democracy
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seeing democracy as decision making as consensus as direct action as as if already free ness .. as democratic admin.. as any form of m\a\p .. as unmooring us
we need to let go of all that.. otherwise we’re just perpetuating tragedy of the non common
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adding page while reading Rebecca Solnit‘s hope in the dark..
in particular..
ch 5 – a history of shadows
loc 758
the limelights there (onstage) are so bright tat they blind you to he shadowy spaces around you, make it hard to meet the gaze of the other people in the seats, to see the way out of the audience, into the aisles, backstage, outside, in the dark, where other powers are at work.
the idea behind representative democracy is that the audience is supposed to choose the actors, and the actors are quite literally supposed to speak for us…
no longer need this (rep democracy ness) .. today.. we can all act/speak/listen/choose… everyday..
democracy is too much about decision making.. love/interconnectedness is about curiosity
perhaps we have the tech capabilities (io dance ness) to redefine decision making.. disengage from consensus
be\cause public consensus always oppresses someone (s)
let’s not perpetuate efficiency of a mode/medium/means we no longer need.
perhaps we be brave enough to disengage from what’s irrelevant. from all the manufactured consent ness.. the voluntary compliance ness. perhaps we reimagine our broken feedback loop
a nother way
ie: hosting-life-bits via self-talk as data.. as the day.. [aka: not part\ial]
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f & b & dm same law
moxie on democracy – yay
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economic democracy (doc)
film and book by Astra Taylor: what is democracy and democracy may not exist but will miss
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from Fabiana thread may day 2017
CrankyPappy🥃 (@CrankyPappy) tweeted at 5:07 PM – 30 Apr 2017 :
Democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts & murders itself. There never was a democracy that did not commit suicide.
~ John Adams https://t.co/tyLoXHf7g9 (http://twitter.com/CrankyPappy/status/858820097724620801?s=17)Fabiana Cecin (@fabianacecin) tweeted at 5:18 PM – 30 Apr 2017 :
@CrankyPappy The only real democracy was in ancient Athens. These things that commit suicide are ponzi schemes where sociopaths game the “representation” (http://twitter.com/fabianacecin/status/858822936513347584?s=17)
Radoslav Sharapanov (@radogado) tweeted at 1:56 AM – 1 May 2017 :
@fabianacecin @CrankyPappy No it wasn’t. Slaves and women (85% of population) had no right to vote. (http://twitter.com/radogado/status/858953203991416833?s=17)
Емил Nikolov 🎩 (@EmilKNikolov) tweeted at 9:55 PM – 30 Apr 2017 :
@fabianacecin actually democracy has never worked! It killed Socrates in ancient Athens. (http://twitter.com/EmilKNikolov/status/858892691777744896?s=17)
be\cause public consensus always oppresses someone (s)
Fabiana Cecin (@fabianacecin) tweeted at 7:09 AM – 1 May 2017 :
You can always say “System X doesn’t work because People.” No System will EVER “work” then by your definition of “work.” (http://twitter.com/fabianacecin/status/859031943396159488?s=17)
prior to now (but i’d suggest rather.. eudaimoniative surplus).. we now have means to facil all the voices/curiosities.. a nother way: hlb that io dance
Fabiana Cecin (@fabianacecin) tweeted at 7:10 AM – 1 May 2017 :
People will always do dumb shit. Social system, social organizational, “serious” games creation is about betterment. (http://twitter.com/fabianacecin/status/859032161135054852?s=17)
i think that’s less true than we think.. ie: sci of people ness.. but even so.. we can design for that and to dance with and so.. to diminish that..
