indy on deep dive

60 min podcast – jun 2020 – 28: Dark Matter, Social Contracts and the Boring Revolution: A Conversation with Indy Johar and @FarFlungPhil

In the latest episode of The Deep Dive I talk to @indy_johar co-founder @DarkMatter_Labs and we explore how we can re-imagine our social contracts and think about value. Take a listen here ->
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5 min – behind things you see.. there’s a lot of dark matter.. ie: for architecture.. a house.. dark matter is the warranty.. and property value.. et al


6 min – social goods leak huge amounts of social value that is privatized.. most of things we’re making have these invisible problems.. ie: everyone talks about how great a school is..but reality.. adds maybe 70-100 000 dollars to cost of house.. if want to re imagine how to make civic society.. have to re imagine the contract between social value and social institutions and mechs around it..

7 min – underlying infra .. how we see the world.. based on single point transactions.. one to one contracts..

8 min – what we’re moving into is a world of interdependence.. where value is not so linear.. social value spills over.. real magic.. now have contracting (machine) infra.. to be able to re imagine how we re construct that value.. and when you can do that.. you start to change what i would say is the business model of the future

oi.. contracts et al.. red flags

historically.. our econ was about private contracting.. cost for more than 1to1 was too much.. now able to do many to many at any level.. that means.. moving private econ to civic econ

9 min – it’s the boring stuff.. but until you redesign them.. won’t get to the value we (want)

10 min – (p: do you have to have a re education on how to assess value) .. totally.. nail on head.. 1\ we think of value thru tangible things.. because can trade.. but 2\ how valuable is your personal network.. is it tradable/transferable.. no..  does cost.. yes.. worth huge value.. yes.. what we underprice are intangibles in our system.. this is an accountancy problem..  it’s about understanding how we account for value..

rather than an accountancy problem.. thinking we have to be accounting is the problem.. huge red flag

graeber values law.. et al

11 min – this is a real structural issue.. we are increasingly moving into an econ of interdependency and intangibles.. and our accountancy system is still focused on discrete and particular definable value/objects.. so we’re moving from one paradigm to another.. yet our underlying value.. people talk about values.. our mech structuring our values as accounting is actually outdated.. built on a siloed world for siloed/discrete models of thinking

not just outdated.. cancerous .. impossible (graeber values law)

12 min – we don’t have infra to imagine an econ where interdependence and intangible value is actually invested in..

13 min – how much is the health/ed of a nation worth.. because we don’t price these.. we don’t invest in them.. there’s a real structural issue of how we balance/account.. t.. and unless we make those rules reflective of the world we live in we’ve got a fundamental discrepancy

deeper issue/problem is that we think we have to balance/account

not to mention assuming Ed is a sign of worth/good-health

p: it’s the financialization of everything we do in our lives

16 min – hustle culture is if you make people precarious.. in debt..  you optimize the hustle.. force people to hustle.. optimizes for short term..  society constantly focusing on short term value

17 min – if we want deep innovation.. have to build diff types on cities.. which aren’t focusing on us to hustle.. but actually give us space to think and be.. t

ie: cure ios city

18 min – we’re privileging asset development in hands of a few..

imagine if we just focused on listening & connecting – in order to undo our hierarchical listening

ie: 2 convers as infra

in a precarious society.. fair is your mech of organizing

19 min – agility designs for hustle.. but doesn’t do the deep innovation which requires trust.. that fragility is not coming home

20 min – p: social contract.. how do develop one that moves away from mythologies of violence..t

yeah .. i think the contract ness itself is part of the structural violence

22 min – ownership is a thesis of enslavement.. the proprietary nature of ownership is deeply violent.. t

as are contracts.. they are about ownership/control.. et al

23 min – our relationship w nature/things/future/people.. are of ownership.. these fundamental things.. architectures of control.. to the optimization of the single person.. and i think that is the paradigm we need to break.. and we’re at the cusp of breaking.. because if we don’t break these generator functions.. they are generating risks: ineq; destruction of environ; ..  that we’re not able to deal with

agree.. but we have to let go of all control.. ie: contracts et al

25 min – unless we restructure.. and deal with what it means to be human.. t

need to get to our essence.. ie: maté basic needs.. and then org around that (something already in each of us.. so no ed needed.. everyone can have a go right from the get go)

the thesis of decolonization has to be in (all of this).. this is a paradigm problem

literacy and numeracy both elements of colonialism/control/enclosure.. we need to calculate differently and stop measuring things

in west thesis has been around individualism.. in asia.. around society.. both are problematic.. both around an object.. they aren’t talking about our interdependence.. a diff state of organizing.. that’s the paradigm issue we’re facing

27 min – deep unwinding.. to allow us to be conscious of the science.. see ourselves as more than nouns/objects.. the idea that you could define a moment of us.. thesis is problematic.. science already there.. but cultural/institutional references not there

29 min – p: the language designs how we move forward culturally

language as control/enclosure

30 min – p: we can’t collab effectively.. because we’re all chasing.. how to get interdependent..

