of wealthy people.. we should be able to abandon it a heck of a lot easier
27 min – the sooner we understand that.. the sooner we’ll be able to redesign..
28 min – we’re in 400 yrs of enslaving debt based econ.. disconnecting that from our reality seems a requirement if going to move back into carrying capacity of our planet – douglas
35 min – community resilience.. not changing human nature.. but our current econ pushes human nature in direction of competition/addiction.. that’s not sum total of who we are..
37 min – we have to revive aspects of ourselves that we’ve let slip away
doulgas: what do you see as mechs for that
let’s try 2 convos
40 min – have to renegotiate our community connections.. fastest way.. tragedy – douglas
richard gives ie’s.. people tend to share at those times
let’s not wait for that.. dang.
douglas rushkoff (@rushkoff) tweeted at 6:43 AM – 10 Jan 2018 :
Back from 2 weeks hiatus, @teamhumanshow with P2P maestro Stacco Troncoso on commons sense, and me on how the Russia story is distracting us from fundamental changes in American law and policy, and the real, new, suffering and death it’s causing. https://t.co/wwzJuAxS1y (http://twitter.com/rushkoff/status/951087063142666240?s=17)
Stacco starts at 8 min
My hero Howard Rheingold @hrheingold on @teamhumanshow recorded live in SF at @GrayAreaorg – on mind amplification. Then a conversation with Howard and @Annaleen Newitz about whether reality can be reduced to a machine. https://t.co/1aCh1B6e8v
Original Tweet: https://twitter.com/rushkoff/status/971437349275099136
4 min – h: the output device in 77 was a teletype.. i just got into involved.. because.. i heard that you could write on a computer screen and didn’t have to retype your pages over and over again .. and when i got my hands on one i realized.. this was not just a better typewriter.. that it was a mind amplifier
6 min – d: first realizations that it’s all connected.. first fractal.. security.. hunger.. environ.. .. w one fundamental thing going on a certain level.. personal mind change can make all the problems solvable..
7 min – h: i don’t know about making them all solvable.. but it seemed apparent even then in early 80s.. well it was apparent to me earlier.. when i ws 16-17.. that in my lifetime we were going to see the human race come to some kind of conclusion..
8 min – h: lsd/acid and willis outer body.. all these things converging.. seeing they couldn’t really be solve instrumentally.. that it had to do w people changing their minds.. now that we’re having 2nd thoughts about the world that we’ve built.. there’s a lot of echoes what happened in 19th cent when people started moving from villages to cities.. community to society.. a lot of fears/arguments.. are really echoed by kinds of fears we have today..
9 min – h: willis’s conviction.. and he was my mentor.. i was in my 30s.. was that we were at the beginning of a global mind change.. and that mind change would enable individuals to understand our role in averting the disaster.. that was coming
d: and you were a true believer in that sense
10 min – h: well .. i was a believer in that everything that i was taught was probably wrong.. and i think that’s the one thing we had in common from our lsd experience.. that there are many other ways to see the world than the one we’re taught.. continuing the process of schooling.. which is really training people to comply with social order.. (via annalee?).. when she said that i realized i remembered that the first thing i understood when i faced a class of students was.. some de programming was going to have to be involved here..if we’re really going to get back to learning..
11 min – h: it’s the instrumental vs the sacred.. what can we do to that will enable us to have more energy/time/food.. vs what are we doing that’s meaningful to us..
12 min – h: joseph weisenbaum wrote a book.. in 60s.. called computer power and human reason.. he was part of the original ai lab at mit and .. he created the first bot.. eliza – that would do a trick.. asking you leading questions.. he became disturbed how people took this seriously.. went pretty far eliza.. and he said (in book).. computers enable us to write very large part – a part of human capability.. which is reason.. but reason is not the only thing that makes us human.. we’re all kind of floating on the enlightenment assumption that reason is better than blind belief.. and that knowing more is better than not knowing.. and i believe that and admit it’s my prejudice .. but we see it manifesting in a way that’s become autonomous from our desires/needs as humans..
13 min – h: human starting re shaping the planet actually before homo sapiens.. a couple of hundred thousand years ago using fire.. and roughly 10 000 yrs of agri civilization.. so people lived in diff way for 20-30 times longer that we livied in these aggregations of cities and w social hierarchies.. and w tech and agri.. .. the narrative has been that there’s progress from savagery to civilization.. somehow h g’s were living a some way that was less desirable.. then when we start applying reason to the way we live.. in a more mechanical way.. mechanical in the sense of treating humans as components in a larger machine
d: right.. rather than parts of nature.. than gears in machine are two diff ways of looking at it
15 min – d: when first meeting you..and .. the well.. digi tech wasn’t the big deal yet.. but psychedelics seemed to be the way we found each other.. then there was a sense that we were part of this conscious conspiracy.. to enable humanity’s if not ascent at least improvement
h: well.. there was something wrong and something right about those early revelations.. what was right was.. the way that i and everyone has been enculturated.. is not the only way to be.. that we have been trained this way.. there was the idea that if everyone could see that .. that life would be better.. but it turns out .. that leaves out a lot of other problems..
