michel mentions her often.. so on radar for some time.. adding page this day:
Michel Bauwens (@mbauwens) tweeted at 5:49 AM on Sat, Aug 10, 2019:
Complex Potential States – Perspectives on Complexity – Medium https://t.co/9QeyU0s8uS (a new theory of change that fits well with the ‘low theory’ approach of the P2P Foundation)
It’s the “when the only thing you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail” syndrome. This usually means it is time to design new epistemological tools that can take us beyond that horizon of meaning. Since complex adaptive processes are deeply woven into evolutionary theory, in this case, we are looking for a new theory of change.
she’s talking from adapting to potential
I find it worrisome that complex adaptive systems thinking might be responsible for the fact that today we confront exponential escalation of everything. Here everyone and everything is construed as an agent who both struggles to adapt to continuous pressure, and in the process exerts continuous pressure on every other agent to adapt. Think of antibiotics and bacteria, insects and pesticides, markets and trade, nuclear arms and defense. It seems to reiterate in our responses to the crises of the Anthropocene. Every adaptive response we make, only makes matters worse. Every contributing factor we discover, only makes understanding more complex.
perpetuating whales in sea world
“what if we didn’t make that first move toward adaptive escalation?” What else might we do, and what difference might that make?” Is there some new way of thinking that can carry us forward?
yeah.. thinking curiosity over decision making
Today I coined the term Complex Potential States to designate a shift from thinking in terms of adaptive pressure and escalating complexity, toward a more process philosophical view where systems are not bounded entities with agency that struggle to adapt, but are construed as relational states composed by all agents that strive to advance.
what if ‘striving to advance’ is also an adaptive response.. only making matters worse.. meaning – what if we were made to strive to advance.. what if we were just made for fittingness
hoping video i’m watching below touches on that.. trusting our self org ness
In living systems, relational-states cohere far from equilibrium, which means that the topology between states is steep, and the space where coherence happens is narrow. It is this feature of “steep and narrow” that accounts for the precarity of being.
In process philosophy, coherent states are called actual occasions. They are fixed, temporal and real. In process philosophy there are also potential states which are a-temporal durations of “prehension” which are like liminal spaces (think pupa stage inside the cacoon).
Those not selected are in a sense “left behind,” but they are not eliminated… endure from moment to moment, even when they have not “adapted” to fit the incoming “occasion.
We can also think of governance and politics this way, where minority positions may never be turned into legislation, but they are operating none-the-less to change the conversation and carry opinion forward
causes are simultaneously nowhere and everywhere. Such a theory would posit that only actual effects exist, while causes “merely” subsist, and that is why they are not detectable. Since causes do not actually exist, then there is nothing to respond or adapt to. There is no struggle, only creative advance. Unlike the logic of complex adaptive systems, which asks “what do we do now?” the logic of complex potential states leads us to the question “what can we do from here?”
Is it possible, then, to reframe the big questions of climate change, existential risk, institutional crisis, and the breakdown of meaning, from one of adaptive pressure on a global scale to a theory of complex potential states on a human scale? In a world as diverse in people and rich in meanings as ours, big change might come from small acts by everyone operating everywhere in the contexts that already present themselves in their ordinary lives. These might form what Connolly calls “the uncanny processes of creativity.” “The process is uncanny,” Connolly writes, “because creativity is neither the simple result of a profound intention, nor the realization of a preordained principle waiting to be elaborated.”
taking more in here – 2017 – Bonnitta Roy – HOW SELF ORGANIZATION HAPPENS AND WHY YOU CAN TRUST IT – 40 min video – [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UFk9F2ohhE]
3 min – this is a sense of self org where you let your own thoughts self-org.. i just want to honor this whole notion of self org
let your imagination going into what you think is possible.. that’s never been possible before
4 min – people want to augment democracy.. we all believe in democracy.. how many of you would run org thru demo process.. one man one vote.. hardly anyone.. so why run a country that way.. something about this concept is not meshing..
we’re about reinventing org life.. social institutions and social participation
5 min – how many people really trust self org (hardly anyone)
2 easiest people to convince.. ones who really believe you and ones who are skeptical..