Fabiana Cecin (@fabianacecin) tweeted at 7:10 AM – 1 May 2017 :
“Democracy killed Socrates!” “Democracy allowed for women not vote, slaves etc.” Well, ANY system you throw at a dumb culture does that. (http://twitter.com/fabianacecin/status/859032331646111745?s=17)
Fabiana Cecin (@fabianacecin) tweeted at 7:11 AM – 1 May 2017 :
Social systems are vehicles to help a culture heal itself and evolve. Either they hamper or help that process. They are heuristics. (http://twitter.com/fabianacecin/status/859032439150309376?s=17)
Fabiana Cecin (@fabianacecin) tweeted at 7:11 AM – 1 May 2017 :
Everything we have now is WORSE than actual Athens democracy. We bitch about “majority dictatorship” and reinforce minority dictatorship. (http://twitter.com/fabianacecin/status/859032629827522562?s=17)
Fabiana Cecin (@fabianacecin) tweeted at 7:12 AM – 1 May 2017 :
Here is the video. https://t.co/RxXHjG0syJ (http://twitter.com/fabianacecin/status/859032808240676864?s=17)
3 min – so.. go to a rep system.. but only those allowed to vote are..
4 min – toqueoville.. if have to choose between options.. wealthy will make theirs seem like only one
5 min – everyone so focused on right to vote.. forgot that reps.. can’t really rep.. end up with bosses instead of reps – rousseau
6 min – enter.. the pkg deal..
7 min – who gets to top.. the dull ones.. the ones who agree with everybody..
back to public consensus ness and supposed to’s
9 min – prior didn’t say democracy – said republican rep.. john adams: democracy will soon degenerate into anarchy.. democracy never last long
james madison: democracy incompatible with personal security and private property
key.. if being.. rather than having.. security and property irrelevant.. let’s design for that.. a nother way
10 min – word democracy not even mentioned once in constitution they wrote
human\e constitution ness
then said.. opp of rep govt is a democracy.. but called same..
so what is democracy
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more from Fabiana on democracy
Fabiana Cecin (@fabianacecin) tweeted at 8:13 AM – 4 May 2017 :
Choosing actual democracy (i.e. “direct” democracy) is choosing to see what humanity as a whole wants to try out for itself. (http://twitter.com/fabianacecin/status/860135305256607744?s=17)
‘as a whole’ begs we go deep enough.. ie: something resonate with 7 bn today.. since we now have the means for that.. no more need for ie: consensus.. beyond ie: maté basic needs
Fabiana Cecin (@fabianacecin) tweeted at 8:12 AM – 4 May 2017 :
The absence of democracy means what we try out as societies is determined by a minority that can figure out how to get into power. (http://twitter.com/fabianacecin/status/860135148767105024?s=17)
Fabiana Cecin (@fabianacecin) tweeted at 8:11 AM – 4 May 2017 :
Majorities are displays of overwhelming desire to try out something. If most your brain cells want to eat a turd, you do. (http://twitter.com/fabianacecin/status/860134861536997376?s=17)
Fabiana Cecin (@fabianacecin) tweeted at 8:14 AM – 4 May 2017 :
The only way humans learn to govern themselves is if they can try it out and make mistakes. (http://twitter.com/fabianacecin/status/860135569493549056?s=17)
Fabiana Cecin (@fabianacecin) tweeted at 8:18 AM – 4 May 2017 :
Learning to self-govern requires daily decision-making–from all. If all people are not deciding on all issues around them… no democracy. (http://twitter.com/fabianacecin/status/860136571374366720?s=17)
daily is huge.. since we now have means to facil all the voices/curiosities.. a nother way: hlb that io dance
Fabiana Cecin (@fabianacecin) tweeted at 8:19 AM – 4 May 2017 :
Democracy (actual) is not in itself intended as a governance system. It is a meta-system intended for people to learn the next system. (http://twitter.com/fabianacecin/status/860136858113765376?s=17)
Fabiana Cecin (@fabianacecin) tweeted at 8:21 AM – 4 May 2017 :
The practice of the political ideal of democracy–learning to self-govern–is both manifest in and enabled by the ideal of Basic Income. (http://twitter.com/fabianacecin/status/860137219536900098?s=17)
not manifest in.. bi is tied to measuring things – we have to disengage from taht..