16 min – d: leary (known for advocating the exploration of the therapeutic potential of psychedelic drugs under controlled conditions) said.. the digi tech was like psychedelics.. and the internet was like lsd.. and now everyone’s gonna take it.. and if he was right .. in a sense.. then humanity is not living on a psychedelic substraight.. only because we’re so utterly unprepared for psychedelics and we have such an awful set and setting.. humanity is having this bad trip
17 min – h: well.. i called it a mind amplifier.. what’s really interesting about tech is not that enables us to harness more energy.. but that it enables us to extend our power to perceive/think/communicate.. and along the way .. it intersected w capitalism.. and i remember sitting on my law in 91-92 thinking.. what’s the most important thing..that this social communication and computers would lead to.. what are the more important critical uncertainties.. and i concluded.. well.. are we going to be more free as individuals.. is democracy going to be stronger.. that led me to the notion of the public sphere.. not just about electing your leaders.. it’s about having a population who are free enough.. educated enough.. to argue about issues.. to form an opinion.. to shape policy
wondering if we were truly free.. if we’d spend our days.. ie: arguing about ways to shape policy.. i’m thinking not.. i’m thinking we’d all by pre occupied with making/doing/being our art.. the art we can’t not do.. and the art the world needs..
i think.. thinking we have to have a democracy where we can be heard on certain issues.. is something we were trained to believe..
18 min – h: and podermous’s fear was that the manipulation of opinion thru public relations and the corruption of journalism.. would enable people w power and money to manipulate the public sphere.. but what none of us really saw was that the tech capability of surveillance and data veillance of everybody and the manipulation of attention would become a machine for making money.. a very attractive one.. for those of us who are caught up in it.. so i think it’s very very recent that people have started recognizing the fact that we are sort of trapped..
fractal of uni no..? via stefano..
19 min – d: on john barlow.. govt really seemed like the enemy.. then wired has him write.. and he writes ie: govts of world beware.. don’t need you here.. go away.. this is cyberspace ..leave us alone.. .. what we didn’t realize.. and maybe he did .. if you make the internet a govt and regulation free zone.. what you’ve done is opened it up to capitalism and corporatism.. it’s like if you take antibiotics and kill all the bacteria in your body then the fungus grows.. so .. *it’s sort of that.. you get rid of govt then corporatism grew.. and then we got this commercial net that’s been really hard to recontextualize ever since.. **do you think we had too much faith in some.. that we’d be able to do this w/o top down regulation..
*well.. kind of .. not really .. that would mean you’re comparing govt to the self-reg in our natural bodies.. right..? that’s way diff…
**i’m thinking it’s more that we didn’t offer an true alt to the cancerous govt reg
21 min – h: well the question of regulation is how many troops are you going to send to columbia.. to iceland.. who’s going to regulate it.. and that’s always been a huge issue.. and now of course we’re seeing that there’s a chinese internet and a persian internet and an american internet.. and it’s become balkinized (divide into smaller mutually hostile states or groups) in that sense.. i think we tend to talk about these kind of things in mechanician terms.. i think it’s more complicated than that.. life is much much better for a lot of people because of this machine we’re trapped in and it’s also a big problem.. and if you want to start pulling on that thread.. it goes a long way back.. if you start talking about humans and our relation to tech.. you’ve got to realize that we’ve got these hands.. that grasp things.. tech has been a part of what we do for a lot longer than our second thoughts about what we’re doing to us
22 min – d: tim leary used to say that marxists were the least psychedelic people in the world.. he thought marxism and psychedelics were in compatible.. which is interesting.. do you think psychedelia has a kind of optimism to it that’s more compatible w libertarian capitalist.. neoliberal mindset.. the sort of globalist totalitarian mindset.. all is one.. one market.. open market..
23 min – h: well.. you’re talking about a world of 20-30 yrs ago.. and times/people change.. *i think having your eyes open to the fact that you’re taught how to see the world and that we are interconnected in ways that we are not taught.. is important.. but that doesn’t mean that you’re going to be able to make things better.. just by knowing that..
*this is huge to what i think we’re missing.. (along with thinking so many are doing better) .. i don’t think very many.. have had their eyes opened.. the blinding ness is so pervasive.. and subtle.. and compulsory.. i mean.. we can’t even question/get-out of..a school ness mindset.. even though we seem to be saying the right words about that.. i think we could make things better.. if everyone knew that.. but such a small fraction are free enough to know/admit it.. and when/if some small number does.. it’s all out of sync enough.. that it can’t make an impact on the blindness..
h: although again.. back to this enlightenment belief system.. i thought about this for a long time .. when i first started writing about where would digi media take us.. i wrote.. in 85.. i was not thinking myself as a scholar/academic.. but as a freelance writer.. trying to tell a true story.. the best i could.. but immediately i got a lot of critiques from academics.. about their fears.. where this would go.. so i really started thinking about it critically early on ..
24 min – h: then in early 90s i wrote about where social communication thru computers and networks going to go .. and then in the early 2000s.. what about these devices we’re carrying with us.. finally.. my conclusion was.. it really depends on what people know.. so there’s a missing element between the economics and the mechanics.. which is the know how.. and i’d have to say that my most optimistic scenario now is that we’re really in a world divided between.. not the haves and the have nots.. so much as the .. know how to use this stuff and don’t know how to use this stuff . .
perhaps that’s a red flag we’re doing it wrong.. ie: if we have to train.. perhaps it should be sans econ..
25 min – h: unfortunately.. *there’s a proportion of people who don’t know how to use it or use it in a malevolent way.. that has poisoned the commons.. will we ever get to a point where it will become better..? or will we simply have people who know how to find their way thru the dangerous stuff to do what they need to do for themselves..
*i think it’s more that people are coping in those ways .. because we’re compulsorizing/domineering something that is unnatural/unknown.. if we would use tech as it could be.. for something that’s already known/in-each-person.. we wouldn’t have this issue.. of.. a need to learn .. in order to know.. the basics..
27 min – h: i’ve been accused of being an optimist for a long time.. and i’m really not.. how can you know anything about history and really know what’s going on right now and be terribly optimistic.. but when i was pretty young i decided that the only nihilist was a suicidal nihilist.. and i didn’t want to do that .. so i decided to choose to be hopeful..
28 min – h: i think w’ere in general descended from creatures who said.. there must be someway out of this terrible situation.. so .. thinking that does not guarantee that you’re going to survive.. but not thinking that.. is pretty much a guarantee that you won’t.. so.. i don’t really know what the big answer is.. but i think a little answer is.. spread truthfulness..