begs we focus on curiosity over decision making

31 min – the reason we do a lot of crap work.. we don’t have a consumer econ.. we have a mal consumer econ.. we consume to fit psych holes.. left.. out of abuse.. which we then try to fix with a mal consumer econ.. t

spot on.. let’s focus on legit holes first.. and then trust the dance of 8b truly free/satisfied/filled people

almaas holes law et al

this is a vicious system we’re sitting in the middle of .. control rather than liberation.. we’ve reduced ourselves to labor and control..

to whales in sea world

32 min – we’re not really interested in upgrading the full capacity of what it means to be human.. we have to start imagining differently.. t

beyond contracts

mufleh humanity lawwe have seen advances in every aspect of our lives except our humanity– Luma Mufleh

imagine if we would just listen to and facil 8b daily curiosities  ie: cure ios city

33 min – unlocking the full capacity of being human is completely missing..t


begs a means to undo our hierarchical listening ie: 2 convers as infra

economies are all showing pathways to future.. we just haven’t democratized it.. ie: top athletes..  what if unlocked full capacity of all humans

34 min – what does a society the fully unlocks and liberates look like.. i think that’s the extraordinary mission at end of story.. what is the social contract.. to re imagine what a society looks like

looks like cure ios city

sans contracts

let’s touch on ubi.. because i think it’s a big part of this.. i think it’s the basis of democratizing innovation capacity.. building the largest liberation of human capacity we could ever imagine

again.. not deep enough.. still measuring/accounting/controlling/owning

won’t get to free people.. imagine deeper

what we need is to code money (any form of measuring/accounting) as the planned obsolescence

w/ubi as temp placebo.. needs met w/o money..people forget about measuring

so on one hand ubi on other radically undermine process orientated jobs.. that humans should be liberated from.. but also have to link that ubi to human development.. have to re imagine our schools/institutions to allow people to develop

so.. you’re bringing the control/ownership/cancer right back in..

36 min – the basis of (6 mo swedish schools for 35 yr olds) .. that you cannot construct future w/o ability to think w these new capabilities.. the democratization of the capacity to think

huge red flag man.. all we need to focus on is 8b daily curiosities.. and trust that

i think that’s the scale of what we have to do to (move on)

spinning wheels.. not deep enough

39 min – p: ‘i need to maintain hierarchy to be better off’.. not just better for me but worse for others

thurman interconnectedness lawwhen you understand interconnectedness it makes you more afraid of hating than of dying – Robert Thurman

we need a means to undo our hierarchical listening to self/others/nature.. to uncover our interconnectedness

42 min – on ie where we short circuited the psychological distance of the other

yeah.. let’s do that .. every day..

a means to augment our interconnectedness

44 min – politics of infra predicating a politic for only limited politics .. keeping us from seeing each other.. seeing lots of defensive decisions (ie: people would be lazy w ubi)

47 min – language structuring.. we discuss from baseline rather than topline.. this is where language infras become critical.. these convos do happen from super privileged in private.. we’ve destroyed the space for this thinking to happen.. and we’ve really undermined society’s capacity to make these leaps.. that is a real issue.. unless we rewire that language.. create the space to think

language as control/enclosure

begs we try idio-jargon/self-talk .. as data we focus on.. in order to connect us

..i think the just do culture.. the ‘just do it’ is exactly the problem.. destructive on the capacity to think on the obvious ness of the action.. we need to re cross those capabilities to do and think together.. only when those two things are decentralized and redistributed.. where everyone can do/think together.. can we create a deep democracy.. for all of society to create all of society together

beyond democracy (too loaded on decision making et al) .. ie: 2 convers as infra

48 min – p: we can’t make transformational leaps forward if we can’t even agree on the terms that we’re using.. what they mean

huge red flag.. we don’t need to agree on terms..

public consensus always oppresses someone(s)

49 min – this convo.. the heart of .. whether it’s construction of language/contract/ownership/property/receipt.. these things are the mechs to structure society.. how we structure the org of society

yeah.. and we have that all wrong..

imagine if instead we just structure around daily curiosity

50 min – they code people/relationship/capital.. ie: employment contract.. doesn’t take into account of emotional hours.. contracts based on hours.. don’t understand wider issues.. human activity has become fundamentally diff.. encoded in all these things.. if going to make meaningful revolution.. have to reimagine those contracts and relationship structure

actually deeper.. we need to let them go

52 min – these persist in everything.. re imagined.. our current thesis of bureaucracy based on wartime machine

we’re in middle of a bureaucratic revolution.. i think the bureaucratic revolution is at the foundation of our dealing w our relationship w ourselves/environ/future/things.. these are all going to get disrupted.. mechs of bureaucracy have to change from mechs of control to mechs of noblement.. of inviting us to be more noble.. that is a *completely diff thesis.. it’s about human development first not control

*maybe.. but not diff enough

let go

55 min – my go to place.. music .. the few pleasures i have (during pandemic).. looking forward to coffee

56 min – p recommends marianna’s entrepreneurial state

57 min – too many of us end up reading in our bubbles.. important to read other side with care.. important to listen.. so my rec’s: peter thiel; rebel wisdom; .. lenses they bring that are important to challenge ourselves with..  i think there is a deficit of structural thinking right now on the left.. the alt right narratives of philosophy are stronger.. because left are ignoring issues people really feel.. unless we build narratives that accommodate that.. will be counterintuitive.. only way forward is to listen