Fabiana Cecin (@fabianacecin) tweeted at 8:21 AM – 4 May 2017 :
Basic Income and Direct Democracy are closely linked. They are both meta-systems intended to enable unpredictable good things down the line. (http://twitter.com/fabianacecin/status/860137377834168322?s=17)
? not bi ..
Fabiana Cecin (@fabianacecin) tweeted at 8:22 AM – 4 May 2017 :
Meta-systems are things nobody gets. Forget about explaining this to people. They can only be demonstrated in practice. (http://twitter.com/fabianacecin/status/860137568960204801?s=17)
so.. we model..
Fabiana Cecin (@fabianacecin) tweeted at 8:24 AM – 4 May 2017 :
It is easy to wield, use Basic Income after it is deployed. It is a trivial points system. Using (Direct) Democracy is not so immediate. (http://twitter.com/fabianacecin/status/860138154443067392?s=17)
killer trivial pt system..
killer..
Fabiana Cecin (@fabianacecin) tweeted at 8:25 AM – 4 May 2017 :
But were the conditions to exercise (Direct) Democracy present, the results would be far more astonishing than those of Basic Income. (http://twitter.com/fabianacecin/status/860138288362991616?s=17)
and.. bi is a cancer.. so.. let’s go w/conditions sans bi (or bi as temp placebo)
Fabiana Cecin (@fabianacecin) tweeted at 8:25 AM – 4 May 2017 :
In fact, that’s why Basic Income is the absolute first step. Basic Income IS the main enabler of the conditions for a (Direct) Democracy. (http://twitter.com/fabianacecin/status/860138429362974724?s=17)
as temp placebo
Fabiana Cecin (@fabianacecin) tweeted at 8:26 AM – 4 May 2017 :
THERE WILL BE NO DEMOCRACY WITHOUT BASIC INCOME FIRST (http://twitter.com/fabianacecin/status/860138487986704385?s=17)
as temp placebo
Fabiana Cecin (@fabianacecin) tweeted at 8:26 AM – 4 May 2017 :
Sorry for the caps. The insight jumped on my face and it startled me. (http://twitter.com/fabianacecin/status/860138685727215617?s=17)
perhaps like when i started to think .. we do need money (as temp placebo) to keep people from thinking about money/measuring
Fabiana Cecin (@fabianacecin) tweeted at 8:27 AM – 4 May 2017 :
Now I have to figure out the ordering between Basic Income and the ridiculous, cause-free insanity that is throwing people in cages. (http://twitter.com/fabianacecin/status/860138929454034944?s=17)
?
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Harold Jarche (@hjarche) tweeted at 5:58 AM – 18 Oct 2017 :
governance, reflection, practice https://t.co/aNr8ARcFOx (http://twitter.com/hjarche/status/920620139514560513?s=17)
“Democracy is a market based decision making system. We need a network based decision making system now.” – @JohnRobb
ie: hlb via 2 convos that io dance.. as the day..[aka: not part\ial.. for (blank)’s sake…].. a nother way
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Ethan Zuckerman (@EthanZ) tweeted at 6:20 AM – 17 Oct 2018 :
“Remember: Democracy doesn’t mean majority rules. It means we all agree on the rules.” Ominous Vox piece on the implications of a US political system that seems tilted against one party: https://t.co/OD0iOoA6x7 (http://twitter.com/EthanZ/status/1052534722583252993?s=17)
imagining 7bn agreeing to just 2 rules.. ie: 2 convos
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databite 118 – https://datasociety.net/events/databite-no-118-shoshana-zuboff/
democracy is like.. chasing a (hoola) hoop.. you catch it before it falls over.. that’s the game.. always have to be by its side to keep it rolling.. democracy is the hoop.. it’s not like one generation did it and we all sit back and take pics.. we’ve all got to do it – Shoshana Zuboff @shoshanazuboff
resonating to everyone.. everyday.. but begs as the day.. or it won’t work
and.. democracy is too much about decision making.. interconnectedness/love.. is more about curiosity
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eric and cathy on democracy and informed populace/citizenry
TED Talks (@TEDTalks) tweeted at 5:27 AM – 29 May 2019 :
“Democracy is one of the most faith-fueled human activities there is. Democracy works only when enough of us believe democracy works. It is at once a gamble and a miracle.” @ericpliu https://t.co/k30WG8HreR (http://twitter.com/TEDTalks/status/1133696367191314432?s=17)
no.. love/interconnectedness is.. democracy is too much about decision making.. love/interconnectedness is about curiosity
comment to tweet:
Democracy can’t exist without an informed citizenry.