29 min – h: it may be too late in a sense.. so i wrote about what i think are the fundamental social literacies.. starting w attention.. this was 2012.. and it’s pretty clear now that *attention is the handle that we’ve been grabbed by.. and .. **you know it’s not coercive.. we like to put our attention into these apps that are sucking our attention and selling it.. to advertisers.. and you know .. this wasn’t created as a conspiracy.. it just evolved..
**maybe not coercion.. but voluntary compliance.. simulated thinking blindness.. the sway as petter talks.. any which way.. i don’t believe it’s our first choice.. i don’t believe we’re truly freely choosing our days..
30 min – d: you’ve experienced the threat of extinction on a personal level.. a cancer survivor.. you came out on the other side a survivor.. done w books.. now you’re an artist..
31 min – h: well i was lucky.. a lot not so lucky.. well . . if you do survive it.. there’s a huge gift .. which is.. people ask me.. how i am .. and i think.. i don’t have cancer.. what’s the problem.. and i truly believe.. this is not a joke.. that the secret to happiness is having appropriate expectations.. most of what we suffer in life.. has to do w wanting more than we have at the moment.. so.. i can breathe/stand/shit/see.. i’m happy w that .. it ain’t gonna last forever.. i’m completely aware i’ve had 8 years of extra innings.. it helps..
32 min – d: and you’re an artist w/o running ads on your art.. you started a patreon
33 min – h: i can’t encompass a big solution to these problems we’ve been talking about .. but i think that embracing small ones.. is a good idea..
h: one way we got into this is that small step on the banner ad.. maybe we can get out of it.. what i love about patreon.. two things.. 1\ it’s a diff business model.. it’s not about attention/surveillance/advertising.. it’s about people paying creators.. and creators paying each other.. remember ted nelson’s original dream for what the net was going to be.. that we would pay each other micro payments for what we were doing.. if you read alan kay.. and what ted nelson have to say these days about the way the web went.. they believe a lot of the problems we have are essentially problems that stem from tim berners lee.. not really understanding the visions that they originally.. i don’t think that’s going to overwhelm advertising as an econ engine.. but it’s a little green space there..
34 min – h: and the other thing i like about it.. 2\ is the diff between an audience and a public.. when you write a book.. it’s the message in the bottle and maybe you meet somebody eventually who read the book.. but you’re not so connected w them.. and that was one of the things we both loved about the well.. you could write and get immediate response.. for it.. and audience.. are kind of faceless out there.. and you broadcast to them.. and they pay you.. but a public can talk back to you.. they can link to you.. they can dispute w you.. they can give you ideas.. having a public in mind .. who like what you do well enough to pay you a dollar or two a month gives you a very diff mindset when you’re creating.. than when you are creating a book for a publisher and the publishing world..
what if there was no money.. imagine that diff mindset for creating..
35 min – h: and also.. i did the book game.. for most of my life.. and i’m not interested in doing the art game.. this is a way i can make my art and show my art to people.. since this all started.. i spend a lot of time everyday.. sharing knowledge w people.. just pumping it out there.. that’s the way you become a writer.. that’s what writers do.. you don’t have to be paid for everything.. you do.. and it turned out very quickly.. *for everything i put out i get 10x back.. that is i think one of the things that’s really a great legacy of the internet culture.. if you do pay attention to and respect and help people.. they will help you back.. there’s a kind of social capital that **many many people are able to use online.. and i like the idea of there being a little green space in this terribly mechanized cultural world in which people are appreciating each other’s contributions..
*but that’s you howard.. it works for you and amanda.. kind of (you still have to spend some of your time/mindset selling it some).. but it’s working for you to some extent.. because you’re already well known.. how will that work for the homeless guy.. or the guy in jail.. or the refugee..
not knocking what you’re doing/saying.. i just believe there’s currently.. a nother way for 7 bn of us.. to be free.. and we’re missing it..
**not enough.. has to be all of us.. (because it can be all of us today)
37 min – d: (on us liking to see into his mind because he models experiencing awe) .. in society it feels like so many potential experiences for awe have been kind of micro dosed.. like lsd became prosac.. or the net.. collective mind became the cookie cutter profiles of fb.. the places i used to look for awe have become very predictable/limited.. where do you look for awe.. what’s your source of awe these days..
h: you know.. we’re taught not to appreciate awe.. and we’re taught to comply w a kind of grey world.. very early in my schooling.. like the 2nd grade.. i could not physically sit in that little cramped desk all day.. and i particularly didn’t want to listen to things i already knew.. you know.. (on it being called add now) .. pathologizing attention that’s not narrowly focused.. it’s a long story.. industrial society.. schooling.. we’re grooved into these channels.. there’s a great graphic novel.. called unflattening.. about how all that happens to us.. and i was expelled form the classroom and they sent me to the art room .. and my mom was the art teacher.. and she believed that we’re all artists.. that we all gain pleasure from expressing ourselves creatively.. but that we’re shut down very early.. when someone looks over our shoulder and says.. that doesn’t look like a horse.. you can’t be an artist..