6 min – for the most part.. the way we go about our daily lives is by highly conditioned patterns.. by our schools.. et al.. so basically trying to escape highly conditioned actions
7 min – we need to take a step back into something i call deep code.. who are we as human beings.. as human beings we self org.. can we deconstruct the social conditions and habits down to our deep human operating system
get the whales out of sea world.. and back/to an undisturbed ecosystem: ‘in undisturbed ecosystems ..the average individual, species, or population, left to its own devices, behaves in ways that serve and stabilize the whole..’ –Dana Meadows
and then build new structures from there..
stuart kaufmann – order vast and generative, arises naturally.. most of the order seen in nature in spontaneous.. a natural expression that a stunning self-org abounds
8 min – self-org at this level (dna – messenger rna) is not a trivial thing
9 min – what about the environ attracts diff ways of self org
self org ness
11 min – was that hierarchy (dominance – who eats who) in nature.. or in the model of the researcher doing it
12 min – (in our bodies/minds) we self org to distribute the energy load of our task demands.. so self org is not a trivial thing..
hmm.. i think our self org ness is deeper than tasks.. i think when we go deep enough .. as you say.. many of the tasks you’ve mentioned will become irrelevant
14 min – most demands now are cognitive.. so we need to distribute the energy load of that
15 min – sugata mitra – soles – the power of trusting self org is really quite amazing
imagine how much more amazing if we truly trusted people.. ie: ie’s of soles you mentioned: learning language et al.. may not be tasks we’d care about if we were truly ourselves (human beings rather than whales in sea world.. first)
his soles weren’t truly free environs.. not ones that would get us to fittingness
16 min – other thing about self org.. rely on simple protocols.. simple protocols generate the rich environ.. so need to look for simple protocols
17 min – we’ve conditioned people .. and we want to understand self org from this deeper code.. if we can get back and understand ourselves as good at self org..
indeed.. spot on.. and i’d say.. go deeper.. ie: get out of the learning environ set up.. the business org (who you’re talking to) set up..
18 min – so two step.. not just realizing that deep code.. but taking it into the future
19 min – can i get back to understanding myself as a self org being
we’re all unique.. but also social
maté basic needs – a and a
21 min – triangle diagram: autonomy id; agency interaction; relational intention
the challenges are that we are in the revolution of being very individuated
23 min – if you do the workshops.. plug plug.. these are the types of ways you can look at your orgs
perhaps if we truly trust self org.. we’d realize it begs to be w/o training – you’ve even said that earlier.. no rules to follow.. so wouldn’t having workshops be a red flag we’re doing it wrong?
24 min – scaled agility.. and perhaps a loss of individuality.. always this toggle when scaling of large groups..
25 min – when we’re looking at human self org.. we’re looking at emergent potentials.. burning man as experiment in emerging potentials
so what’s the challenge in emergent potentials.. what is coming on line for us that has never been there before..
26 min – when people come together.. like putting palm of hands together.. they have to negotiate their intentions/anxieties
that’s the new thing.. we don’t have negotiate anymore.. we have enough people and a means to listen to every voice/curiosity.. everyday.. first.. so that consensus/decision making et al.. becomes irrelevant..
and today.. they are both front and center.. assumed as natural.. that’s killing us.. that’s keeping us in sea world..
the interesting that happens when they come together.. and this is the key piece to remember.. they are going to feel the pressure to create roles.. this is my identity.. in order for these things to sync up .. we have to fall into the id we accept – of i get to talk to you
whales in sea world are.. but not truly free human beings
this is huge. . wish we could talk.. not about accepting an id in order to talk to people.. it’s about.. using the means we now have (the new thing – ie: to ground the chaos of getting back/to authentic self org ness) to listen first to what’s inside each person.. everyday..
only way to get to and keep our fittingness
in orgs we’ve traditionally only given people a few roles to play.. but it gets us stuck in those roles.. the emergent property in self org is to learn how to be very flexible in those id’s.. and just move to action
this is difficult.. and why most people say.. just give me a role.. so when we work with these people we say.. what available roles were given.. can you think of other types of roles
29 min – so you can work w this to create very very high performance teams
broken record here.. but again.. wrong focus.. not about performance .. but about fittingness and trusting that to self org
when that all works itself out.. you get an emergent outcome..