and then another tweet at time:
Cathy Davidson (@CathyNDavidson) tweeted at 5:30 AM – 29 May 2019 :
This should be something we do not need to say but we need to say it over and over. Corollary: there is not democracy without an informed populace. There is not success in life without curiosity, creativity, and an openness to learning. https://t.co/3y5b8r3saK (http://twitter.com/CathyNDavidson/status/1133697088032780288?s=17)
this is main reason democracy is killing us (and perpetuates by calling it a given.. ie: shouldn’t need to repeat).. informed populace
love/interconnectedness trusts that all we need is already in us
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iain (@iainzeno) tweeted at 6:10 AM – 9 Sep 2019 :
@TonyGreenstein @davidgraeber “any process of democratization, opening the floor to everyone, will necessarily mean a lot of angry people with no training are going to be placed in front of microphones. (This is the reason why few parallel scandals come out of the Tory side, despite the wider prevalence..)” (http://twitter.com/iainzeno/status/1171033089868488704?s=17)
you have to train for democracy.. red flag
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Stephen Hurley Loves Radio! (@Stephen_Hurley) tweeted at 5:57 AM – 15 Feb 2020 :
Framing the current tensions in Ontario education as a type of PR war is insulting to those working in education AND to the public. This is not about winning the hearts of a malleable consumer. It’s about reclaiming the idea that public education is a vital organ of democracy. (http://twitter.com/Stephen_Hurley/status/1228664509067407360?s=17)
this is one reason why democracy ness unsettles me.. informed citizen ness et al.. perpetuating the supposed to’s/cancer.. of school/work
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post from harold – dec 2018 – saving democracy
Why do younger people generally think it is less essential to live in a democracy?https://t.co/HKG8RblpR8 Our institutions were designed for the age of print, not an electrically connected one. https://t.co/G9NanBgaZu
Original Tweet: https://twitter.com/hjarche/status/1255839844842065920
isn’t that a good thing?.. democracy et al
print ness (literacy and numeracy as colonialism/control/enclosure et al)
All of these are representative democracies, electing people to go to a central location and represent a constituency. Maybe they are no longer suitable for a network era society
‘..lack of support and credibility for existing models for resolution and decision-making..’
Our institutions are failing us. They were designed for the age of print, not an electrically connected one. We need new structures and the current wave of returns to tribalism manifested as populismwill not save us. As the advent of the printing press helped usher in an age of inquiry, first in the Christian religion and later in the enlightenment and scientific revolutions, so do we have to create new organizational and governance structures for a global network era.
If print enabled democracy, will the emerging electric/digital medium destroy it?
i’m hoping so (rep ness and decision making et al)
time to go with curiosity over decision making .. via every voice .. not just non repping reps
Therefore ensuring we have unfettered access to information, as citizens with inalienable rights, becomes paramount.
rather.. unfettered access to daily curiosity ie: cure ios city.. makes rights et al irrelevant
Our current non-networked institutions are inadequate organizational forms to deal with a liquid world. We need new network forms..t
links to article: preparing for perpetual beta
perpetual beta indeed.. but sans prep..
from beta article:
Finding communities of practice, where we can safely test alternative ways of thinking and doing, becomes a priority.