39 min – h: so my mom.. my teacher.. kind of protected my ability to color outside the lines.. and then.. to circle back to psychedelics.. just thru circumstance.. my first psychedelic trip was when jfk was assassinated.. that day.. so a very dark vision of the future of america.. and i can’t say that things have happened any differently from what i saw when i was 16 .. and that’s a kind of apocalyptic way to think when you’re 16..17 yrs old.. so that really forced me to decide.. that i was going to try to find out what was going on .. during this last act of the human story.. *so.. i fought to not have to be interested in just one thing..t
the it is me ness
imagine a mech to listen to and facil 7 bn daily curiosities.. as it could be
40 min – h: when i started teaching students it was really clear.. the students i taught.. were very very good at figuring out what was going to be on the test.. and you know.. we are humans because we love to learn.. because we learn socially.. and no matter how much we are propagandized.. we still have that love of learning in there somewhere.. but boy.. it’s kinda hard to dig it out by the time you’ve got to berkeley or stanford.. so i do think.. one of the things that we have now .. is that.. there used to be a monopoly on learning.. that the schools had.. and if you were a dedicated autodidact.. you could learn some things.. w/o going to school.. but nowadays.. if you were to ask a 14 yr old.. how would you configure a web server.. or learn how to play the ukelele.. i would be that they would say.. i’ll go search on youtube.. you’ve got youtube/wikipedia/google.. *there are resources available to people who want to learn.. that never were available before..
*yet.. not everyone is free – time or getting to those resources wise – in order to take up that offer..
41 min – h: *what’s lacking is the knowledge of how to do it.. because schooling trains us w learned helplessness.. **we receive our learning rather than to engage in it.. so ***i’m very excited about the possibilities of learning outside of the very slow changing ed
*i don’t know.. i don’t think knowledge of how to do it is lacking.. i think again.. it’s that not everyone is free – (time or getting to those resources wise) – in order to take up that offer
**and that engagement comes from w/in .. from daily curiosity.. ie: you’re saying people need to learn web literacy.. to me that sounds like days of old saying people need to learn algebra.. i think those are assumed/mandated.. stepping stones.. for a given/normed agenda.. i mean.. if all i want to do is build treehouses.. or grow carrots.. i might not need the web.. but you’re saying we should do that first..? i go back to your comment.. the love of learning is w/in each of us already.. and if we let that out.. we’ll find a way to learn whatever we want.. whenever..
d: but somehow retaining the joy of the human mimisist.. because so much of learning is being w another human whose.. doing that thing.. not to go to ukelele uni.. but.. this is what a ukelele player does..
indeed doug.. so .. let’s focus on facilitating that.. everyday.. for 7 bn people.. as it could be
42 min – h: well .. i started calling my students co learners.. and that had a remarkable effect .. if you give them permission to cooperate rather than compete.. and *seed it w a few ie’s that are enjoyable.. of course they take to that.. it’s much more interesting/fun to learn together.. and that’s of course **one of the things that social media enables.. is that you can learn together.. w people you may not have ever met or known before.. but share a particular interest with you..
43 min – annalee joins in ..
d: convos blossom in living room.. ability for higher level convo
in a space ness
45 min – a: do you see any line between that belief.. discovering we’re constructed.. and that way that libertarianism works
46 min – h: as usual.. it’s more complicated than that.. the techs we’re talking about.. computers/net.. came from an unexpected collision of
2\ some individuals.. many who had taken lsd.. but in general thought.. we don’t have to do things the way ibm and at&t want us to do them..
and then eventually..
and.. none of those players would have chosen the other one.. but.. there were just some happy circumstances in that .. take the war machine picked this interesting guy by the name of j c r licklider.. who found other interesting people.. like doug engelbart.. and engelbart was really a pure idealist.. again.. affected by his lsd experience.. but his motivation was.. can we make some tools that will help people work together to solve the problems that we’ve created for ourselves.. he deliberately turned down being an entrepreneur.. he didn’t want to be a computer scientist in academia.. but when it turned out that the military industrial complex needed better ways to communicate w computers.. that enabled him to do that.. i think he probably wouldn’t have chosen that.. and they wouldn’t have chosen him.. and then what emerged.. became an amplifier of human capabilities.. and he was an engineer..
48 min – h: and a lot of the things that happened.. would not surprise people who are looking at more of how humans do things.. rather than how machines do things.. so a lot of the elements that we decry (publicly denounce) really come from the amplification of aspects of human nature.. and we think.. how could people do such savage things.. i look at it the other way.. how can such hyper successful predators aspire to what we aspire to
49 min – d: the west culture at that time put self-actualization at the top.. it was self improvement and.. i don’t even believe in the self anymore.. we took a tech that was originally about sharing computer cycles.. and turned it into the personal computer.. which dovetailed so perfectly with you.. you’re the one.. corp capitalism..
a: funny thinking about it that way.. because lsd does fit in nicely to.. i’m the center of everything.. and then think about what howard was saying that internet born between a collision of the military and psychedelic culture.. (i realize that’s reducing a more complicated collision).. it kind of makes the military the good guys in a weird way.. they were the ones that said.. let’s figure out a good way to communicate.. let’s bring people together an make communication simple.. and it’s true.. if you strip away a lot of the other stuff that the military does.. one of the things that’s really important is making sure you can *communicate clearly.. and making sure that large bodies of people are aware of what’s happening.. having situational awareness.. so .. the collectivist tendencies on the internet.. may come from an unexpected place.. that origin story may be that the military is kind of responsible for the collective parts and then *lsd is responsible for like.. snapchat.. filters..
*communicate an agenda clearly.. not communicate clearly..
51 min – d: could say lsd is when we turned the phone on ourselves..
h: i think we’re using lsd as a signifier for consciousness and if you were to remove the drug from the story.. our consciousnesses are expanded thru our use of these techs in ways we never would have dreamed of before.. and you’re talking about the emergence of this diff culture.. things changed.. america was a very conformist society.. one in which racism was part of our laws.. it was a society in which people didn’t question going off to asia and killing a lot of people.. *those things all changed during this same period.. where the causation starts and stops is hard to tell.. but we live in a world in which.. and maybe that’s not so good for americans.. we think in a much less monolithic/unified way.. you know.. it’s the idea of the imagined community.. everyone read the same newspapers and saw the same tv channels.. and got same idea of society.. white people saw that.. as what america was.. and that illusion was ripped away.. and it was ripped away quite consciously by people who fought to rip that illusion away.. and **now we’re still dealing with.. as you said.. when you take the facade away.. there’s the genocide and the slavery.. that enables us to have a society which ***everyone can have personal computers.. we’re living w these very painful contradictions that have not yet been worked out.. but before this all exploded.. it was just unconscious.. it was not acknowledged..