people have been working on this.. no roles.. just letting them emerge.. ie: burning man.. that’s all people are doing.. practicing (costumes) new ways of being human in social space
let’s go deeper since we can
30 min – what is it about us that we have to re create
32 min – power is also a complex pattern in self org teams.. power is my skills/resources divided by my needs/wants.. ie: greater needs/wants reduces my power.. so this becomes a complex negotiation
yeah.. again.. i think we can go deeper.. mostly because we have no idea what free human being needs/wants are (whales in sea world).. but also .. it will never work if we think people w greater needs/wants have something we’d call ‘less power’
here’s the thing.. in this negotiation.. i can see a whole range of id’s
let go of negotiating ness
it won’t turn into collab action if we can’t settle on an id for each one of us
so.. i think this both wrong and huge.. i think it’s part of the whales in sea world myth/cancer
35 min – if you’re really honest w yourselves you’ll see.. that with all your interactions at work aren’t just unconscious.. who am i going to allow myself to be in this space.. learning how to negotiate the power dynamics
36 min – q&a
37 min – q: what does this whole notion have to do with the tragedy of the commons a: i think it has a lot to do with it.. the piece is in that triangle.. it’s how we’re reacting when we’re sitting down and negotiating
ugh – the commons don’t/can’t be negotiated.. otherwise it’s not really common\ing.. aka: an undisturbed ecosystem: ‘in undisturbed ecosystems ..the average individual, species, or population, left to its own devices, behaves in ways that serve and stabilize the whole..’
tragedy of commons et al
38 min – people who vote for the commons.. don’t really understand their own lived experience.. they may give away autonomy in negotiation.. to preserve the commons we have to be able to hook up and be agentic.. being doing things w other people.. not just showing up and sharing id..
so those words seem spot on.. but i don’t think you get there in the ways you’ve described.. i think we have to start w each inner voice.. everyday
self org requires people to show up in a very healthy way
indeed.. and i don’t think that happens unless we listen to each voice first each day (the new thing we can now do).. you’re describing a healthier way.. but not the healthiest way.. one that could get us back/to a self org’d undisturbed ecosystem
we focus on power/dominance.. but we don’t focus on our own needs/wants.. which reduces my (power).. ie: if i have so many needs/wants .. he (employer) might just say now.. and i’ll feel dominated.. from having too many needs/wants..
spot on here.. but it’s because the dance isn’t about needs/wants.. it’s about curiosity.. if we go there first.. needs/wants completely change/diminish
ie: horses – we don’t want to dominate or be dominated.. we want to be leaders.. so w horses.. we want to shape the horses character.. they have to live in the human world
wow.. you mean.. they are living in the whales in sea world world
but the horse is going to shape my leadership.. always testing me.. you have to allow that in.. rather than pushing down.. let that testing rise me up.. so how many roles can i be in relations.. there’s a lot of teaching on that.. (how to be agile in roles w diff relationships)
we can do so much better than that today.. thinking we need training/teaching.. a red sign we’re doing it wrong.. and that we’ll never get to the limit of roles.. so that we’d don’t even talk about roles anymore.. just daily curiosities.. et al
Bonnitta Roy has been doing some of the most insightful (pun intended) work that I am aware of. Much of what I currently am capable of is as a result of working with her several years ago.
My experience is that Bonnie’s stuff requires taking slowly and often considering a few times. This is moving into Real Thinking.
Bonnitta Roy has been working in the field of collective intelligence for years, developing many powerful methods and applications. In this film with @ they explore the different kinds of CI, focusing on Collective Insight Practice.youtu.be/XxLMavVsZxc @
1 hr interview by david fuller (@fullydavid) founder of rebel wisdom (part of collective intelligence series) of bonnitta – sept 13 2019
3 min – b: no one knows how do to anything.. w/o this collective system.. ie: how to build an airplane.. the term we would use: swarm intelligence or hive mind.. we don’t even know how to feed ourselves..
4 min – b: the trajectory of this intelligence is ai.. so soon will know less.. i don’t think this is what we’re talking about
5 min – b: might say we have collective intelligence.. but not relationally connected.. some of these practices are helping us reclaim something we had a long time ago..
6 min – b: ci that is relevant.. term i use.. collective insight practice..