More and more work is happening in short-term project and work teams. Being able to jump in and out, learning as we work, becomes another critical skill set. Making sense of our work is an ongoing sense-making process. In the long run, the more we contribute to our social networks and communities of practice, the more resilient we will make them and in return will weave a stronger social safety net for ourselves.
perhaps more about antifragility (offense) than resilience (defense).. which i think we get to by focusing more on fittingness .. everyday.. than on contribution
in undisturbed ecosystems ..the average individual, species, or population, left to its own devices, behaves in ways that serve and stabilize the whole..’ –Dana Meadows
back to democracy article:
ensuring democracy 2.0
1. (of 3) First we have to understand ourselves. To make any progress collectively we must know our own selves first. For educators, religious leaders, and politicians, this should be the main effort for the next few decades. We need to work cooperatively, but first we have to know who each of us is. We have to be much better at sense-making. Enabling self-determination can provide the foundation for a new democracy.
call it democracy or whatever.. but this is all we need.. ie: the energy of 8b alive people
let’s do this first: free art-ists.
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The Return of Democracy by Lottery – New Politics https://t.co/qzTJhAZrxP
Original Tweet: https://twitter.com/mbauwens/status/1257176987875098625Imagine if instead of having politicians and political parties make our most important decisions, we empowered everyday people from all walks of life to dive into the issues, work through their differences, and seek common ground. No campaigns, no donors, no slick-talking politicos. Just real people having real conversations about issues that really matter. This is the promise of Citizens’ Assemblies, an exciting political practice that’s gaining momentum around the world. Rather than the ballot, people in these assemblies win their seats via a civic lottery. And instead of posturing for the media, scoring cheap shots against their opponents, or cozying up to lobbyists, they function as a true deliberative body. The idea may sound preposterous, but it’s as old as Western civilization itself. And its implementation would inaugurate one of the most democratic epochs in history.
imagine if instead of spending all that energy on assemblies/seats/lottery/issues/decision-making..
imagine if instead we tried curiosity over decision making
the case for democracy by lottery
Today’s brief for democracy by lottery rests on at least three principles: legitimacy, effectiveness, and credibility.
3 red flags: legit ness; effectiveness; and cred ness
First, legitimacy. In a pure democracy, every citizen would have direct, equal input on decisions.
again .. energy suck to focus on making decisions about a finite set of choices.. when today we can flip that and focus on 8b daily curiosities
rep ness is killing us
Secondly, effectiveness. Citizens’ Assemblies increase the diversity of voices in the decision-making process, allowing different people to come together by focusing on wider community needs.
we need to deeper.. not wider.. diversity to approach infinity
let’s increase the voices to all the voices.. everyday.. ie: tech as it could be..
Finally, credibility. Experience illustrates that *the public trusts the outcomes of Citizens’ Assemblies more than those of legislatures. They take ordinary people along on the decision-making process.
doesn’t matter what we *think we trust .. if we’re ie: whales in sea world thinking about whales in sea world going thru a whales in sea world process
didn’t read the rest
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from david graeber‘s fragments of an anarchist anthropology (too much to cut and paste here.. so go to page 847 for start of it if want more):
934
majority democracy, we might say, can only emerge when two factor coincide: 1\ felling that people should have equal say in making group decisions 2\ *a coercive apparatus capable of enforcing those decisions..