*agree.. but still a long way from freedom from that thinking
***not that.. not everyone
53 min – a: so in that sense what we’re really talking about .. not really lsd.. but social movements of the 60s.. that called into question the way things had been done.. much more focus on govt and military than capitalism.. and now i think we’re looking at a new phase in social revolution that is coming out of the same tech.. connected devices.. and that is i think much more about.. capitalism.. and i think we’re right in the middle of having that facade ripped off and we’re realizing.. oh.. all these people i thought were people on fb aren’t real.. and that illusion of these people i was talking to .. was enabled by a capitalist structure that was selling ads to a russian org that was structured like a company.. who’s entire goal was to subvert democracy..
58 min – a: on .. our consciousness showing up and us not recognizing it .. so we enslave it..
how is that diff from now..?
1:00 – h: i think a personal learning asst would be a great idea.. but i’ve also.. thru the last 10 yrs of projection of hopes about ed.. onto the entrance of tech to ed.. until we really deal w learner agency and enable them to learn.. rather than passively absorb what is fed to them.. then the tech issue.. is moot..
yeah howard.. begs a mech that simply listens to daily curiosity from 7 bn people.. and facil that
1:01 – h: to me.. what’s important about the use of social media in ed.. is that it enables this kind of *discourse and collective action.. to learn.. among the **students.. who ***previously had been isolated competitors in the classroom.. why are we all getting together in the same physical ****space anymore.. you can see my lecture on youtube.. being together as a group ought to take advantage of our ability to learn socially.. but schooling.. is all about stripping that away
**let’s label none of us that way or all of us that way.. i’d rather we focus on label ing curiosities..
***i would say they very much still are.. ie: if lucky enough to get out of classroom.. because of ongoing norms/constraints of rest of people in society.. still isolated from.. diff ages.. people who are awake.. resources.. freedom to change mind/tribe everyday.. et al
1:02 – q: a lot of problems today have to do w blind faith.. we tend to believe things very deeply .. is there a possibility that we could find a cure for blind faith.. could ai play a role in nudging us along to develop our critical thinking skills..
1:03 – a: so like place our faith in ai.. i think probably not.. i actually don’t think humans have as much a problem w blind faith as you might think.. i think humans are trusting and i think that we do fall for tricks.. but.. i think that what we can look forward to.. as we become more familiar w the tools of social media.. we’ll become more savvy sm users.. and we won’t have this problem like we’re having now.. we trust our friends.. and that’s a good thing.. but some of aren’t used to these that we think are friends are actually robots.. or a corp that wants to sell you something
1:04 – h: i think there’s a big social collision around critical thinking.. i encountered it when my daughter was in middle school and that was the same time that search engines started being used.. and so i had to sit with her and tell her.. if you’re going to do a paper.. go to library.. and librarian.. author.. publisher.. teacher.. were all gatekeepers of that text.. and now you can question and get a million answers and it’s *up to you to determine which of those are correct or not.. that got me thinking about critical thinking.. it was something that was attempted in 50s and 60s around media/tv.. it was quickly id’d as a communist plot.. and the problem is.. if your offspring.. students.. are to succeed and the commons is to become better.. they have to become better at thinking critically and questioning authority.. and many if not most parents/teachers.. are not really equipped to have their offspring/students questioning their authority.. i don’t really see that seeping into the ed system.. and i don’t really see it spreading online.. and what i fear is that there’s an arms race between our ability to discern bots/fake-info.. and the purveyors of that.. we’ve got a lot of things to do.. and they’ve got one thing to do.. they’ve got a lot more resources.. they being.. the people who’ve got a lot of power/money .. and can use the **tools of attention to maintain their position.. you know when barlow wrote that.. states were pretty much clueless.. ***that is not the case.. and has not been the case for a while.. and corps and entrepreneurs are not clueless.. they know that using tools available to them they can manipulate our attention and gain political power and make money.. and on our side.. we’ve got.. learning how to tell the difference..
and.. *we’re not assuming text in library is true.. right..?
**perhaps biggest.. most invasive tools.. institutions.. ie: uni
***i believe we’re in a diff kind of clueless.. ie: black science of people/whales.. and focus ing on distractions.. ie: trump over syria
1:07 – d: partly.. critical thinking and breaking blind faith comes thru art.. entertainment means to hold in.. real art.. grey areas.. are going to raise more questions than it answers..
questions are the path to all.. the stuff of life.. the things that bind us to one another..
so why not re do our days.. with that focus..
Alnoor Ladha (@alnoorladha) tweeted at 3:37 PM on Wed, Mar 21, 2018:
Here’s a podcast I did with @Rushkoff from @TeamHuman on Local Economics, Decentralization of Power, and More https://t.co/iRevJYLAN3 via @postcarbon
The Rules’ Alnoor Ladha on Local Economics, Decentralization of Power, and More
12 min – a: the impulse is to figure out what the post capitalist blueprint is.. we’re extrapolating the old model.. in a globalized world.. not going to look like that..
