indy johar

indy johar bw


co-founded hub westminster [heard about via Dougald] and oo:\ and dark matters lab.. and…


The future of capitalism | Meaning 2012

as architects we were deskilling/depurposing..

as we go from consumer to producer economy.. dis economies of scale…

i am responsible – regardless of whoever pays me – for the public good…


indy on boundaryless

indy on deep dive


find/follow Indy:

link twitter

link facebook


city ness

money ness


Indy Johar (@indy_johar) tweeted at 5:48 AM – 21 Sep 2016 :

A culture of informality/conversation commerce is veneer on even the most progressive orgs they all fall back old norms #DarkMatterProblems (

norms like… accounting/contracting…et al

The system challenges we face are not born of human limits/cultural lock-ins (most can be overcome) but our institutional infrastructure

Indy Johar (@indy_johar) tweeted at 5:54 AM – 21 Sep 2016 :

We haven’t reimagined governance, contracting, accounting, procurement for a complex emergent world (living in an illusion of certainty) (

reimagine accounting..contracting..?..
reimagine those things…or disengage from them…ie:a nother way that makes them irrelevant

if we really are seeking emergence…
won’t happen w all the measuring ness

Indy Johar (@indy_johar) tweeted at 6:01 AM – 21 Sep 2016 :

In this world corporates use asymmetric power to continue to live in an illusion of certainty forcing uncertainty to be carried by citizens (

interp/imag labor via David‘s rev in rev


from simone

Simone Cicero (@meedabyte) tweeted at 7:54 AM – 5 Dec 2016 :

Democracy cannot be reduced to the vote: functioning democracy reqs democratising capital, knowledge… @indy_johar (

1\ *Democracy sits on the stack of the military and the rule of law. These two conditions need to exist prior to any form of functioning democracy. They are put in service of democracy – but are also independent pillars of democracy formation. We must acknowledge we are not free of the war machine and the destructive power of war or structure of security. In fact many of our democracies are increasingly in a constant state of war focused on preserving and enhancing interests – we must reconcile this reality – our pretty “libertarian” dreams sit on the shoulders of the war machine – in all its forms from economic, military and cyber war. (Let’s not glorify this but we must acknowledge this reality in our politics)


2\ *Representative Democracy is just a form of societal decision making architecture, as much as the famed “market” is a model of societal decision making and “learned societies” (the professions) are another model of decisions making architecture — where the primacy of knowledge & practice holds power — in preference to price or collective agreement) – increasingly this historic triad has been disrupted by rise of scalable social networks and their power to influence societal decision making. Together theses societal decision making structures come together to build a complex and balanced interplay of decision making — fusing long term thinking, with distributed long tail thinking and supply demand matching logics.

*and that’s why.. #1..

if we insist on society decision making (ie: consensus).. and public consensus always oppresses someone(s).. then we need force (

no longer need to rep.. no more rep ping.. violence ing

we have the tech capabilities (io dance ness) to redefine decision making..


they were charged to *look after the public interest, not our interest, or just our communities interests — but the public interest

perhaps … the idea that anyone has to.. *look after public interest.. rather than trust (aka: 100%) us as one.. trust the dance.. is what’s keeping us from us..

we shouldn’t perpetuate efficiency of a mode/medium/means we no longer need.


Cassie Robinson. (@CassieRobinson) tweeted at 1:28 AM – 22 Jul 2017 :

If you’re trying to influence & design for long-term, systemic change then this provocation by @indy_johar is (

B. Startups to System Transition. Increasingly, and simultaneously we are recognizing that tinkering at the edges of our systems. won’t get us there — given the rising scale of the challenge. Shifting well-being in society, or addressing the rise of chronic diseases or incarceration rates, or the inclusive benefits of growth , or educational outcomes — cannot be addressed by minor interventions at the edge of the current model — but require whole scale system wide reform of an order we have not witnessed for nearly 50–70 years. We were once creating the NHS. and a modern public — university system but institutional renewal for society has not materialised out of the social innovation field so far. Yet this needs to be. a time of generational renewal — a time for reimagining our societal infrastructure and human development.