*i see consensus as such an apparatus
945
for most of human history, it has been extremely unusual to have both at the same time. where egalitarian societies exist, it is also usually considered wrong to impose systematic coercion.. where a machinery of coercion did exist, it did not even occur to those wielding it that they were enforcing any sort of popular will
maté trump law et al
this in turn might help explain the term ‘democracy’ itself, which appears to have been coined as something of a slur by its elitist opponents: it literally means the ‘force’ or even ‘violence’ of the people.. kratos, not archos. the elitists who coined the term always considered democracy not too far from simple rioting or mob rule;t hough of course their solution was the permanent conquest of the people by someone else.. and ironically, when they did manage to suppress democracy for this reason, which was usually, the result was that the only way the general populace’s will was known was precisely thru rioting, a practice that became quite institutionalized in, say, imperial rome or 18th cent england
wow.. yeah that..
democracy – as structural violence
956
all this is not to say that direct democracies – as practiced for ie in medieval cities or new england town meetings – were not normally orderly and dignified procedures ..
orderly and dignified as structural violence
though one suspects that here too, in actual practice, there was a certain baseline of consensus -seeking going on ..
and in that.. still the coercion going on .. ie: maté trump law
representation as structural violence
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from utopia of rules:
11
democracy thus came to mean the market; bureaucracy, in turn, govt interference w the market; and this is pretty much what the word continues to mean to this day
democracy.. bureaucracy.. f & b & dm same law.. decision making is unmooring us law et al
88
not because thee objects are somehow intrinsically difficult to admin democratically
rather.. it’s the thinking in terms/realms of admin/democratic ness – any form of m\a\p
.. history is full of communities that successfully engage in the democratic admin of common resources..
i don’t think we have any ie’s of that – and so we just keep perpetuating tragedy of the non common
upon re re re read: actually demo admin is the problem.. so ok sure. we’ve seen/perpetuated that tragedy
128
*signs of real democratic life are entirely absent in the show (star trek) – no character ever makes even a passing ref to elections, political parties, divisive issues, opinion polls, slogans plebiscites, protest, or campaigns..
that’s good no? all those are red flags we’re doing it/life wrong
gotta get rid of the infra.. that demands response over action.. democratic admin and *what democracy looks like
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David Wengrow (@davidwengrow) tweeted at 10:57 AM on Mon, Dec 21, 2020:
. . in which we consider what a new global history of #democracy could look like if we abandon an “Elgin marbles” view of the past. Rest in peace, dear friend. 2/2
#Tlaxcala #Mesoamerica #TheDawnOfEverything
@astradisastra here you go.
https://t.co/pi5utgesbB
(https://twitter.com/davidwengrow/status/1341080335581384710?s=03)What would happen if we stopped doing that? One result is that the human past would start to look very different, because once you begin searching for it, evidence of democratic practice is actually much more common than one might think—it even crops up in some surprisingly pivotal moments of world history. Often it is hiding in plain sight.
Are the ruins of Teotihuacán testimony to an early social revolution? Was the city democratically administered in its later phases? We cannot say for sure, but what we can say is that the context for such debates is changing.
we need more change.. we need a legit re\set
Aside from later examples in the Americas, contemporary research in Eurasia is beginning to show that long before fifth-century Athens, egalitarian cities and participatory forms of government were surprisingly common—the first urban cultures of Mesopotamia, Ukraine, and the Indus Valley, for instance, and also other cases of social revolution, like the Chinese city of Taosi at around 2000 bc.
great.. but still not what legit free people would be like.. imagine if we..
Again, future historians will likely see the origins of modern nation-states very differently than the way we do now. Equally, it seems, they will need to abandon an Elgin Marbles view of the past and make space for entirely new histories of democracy.
and/or.. entirely new histories/days .. sans democracy
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Democracy? Improbable.
You know why? Because the root of our society is based upon totalitarian business dictatorships.
And this oppression will exist and persist as long as the market economy prevails.
https://t.co/uznOYsbkCJ
Original Tweet: https://twitter.com/ZeitgeistFilm/status/1480001168835104772
democracy is also a form of oppression.. (any form of m\a\p.. any form of democratic admin)
we need (and now have the means) to go deeper..
every itch in the soul.. every day
non hierarchical listening
expanded convo on convo w s page
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be you. 