13 min – a: ie: zaptistas as inspiration.. million.. own currency.. et al.. people are realizing climate change is going to force us to live in small autonomous communities.. so how to build those.. based on gift/environ.. solutions will be highly contextual
14 min – a: people who argue urban solution is only one.. they argue it’s only way to have this many people.. daniel quinn – beyond civilization – instead of going into forest (like 99% of history) we create surplus which begs policy/hierarchy et al
16 min – a: he also says we think population increased.. he says no… created surplus which created population growth.. we don’ t need this many on planet.. do that by controlling food supply.. by strong local farming
19 min – a: zaptistas have shown can have 1 mn.. it’s anarchism (not anarchy) – about self creativity.. that humans know best way to live.. i don’t believe in no state.. role of govt is to localize power.. we don’t have to say anarchist.. we can say localist
22 min – a: i believe in resistance and renewal simultaneously.. have to remove while providing new.. force govt to build that infra.. as mainstream catch up w those of us on edge.. then.. how to be more useful and expand even more.. be even more radical..
has to be all of us..let’s design for that.. ie: short\bit
24 min – a: if we do our work.. massive shift in power over next 50 yrs.. we will start building infr w/in city states.. and push edge on alt communities out there..
why 50 yrs..?
25 min – d: what are we to do..? find the others..?
26 min – a: revolution not just going to be political.. but spiritual.. so the question .. what is enough.. takes on diff contours..
27 min – a: this whole idea of sacred activism that charles eisenstein talks about is semi interesting..
d: it’s also semi worrying
a: yeah .. it can be.. so if the people who believe this have the privilege.. they might be more compassionate/kinder.. but not that useful for a revolution
28 min – a: then look at the left.. wanted approval of an overlord.. in reaction to state religion that was psychotic.. so.. material world needs to be answer to everything we do..
29 min – a: even if all for loss.. which i don’t believe.. for me there’s a spiritual overlay.. a karma.. this is my choice to play this role.. and part of that is asking.. am i doing enough.. a pre req for revolution.. but not revolution itself..
30 min – d: seems selfish.. get out of the synagogue..
a: work should never exceed your practice..
31 min – a: i went thru a deep self reflection .. how could anyone who believes in non violence.. who believes.. the love of humanity will save us.. physically want to hurt somebody.. i realized what the political work does is it makes you confront the shadow.. and you need to confront the shadow.. the new age folks want to amputate the shadow.. just focus on bliss.. saying .. politics creates duality.. and i say.. no.. ignoring politics creates duality
32 min – d: yeah.. i watched trump the human being.. i tried to listen to trump like listening to leonard cohen.. and i understand what he wants as a human.. i think that’s a more useful place to be.. than blanket rejection
i know you ness
a: this is why for me the mystical and the anarchist impulse are the same.. they’re about disintermediation from power, direct experience, conscious evolution, and empathy.. when i realized there’s a 1% er in all of us.. there’s a trump in all of us.. so i need to do that innerwork.. and remove that from my body.. then at the community level.. then i need to change the superstructure/rules.. and the revolution is all 3 of those simultaneously..
35 min – a: we have to shift at all 3 levels (individual, community, superstructure) simultaneously.. t
a: this is the role i see in psychedelics/plant-meds in this revolution.. upgrade human consciousness to gaia 3.0.. the plants make that inner work much easier..
38 min – a: neither pre destined nor 100 % agency.. there’s a meeting of the universe halfway that comes from intention, entanglement and context.. set our intention.. and influence atoms to move.. then our observation changes the multi verse of possibility.. infinite zero points over and over
39 min – a: i don’t think humans are the pinnacle.. i believe we’re the newest and we play a role as stewards.. most insane.. is thinking we are the center.. humans will play a role.. we know we’re hard wired to preserve life
42 min – d: it’s the ground/infra that has to be fixed.. not the humans
a: for 99% of our history.. h/g.. we’re actually altruistic.. cooperative.. egalitarian.. and the neolib discourse.. is that we’ve fallen from grace .. flawed/greedy.. and have to fix ourselves.. and these are the people we’re allowing to lead us.. that intentionality is quantum..
44 min – a: we’re going to create new experiments that reflect those new values (altruistic.. cooperative.. egalitarian) and when we do will make their system obsolete.. even the 1% ers aren’t happy.. that is the hope for the revolution.. that they themselves know it
douglas rushkoff (@rushkoff) tweeted at 5:05 AM – 11 Jul 2018 :
New @TeamHumanShow with Palak Shah on the hidden domestic workforce in America: https://t.co/R314lS5bUs (http://twitter.com/rushkoff/status/1017001980772929537?s=17)
15 min – what kind of work is it to take care of others.. the way we view it.. so .. structural exclusions from the law.. and notions.. that this isn’t real work
16 min – this work should be respected..
17 min – leap frog basic to get to what’s fair.. how do we create the right conditions and ecosystem for that to emerge..t
23 min – vast majority of domestic workers are on their own
24 min – key trend.. sv discovered underground markets of domestic work.. and now ripe for ‘disruption’.. could be + or –
25 min – challenges of org ing these folks.. t
26 min – how to harness this power
32 min – fasted growing occupation.. child care & elderly care.. the question is .. how are we transforming these jobs into good jobs..t
35 min – douglas: on it just becoming job swapping (musical chairs) if improve working conditions for caring labor..t
36 min – what is the design for living.. is it an iteration of what we have now.. or something completely different.. t
38 min – on tech being just a tool.. often we just take ineq online..
47 min – fair care lab..
48 min – doug: i’ve been reading book called.. the domestication of humans.. that was beginning of patriarchy/abuse/et-al.. it’s like the primal element of this is not being engaged with.. the imbalance is so arbitrary/unjust.. we have to acknowledge the faults of domesticity itself in order to be involved in honest work..t
agri surplus ness
52 min – caring work.. gets at essence of what it is to be human.. if we’re not loving/caring.. what is this all for.. ? this is what we need to live our full lives.. t
so.. let’s open up to and facil that.. ie: maté basic needs
55 min – our system is structured in such a way that sometimes it is a math problem..
56 min – we should think about care as infra.. has to be all of us.. wrapped up in a system around care.. care as infra.. t
57 min – douglas.. consider it (care) the very structure..