‘a time of generational renewal..’ (while reading postcapitalism)
that’s all the 50 yrs is.. not an econ pattern
econ has nothing to do w real us
in fact… mutating real us

C. The Rise of a complex multi-actor world. As we move to a complex, emergent and unknown world — we increasingly need a new institutional infrastructure which recognises the following: The challenge is not government but distributed governance.

The challenge is not about unlocking or shifting the statistical mean/or median of contribution but moral and ethical responsibility to unleash us all. The challenge is not the public sector but the distributed creation of public good. The challenge is not public or private but interdependence. The challenge is not just disruptive innovation of new products and services but the coordinated activity across our institutional infrastructure. *The challenge for financing is not about risk diversity across sectors and. portfolios but finding synergy within portfolios and places/systems. The challenge is not about getting one man on the moon but about getting. civilisation up in the stars.

great section – until.. financing is assumed..

in d:

Whilst there have been a few attempts of applying this thinking to social infrastructure — it has largely been naive with efforts focusing on the efficiency of resource allocation as opposed to the fundamentals of care.

let’s try this ie: hlb via 2 convos that io dance.. as the day..[aka: not part\ial.. for (blank)’s sake…]..  a nother way

not necessarily incrementalism but real societal moonshots to support new practices, systems, tools or products which can drive a mainstream revolution

indeed.. [aka: not part\ial.. for (blank)’s sake…]


Aleksi Neuvonen (@Leksis) tweeted at 2:22 AM – 26 Aug 2017 :

A great text by @indy_johar on post managerial, post industrial and post “jobs for bad robots” #nextera. #futures (

Most of our human economy has since the industrial & managerial revolution functioned to full fill and comply with roles & processes for predefined value and imagination.

The industrial economy made humans “labour”, designed, focused and instrumentalised in the fullfillment of corporate value creation and the imagination of the few.

work ness

This is a future not designed to instrumentalise and passively enslave humans and drive compliance – through debt and wage incentives but to use “Universal Basic Income” to unleash and liberate purpose, care, collaboration and the capacity to dream and disrupt the future.

i don’t think ubi is enough to free us.. i think we have to disengage from any measuring ness..

This is a future which requires us to reimagine “Management” from being a means of control to a means for emancipate, nurture grow care and capacity.

ie: a mech to facil chaos.. rather than to .. organize it..

This is a future we requires us to start by embracing the relatively infinite possibility of humans – as opposed to our limited capacity to make roles and manage process.

eudaimoniative surplusginorm small

This is a future which embraces a tomorrow, where humans are the source of economy not redundant to its function.


moonshots and mission capital

One of the real structural challenges we face is the systemic loss of our intentional capacity to imagine futures — real alternative futures — not just tinkering with the world we find ourselves locked in to.

totally agree

This is capital which needs not only a new public funding formula but also a new political imagineerium.

perhaps a new political imagineerium would render public funding irrelevant

How would we unlock & unleash the full capacity of every citizen individually and collectively?

as it could be

These are perhaps the real moonshots of our age, they are not beyond our imagination or even our scientific analysis, but to date, they have been beyond our belief/will to engineer.

indeed.. because we can’t seem to let go of money/measure.. enough


per dark matters site – 50 min talk from 2016


too often democracy defined by the note.. but democracy is much more than the vote

voting ness

the democracy i’m interested in is the power to create society.. not to consume

5 min – 1\ wiki house.. how to design a house that could be iterated/evolved by people.. could be played around w our sketchup.. like open sourced barn raising

how about city sketchup

the architecture is the architecture of the convo.. faciling convo..

let’s just focus on that.. ie: 2 convos.. and trust us.. to take care of everything else..

11 min – design cost

15 min – finding ways to not only measure but finance these oblique inventions..

.. because we can’t seem to let go of money/measure.. enough

17 min – as long as you engage whole families in space.. you don’t get that violence

in the city.. as the day..

20 min – india – more deaths via auto.. drs incentivized by cash they get.. at the end he built the app.. the complex challenges we’re dealing w don’t have single point interventions.. no single app/tech that solves this

unless perhaps it’s focused on a problem deep enough for 7 bn people to resonate w today.. as it could be

23 min – how do we write strategy.. how do we do change.. in a complex world

maybe we don’t write strategy.. we change by letting go..


25 min – maybe our *theory of change has to be different.. ie: **diff type of contracting.. financing systems .. not products..

*indeed.. **not different enough

26 min – impact birmingham.. focused on city not on hub.. crowdfunded it.. become accountable


28 min – if you start to map the journey.. the journey of the building is not the plan.. it’s the social organization..  and the problem is.. all our mapping techs are still focused on the plan.. we don’t know how to communicate this stuff properly..

indeed.. 2 convos

how do you get 1000 people involved in the issue.. unless you can pkg the politics.. you can’t drive the change..

perhaps we listen to the change.. and facil that.. rather than trying to gather people around our assumed campfire

28 min – but that’s not enough.. what does legitimacy look like in this sort of model.. how do we build accountability

perhaps.. we can go beyond deeming legitimacy.. and just assume good.. (and assume that we need all of us).. because otherwise.. ie: who decides.. each day.. what’s legit..?

29 min – and then how do we finance this

short bp.. because money less ness matters huge

30 min – how do you contract movements.. i don’t know..

why contract movements..?

31 min – don’t worry about group outcome.. worry about growing group intelligence.. that’s your real long term metric

wow.. i’d rather it be eudaimoniative surplus

what you worry about is every actor becoming smart as a collab ly.. and that talks about building a diff type of environ

so in this future were we move from the i to the we

32 min – ie: redesigned school.. hospital..

we also learned this public private is archaic

systemic ness

33 min – how do you procure this future.. when you can’t predict tomorrow

34 min – maybe best way to drive ed isn’t to change school but to actually get a librarian who loves teaching kids to read.. we know that has massive effects

whoa.. agree w libraries.. but not with a need to teach how to read.. and that’s huge to what you’re seeking..

35 min – to do this you have to invest in building shared language.. and that takes time

not if we trust in idio-jargon.. via a mech to facil that chaos..

36 min – how do you start to build a shared language.. how do you start to sense together

1 yr to be 5.. because ie: not yet scrambled ness.. et al

38 min – diff means of org ing.. diff means of having that convo..

39 min – in a way .. what we’re all designing.. is architecture of large convos..

let’s go ginorm/small.. ie: 2 convos

40 min – unless we actually find a means of change to deal with the complexity we’re in.. i think we’re stuck..

so.. let’s let go.. and try something different..

41 min – if we want drive change.. we’re going to have to build a new org model.. and that requires us to build an architecture of large convos..

42 min – q&a

42 min – intuitively everyone gets this.. but we have a solutional design that doesn’t get this.. ie: audit mechc; contracting structures; way we build brands; marketing; asset and ownership … et al.. don’t get this..  the challenge is that leaders don’t get this

perhaps.. we need to disengage from all this

44 min – it was about every actor becoming conscious of their interdependency.. that was the first leverage of change.. that capacity is the real fundamental.. we think of each other as inferior and not able to get this.. every human being is a phenomenally powerful.. not a capability problem.. a respect problem..

as it could be..  interconnectedness

has to be all of us


article from dec 2017

“the instrumentalisation of being human, and the conversion of being human into a unit of labour and consumption” by @indy_johar

Original Tweet:

The inquality we see around us — is an inequality of autonomy, an inquality of purpose fullness, inequality of agency. This is an inquality where intrinsic organisation is a privilege of the few and the extrinsic organisation applied to the many.

equity: everyone getting a go everyday

Innovating in a complex, emergent world needs us to adopt a new model of organizing.