1:00 – we’re all one.. the separation we feel is false.. that exposure caught up w me when i started to see contradictions in the world.. t
rupert sheldrake (rest of notes on rupert’s page)
douglas rushkoff (@rushkoff) tweeted at 7:21 PM on Thu, Jul 26, 2018:
It’s all resonance: The human body is a receiver, just tuning in non-local consciousness. Lifelong hero alt.biologist Rupert Sheldrake and his overtone-chanting spouse Jill Purce, on @teamhumanshow recorded live in London. https://t.co/5FVPPnNGBj
39 min – d: we’re learning that we’re in a collective reality and none of us is alone..t
1:08 – q: what enhancements would you choose
1:12 – d: i would like all those things and.. to experience whole human organism at once.. most of time i feel like an individuated human.. t
molly and @djrupture on team human
douglas rushkoff (@rushkoff) tweeted at 6:49 AM on Wed, Aug 29, 2018:
“What is an individual voice nowadays when we are amplified and scattered digitally? We are obliterated. We too are products being traded.” @djrupture appearing with @mollycrabapple on the 100th episode of @teamhumanshow
molly starts at 12 min
12 min – play video of money bail and kalief
14 min – d: the retrieval of hand painting
15 min – m: using my sketch book like a camera for a photojournalist.. and not as threatening to others (as a camera).. so get to go lots of places.. it’s like a lock pick
16 min – m: for a while – ‘photography is real .. art is slow’.. but art has been coming back
18 min – m: when photography is so utterly ubiquitous.. drawing is still something rare
d: almost like you’re teaching us how to see .. how to look
19 min – m: when you draw something you have to look/stare at it.. your human eye has to look.. that’s how you translate something.. from 3d to flat sheet of paper.. that holds for other people too.. to look carefully
20 min – m: photojournalists are most likely to get shot in head..
21 min – d: you’re interrupting a news process that has become ubiquitous
m: i know why i draw.. it’s my thing.. it’s probably like huffing glue.. but why is it important to draw.. am i doing a bad version of something tech can do better.. and then i came to conclusion.. no.. there was an interruption/value that a human .. was reproducing their own reality
22 min – m: (fidelity of situation) a balance between constraints of situation.. ie: guatanamo bay.. photographers couldn’t capture.. failed form of censorship.. but while working there.. hauled around by .. and ie: fast.. and faces censored.. when i draw in my studio it’s a diff thing.. ie: gaza
25 min – m: evil looking rebar.. and w hand tools straightening it.. i wanted to get that: these people so defiant that they’re reshaping the rebar
26 min – m: back in the day.. naked model and dancer.. got to be the coolest people.. i wanted something that paid tribute to my friends.. ie: highering underground performers to model how they want to be (seen).. not too often your pet project keeps going 12 yrs later
28 min – m: on young people finding space/community of people
29 min – m: got the clearance at guantanamo because artists are underestimated
30 min – m: g bay is one of most evil/famous institutions .. inability to be good comes up against proclivity to be nice.. they force feed people who are locked up forever.. but let them choose the flavor
32 min – m: (on going to g bay w potential of getting ptsd or whatever) i got my training in the sex industry.. i was never a delicate flower.. perhaps a better training than getting a masters in creative writing..
35 min – m: i remember when i first saw stuff from raqqa.. everything had been via isis propaganda.. and he was intent on seeing stuff you weren’t supposed to see ie: kids digging thru trash, or bread lines, or messed up wounded fighter, or isis traffic stop checking out chics.. we wanted to do images that were against the cliches of wars.. and i remember seeing the first one and thinking.. this is what i’m not supposed to see.. this is seeing across borders..
36 min – d: seeing you as sketch artist (who begin the justice) for – not the individual – but for the oppression.. for the mass
m: i don’t know what kind of justice art can do.. i’ve hard arguments about this.. at first i was very cynical about it ie: art is not to be taken in front of international criminal court.. but then someone reminded me (this turkish writer).. she said.. you’re right.. not taken in front of internat court.. but what artists/poets/writers/satirists really have.. they have the ability to fashion how the future perceives the past.. they have the ability to shape what the memory of what someone will be..
37 min – m: that’s why poets were feared in various cultures.. because a poet.. doesn’t have an army.. he can’t kill you usually.. he can’t hurt you like that.. but you know what a poet can do.. a poet can say something about you that is so damn catchy that 50 or 1000 yrs after your death people won’t remember anything about you except what a fu you were.. that is what a poet can do
m: the problem is we have all realized that reality is a collective hallucination.. not just our friends/buddies.. everyone.. it turns out that actually.. maybe the lack of agreement on reality wasn’t a good thing all along and maybe we fashion nightmares when we do that
38 min – m: (on witnessing/channeling these things .. do you get into overload) yeah i do .. of course..