This is an idea which requires to reimagine and break free words like Freedom – and rehabilitate them, making them fit for the 21st century.

we need a full stack transformation embracing a linked reimaging of our social-economic-technological & spatial infrastructure to unleash this Human(e) Revolution..t

as it could be

2 convos as infra


Indy Johar (@indy_johar) tweeted at 5:28 AM on Sun, Jun 03, 2018:
“A Freedom Economy…”

3 min read from dec 2017

Going from extrinsically motivated societies to intrinsically organised – decentralised, distributed democracies.

Perhaps the challenge has never been capitalism or communism but something more fundamental – the very nature of the organisation of society.

The inquality we see around us — is an inequality of autonomy, an inquality of purpose fullness, inequality of agency. This is an inquality where intrinsic organisation is a privilege of the few and the extrinsic organisation applied to the many.

equity – everyone getting a go everyday

Innovating in a complex, emergent world needs us to adopt a new model of organizing

as it could be

org: 2 convos as infra


indy on brexit

Indy Johar (@indy_johar) tweeted at 5:48 AM – 26 Dec 2018 :
Brexit will demand a new global cultural strategy for the UK – starting with a cultural peace & reconciliation process – recognising & reorganising the @britishmuseum as a global shared asset (

Indy Johar (@indy_johar) tweeted at 5:52 AM – 26 Dec 2018 :
Brexit will demand the rebooting of the UKs human development infrastructure- Universities to Schools – away from teaching towards research & learning etc (

ie: cure ios city.. w 2 convers as infra

Indy Johar (@indy_johar) tweeted at 6:01 AM – 26 Dec 2018 :
Brexit requires a fundamental reboot of our institutional & economy .. the fundamental challenge is we do not have the leadership or time to deliver it.. (

begs a means to leapsync matters


Indy Johar (@indy_johar) tweeted at 3:53 AM – 11 Jan 2019 :
This is the some of the best #systemchange work, thinking and practices @DarkMatter_Labs have had the honour to be part of with @ImpactHubBrum – check out this thread .. (

4 min ideo

indy: this is a systems challenge not individual

begs everyone in sync

ie: cure ios city


w kate

Indy Johar (@indy_johar) tweeted at 5:59 AM – 4 Mar 2019 :
A brilliant and thoughtful discussion with the amazing @KateRaworth – thank you to the @royalacademy to hosting this – was seriously great! (

45 min – i: the revolution we are facing is a revolution of bureaucracy..t

graeber f&b same law

46 min – i: what would a building look like if it was there to optimize you.. is housing about housing or is it a vision of well being

49 min – i: when you start to change the frames of accounting.. open up new ways of the world.. we often design to cost of building

i: what does design look like when you move from object to outcome (ie: prisons that are places for healing)

let’s go beyond that.. no prisons.. just need to be better at listening ie: tech as it could be..

in the city.. as the day..

same w copy/property rights et al.. we have the means to make all those things irrelevant rather than just better/kinder.. et al

53 min – i: we’ve been imagining the world thru property rights.. how do we unbundle that

h & n property law

57 min – i: in a world where we have massive interdependency.. what does freedom mean.. justice/privacy/.. we have to re imagine these core foundations..t


meadows undisturbed ecosystem

let’s do this firstfree art-ists.

59 min – i: have we found a way to unleash/support the full capacity of every human?..t

the energy of 7bn alive people via cure ios city

1:02 – k: what it is to be human is to start off w a relationship..t

so let’s just focus on that.. via 2 convers as infra

1:03 – k: i’ll collab w you as long as you collab w me..t

today we don’t have to go there.. we can start w 7b+ daily curiosities  .. and facil gatherings from that data

1:06 – i: thing first thing is civil rights.. how do you unleash everyone.. w pay? i think that’s a low grade

going at it from rights is low grade as well.. today we can go deeper.. let’s facil the essential needs of a human being

1:09 – i: the deep failure is a failure in accounting

deeper indy.. stop counting

1:10 – k: so yes.. accounting.. and this is the economists great project.. how do we count.. i agree.. the question is .. what is metric of this accounting

dang.. let’s ask.. why count/measure? because that always comes back to who gets to decide what counts.. which comes back to oppression/exclusion et al