d: do you sit in the dark and weep.. or have tea and cookies.. what do you do to.. there’s residue for sure
m: i just gotta say though.. i do this voluntarily .. right.. i think the people everyone should worry about are the people it’s just their lives and they’re just stuck there because they have shitty passports.. or because their country has been destroyed.. not someone who quite voluntarily goes in and does a little work for a few days/weeks..t
39 min – m: but i think that’s what’s happening.. it used to be that you were only exposed to a certain amount of the world’s suffering.. whereas now.. it’s possible .. if you wanted to.. to be exposed to all the world’s suffering.. all of it.. all at once.. not only more than you can do anything about.. that’s a given.. but more than you can even feel anything .. this is leading to a lot of interesting and troubling re alignments.. 1\ a lot of people have just decided i can’t feel bad about all of this.. so .. i don’t care.. not gonna feel 2\ bizarre what about ism and shaming ie: 8 terrorist attacks you weren’t thinking about when you were looking at the terrorist attack in paris.. gets you to this classic buddhist stance.. that existence is suffering.. that is a fundamental restructuring of how we see the world that’s happening w sm and internet and 24 mn stories/second news
41 min – m: i don’t feel hopeful about the world.. but i feel hopeful about people.. individual people.. a profound respect for people
43 min – m: i always thought if i taught at an art school (that gets you 200 000 debt) i’d be complicit to enslaving people to this debt.. and i thought.. if i had something to teach.. i’d rather just hang out w someone..t
46 min – m: (on borders) this is what worries me.. a lot of people are going to have to move (climate change).. if world doesn’t figure out a way to get people human rights that is not dependent on a piece a paper according to where they were born.. the type of fascism that emerges out of all of those people having to inevitably move vs the current border regime.. is going to be a type of fascism that.. gives me chills.. the horrors unleashed from that.. so to me.. thinking of ways to org beyond the nation state.. it’s not just a cool idea.. it’s actually something we fundamentally have to deal with.. t
47 min – m: we’ve never had pure states.. we’ve never had places where one type of people lived.. that’s just a fiction.. fear isn’t even rooted in a real past
jace starts at 52 min
1:24 – j: i wouldn’t still be here.. if it wasn’t deeply interesting in the moment
1:25 – d: someone’s alive w me right now
j: yeah.. the shared temporality of radio is an alive magic too
molly & jace starts at 1:27
1:28 – m: asking jace about what he said about being anti nostalgia
1:29 – j: often .. a hierarchy thing.. disregards all the stranger effervescence of the present..
m: all the cities becoming more and more unlike the cities and more an more like each other
1:31 – m: the left has not talked about why beauty is important.. they’ve discounted that and let the right use this nostalgia for the beauty to advance that fascism
1:35 – m: it’s all about sterility.. the thing the neoliberal city is scared of at the core.. not the peripheral.. at the peripheral everything can rot.. garbage delivery, paving.. but at the core.. they don’t want a lack of control.. and they want everything to be monetized.. t
in instanbul.. whatever anybody else says about turkey.. the existence of this city where spoiled cats are not being abused.. (fed tourists steak for no labor).. it’s not like they’re neglected abused cats.. they’re free cats.. this would never be allow in an american city.. because it’s out of the control of money.. wild.. someone might sue
1:37 – d: because they’re only using one metric to measure the success of anything.. gdp.. end up out marketing each other.. such a difficult metric to live by
isn’t any metric.. difficult (inhumane).. for team human
1:38 – d: digital.. because it’s so quantized.. it marries itself so well to the values of neoliberalism in ways i don’t think anyone imagined.. we thought it was going to be the reverse.. but it’s ended up working so well in service to that.. that’s why both of your work.. by bringing the human hand back into it.. kind of forces a re evaluation of that
j: not just human hand.. but this interdisciplinary.. this sort of like
1:39 – m: on eclectism.. and working from so many diff cultures w/o stripping them of what they are.. that’s the problem w collectivism.. eventually ends up becoming a high end new age (?).. where all the religions of the world are reduced to love each other.. that all of what makes things themselves is taken out in this sort of flattening mish mash.. and i just want to say an appreciation of your music.. making things blend while keeping what they are..t
1:45 – m: architecture is a really weird art form.. because every other art form.. it doesn’t inflict itself on you.. if don’t like a book – close it.. don’t like a painting – don’t go into gallery.. but architecture you’re kind of forced to deal w it.. t
1:46 – m: like in ny and some other cities.. no one is building stuff except for the ultra rich.. any communities who are not millionaires have no place in the neolib city.. except those you can suck 5 months rent out of and then they have to go broke.. t
evicted et al
building is all for those w money.. ie: pr building own homes.. beautiful..colorful.. senses pleased by them.. made to human tastes.. if in states.. people would think poor people not worthy enough to live in them.. ie: why are you trying to be happy
1:49 – j: there’s this weird interaction of architecture and urbanism.. i’m interested in diff ways to visualize white collar crime.. because it’s so visual and it’s increasingly the vision of what the city is becoming.. what it looks like..t
1:50 – m: and the people who have to launder the profits from their white collar crime from somewhere in the world by buying lots of apts that they keep empty.. just to park their money in.. which is part of why we have a housing crisis.. we can’t afford to live there
douglas rushkoff (@rushkoff) tweeted at 5:50 AM – 12 Sep 2018 :
“just because you can speak doesn’t mean you deserve or have rights to an audience or have the right to silence other people with your speech.” @danahboyd on the new @TeamHumanShow https://t.co/XrNQwPuUSq (http://twitter.com/rushkoff/status/1039843603139452928?s=17)
49 min – on people not liking their data – then onto polling/voting.. we have techniques of seeing..
self-talk as data
we’re no longer part of a collective we’re part of networks..
d: i’m trying to refuse that collective spirit
50 min – we reduced to groups because easiest thing to model.. harder to understand how sit in graph.. part of what we need to reclaim is a way to understand world thru graphs w/o getting to tribalism
52 min – what things have to matter about physicality and what things about something else
there’s a mess underlying our current conversation because we’ve had a collision of group and graph in a really significant way thru network tech’s where all sorts of other things unravel.. a language based graph is so much more powerful than where you are physically located
part of the problem is those are just id to infinity.. they’re value oriented responses to things
us was never about everyone in agreement.. no longer the states ness.. so what does it mean to be united..
d: every question becomes existential now
56 min – and the question is if we can get thru that w/o violence.. and i don’t know the answer to that
58 min – talking about teaching
maybe this is my problem.. most everyone i think i’d like to jhave a convo with.. has teaching as their profession.. they can’t see that as non existent.. and then those are the ones that call you crazy/abstract/esoteric
nationality: human ness