1:12 – k: a doughnut measures human well being.. ie: how much ed..

that’s not human..stop measure ing

1:15 – i: how do you reframe what we think is ours.. collectively.. how to start that convo

all 3 of you keep going back to re imagining value..

thinking of this:

instrumental and intrinsic value (rabbit holed to while thinking on our addiction to condition\ality

The word “value” is both a verb and a noun, each with multiple meanings. But its root meaning always involves social judgments of qualities such as goodness, worth, truth, justice, beauty. The word names either the rational criterion applied when judging, or results of judging, the presence of such qualities

graeber values lawjust as commodities have econ ‘value’ because they can be compared precisely w other commodities, ‘values’ are valuable because they cannot be compared w anything

so too.. not judged then.. right?.. not counted.. accounted for.. rather unconditional

1:21 – k: (answering what skills needed) – understanding complex systems – dana meadows.. financial is natural because run by humans..?  ie: broken window..

? – let’s take meadow’s undisturbed ecosystem at literal value..  which means we’d be living in trust rather than responding/analyzing systems/instittions we already have

1:24 – i: i’d say .. how we re imagine the institutional landscapes we’ve built around us.. look for open unbounded systems.. there are deep questions.. like .. what is freedom/privacy/agency/dependency/justice

1:29 – i: i think the future has been limited to a little more/less than now.. the deep crisis is the ability to imagine..t

and then to hear every voice/imagining.. ie: self-talk as data

(audience comment) – i see a lot of this as old.. though we keep saying new new new.. it’s intuitive.. back to common sense.. not intellectual/exclusive

1:36 – i: yes.. this is old.. but may be able to scale at a global level.. simultaneously global and local

eagle condor time via 2 convers as infra


Indy Johar (@indy_johar) tweeted at 4:46 AM – 23 Jun 2019 :

We need to optimise our cities to ensure the sustainability of our ecological foundations for human & biological thriving.. (

ie: cure ios city

Reimagining density as the act of optimial intensification of all interactions, systems, ecological loops & synthetic ecological loop – is essential for a thriving (microbiome to human) urbanity.


Indy Johar (@indy_johar) tweeted at 3:34 AM on Mon, Jun 24, 2019:
Super delighted to share a summary of a year long piece of work on the need and pathways to build the capacity for governance innovation at the city scale..

The immediate crises of ecological collapse and social inequality are difficult — if not impossible — to approach without addressing the deeper fractures in our public imagination and the social legitimacy of our institutions.

To move forward, we must explore wholly new modes of governance; new paths to legitimacy — because public imagination and legitimacy are foundational tools for building healthy futures for people and planet.

from 32 page pdf here – legitimacities –


p 25

ENSURING LEGITIMATE GOVERNANCE THROUGH CITIZEN ASSEMBLIES At a time when the legitimacy of traditional public governance processes is challenged, it is essential to ensure a legitimate governance model for each experiment that goes through a regulatory sandbox. One way of doing so is through citizen assemblies, which aim to reinstall trust in the political process by taking direct ownership of deliberation as the basis for complex decision-making. Rather than reducing the democratic process to a binary decision on a ballot sheet (yes or no, leave or stay), some citizen assemblies push the democratic process further by giving a representative group of people more power to directly inform decision-making.

we can do better than this today.. ie: decision making (waggle dancing et al) as irrelevant.. via curiosity

p 30

An initial aim is to build partnerships that work with five cities across Canada to:

1\ Establish civic regulatory experimentation sandboxes, governed by civic assemblies, and evaluated in multi-endpoint social and ecological outcomes.

we have to let go of assembly ness to decide things first (rather start with 7b daily curiosities).. and of evaluating outcomes (rather trust us in an undisturbed ecosystem)

2\ Support the development of critical digital infrastructure for the commons (civic data pools, digital public registries, blind data trusts, hard infrastructure, etc.) at a city and community scale

let’s try 2 convers as infra

3\ Build a federated fund of $100 million for civic regulatory innovation sandboxes, civic accelerators and critical digital infrastructure.


Indy Johar (@indy_johar) tweeted at 2:41 PM on Sat, Jul 27, 2019:
What does governance look like when it is less about control & limitation of our imagined worst selves but a structured framework to enhance and ennoble us to be our best selves? I.e radical transparency; freedoms of speech; reductions of information asymmetries etc

cure ios city

with 2 convers as infra


via jon fb share:

This is more or less what I have been yapping about on an ongoing basis for the past 20 years.

<< Indy: I think we have structural frames that have been perceived to become natural, which are not natural. They exist as a result of the last 400 years of thinking and have become deeply buried into our society. >>


Tomas: So dark matter refers to the underlying structures, rules, regulations and assumptions that underpin our world view – things that we usually take for granted and don’t think about. That’s why you call them dark, because they are not immediately visible?

Indy: Exactly, we realised that there was a whole world of things that seem normal and natural – like the idea of property rights – but are actually not natural at all..t

property et al

This means looking right to the core, at the kinds of language we use to create contracts that move away from ideas of control and ownership.

why contracts..? if seeking core..?

Indy: I think we have structural frames that have been perceived to become natural, which are not natural. They exist as a result of the last 400 years of thinking and have become deeply buried into our society. They are like pieces of code that are the source materials for the world around us.

whales in sea world

We’ve created a world where our environments have been designed to drive consumption, or exacerbate bad behaviours in ourselves. We’ve created environments which are massively light and noise polluting and therefore fundamentally detrimental to our human development. Architects often get lost in creating the image, not the conditions for human development. t

conditions that allow us to listen deeper than rna .. than dna.. making the genotype/phenotype gap et al.. irrelevant

spaces that focus on ie: curiosity over decision making

Indy: I have always found it fascinating how most contracts are focused on limiting harm. Actually the infrastructure for unleashing human capacity is very limited. We have a massive cognitive bias to loss aversion, and we’ve constructed society along the lines of loss aversion and control, as opposed to ennobling and unleashing.



“Don’t recruit for what people know / Recruit for what people want to self learn, how deep and fast they learn &amp; how deep and fast the team around them learns..” this changes so many things ..

Original Tweet:

ie: cure ios city

no need to recruit just listen

@meedabyte: Leadership, enterprising, it also challenges the very idea of *recruiting* into something more skin-in-the-gamey

curiosity itch-in-the-soul/skin


Indy Johar (@indy_johar) tweeted at 5:20 AM on Sat, Jul 04, 2020:
Our language & it conceptual frame has become corrupted & incoherent – markets no longer describe the reality of our mechanisms of allocation; persistant sovereignty is an illusion in a independent world; control is a fallacy in a complex machined reality; freedom is chimera..

let’s try idio-jargon as a means to undo our hierarchical listening


Going to say it, its so hard to both push ahead; be systemically inclusive; multi perspectival. I keep falling down here, need to be much better! But also the inequalities, privileges &amp; injustices of our societies are systemically locking us out from transitioning from demise.
Original Tweet:

takes a lot of work ness.. killing us.. let go

ie: cure ios city


@meedabyte I am paraphrasing a tweet you recently shared – I hope accurately.
Original Tweet:

links to post by on dark matters nov 2020 (18 min read)- #beyond the rules:

How we organise has always been interwoven with how we perceive ourselves. Our prevalent models of organisation are heavily designed with a bias to self-reinforcing ideas of humans as separate and self-interested individuals and our systems designed with an emphasis to stratify and control. When we apply these principles to the purpose of creating ‘public good’ it leads to ‘good’ that is entangled with deep harm.

thurman interconnectedness lawwhen you understand interconnectedness it makes you more afraid of hating than of dying

what we need is for our org/infra to be a means to undo our hierarchical listening to self/others/nature.. so that we grok legit perceptions of selves.. (aka: not whales.. and not in sea world)


Are public innovation institutions structured, designed and organized for the scale of the transition we face? If you were designing one – what would be its core feature?
Original Tweet:

only way to get to all the scalesorg around legit needs