7 min – b: we have structures that limit our authenticity.. we need ways to deconstruct that.. diff than ci.. working on these limiting structures.. held by individual in a group.. practices particular to potential in an individual..t
9 min – b: can group potentiate the individual.. people start seeing structures.. frustrated .. but enacted same structures they were fighting against.. realize structures are introjected in them.. inside own psyches .. so have to go back to change them.. that marks to be the new capacity
11 min – b: what i call collective insight: a methodology for people to get together and come up w insights/knowings/plans/models/ideas that none of them had before getting together.. knowing they couldn’t come up w w/o coming together.. knowing everyone held a piece for this way of perceiving..
dang.. sounds like ‘enacted same structures they were fighting against’ – focus on insight rather than curiosity
13 min – b: jordan use to say – we’re running malware.. you need a meta cognition to run in and see.. if running scripts to fight system.. just building up the system.. t
d: often worse.. ie: on addressing hierarchy.. end up w underground sub terrain hierarchy.. less visible..
15 min – b: when i started this.. and was going to (gatherings).. my first reaction was.. omg.. we’re still being manipulated.. and much better at it.. i’d rather someone be an a hole than it being underground.. ie: ‘saying everything allowed.. then saying – just speak from higher selves.. ‘ – psych manipulation.. et al
16 min – b: why so important – there’s an evolutionary part to this.. as a species we’re changing.. always been more social that have been pre constituted by collective.. only recently realized can be autonomous w/o being (one).. but then how to put the ci back).. integrate power of unique w the collective.. only system that will solve pickle we’re in
18 min – b: beyond self altering mind.. most have self altering minds but hard for them to work as a team.. no skill set to go beyond being individual contributor.. these are experiment i’ve been doing for 5 yrs.. we’ve learned a lot of things.. ie: stage trying to get rid of own limiting structure.. can get exhausted.. most missing a clear purpose.. my current work is creating community w work/purpose at center
23 min – b: there is a trap in some of these communities to have never ending list of interpersonal problems.. notion of knowing *when to move from individual to group.. where my work is at this point.. and a lot of it is in work environ.. because don’t have to pretend the we.. defn of we vs us (work vs political).. how to get dynamics in collective to become a more powerful we
*everyday.. daily curiosity
25 min – b: this is particularly suited for two things.. 1\econ.. really hard to solve.. what is an econ w/o global currency.. currency that can be traded.. really hard .. ie: catch self using gift econ.. then when does it come back.. so just a transactional exchange.. so what is an econ outside of what we’ve always thought.. very hard to see outside production in econ
also hard to see outside mindset of production..
ie: ubi as temp placebo..
27 min – b: i think people are working on that.. ie: holochain..
the trick in collective insight practice.. have to invite others in otherwise will keep your own ideas
28 min – d: quoting on those who are certain need to be silent.. all these fixed methods are going to fail.. we need something new
30 min – b: book called senectics.. from 40s.. creating products like thermoses.. how to go into nature and think more creatively.. would have to have secretaries bring food et al.. eventually they started sitting in on brainstorming.. and would say stuff that would stir thoughts in men having these convos..
33 min – b: so .. i think all perspective are valuable (d had asked who to listen to).. and some of juice that comes in is when some come in and irritate you.. but the person adding these perspective has to be able to be authentic.. and not be strategizing their belonging needs.. ie: i don’t know i’m just going to say it.. but a cloud in sky.. when the cloud in sky is what it’s about
35 min – b: that to me is collective insight practice.. obviously we don’t know how to do that yet
36 min – b: on coherence and jamie wheel saying how do we cohere at scale.. and i think that’s the trap .. i think coherence is far from the equilibrium. by defn it’s a temp stability.. need to cycle thru stages.. there’s a real chance that all coherence is *local.. and this has to do with .. entropy.. and.. how coherent systems have to increase entropy in the global scene..t
*perhaps even more local than insight.. ie: daily curiosity
37 min – b: so in collective insight.. can put global coherence aside.. and say.. coherence only happens locally.. and can then say.. then what’s possible.. and when do that.. a whole new paradigm opens up.. that’s a distinction i would make w jamie (flow project).. in teams you can get that coherence.. but again it’s local..
39 min – b: why do we need these states to de cohere.. that’s when you need action plans et al.. so when look from complexity science.. get used to de cohering (ie: electrons)
40 min – d: jordan’s sovereignty.. that we can only do this when work on selves first
41 min – b: for collective insight practice that’s a necessary pre condition.. have to be individuated.. want sovereignty of person but needs to be capable to cohere.. but still local coherence.. if you didn’t cohere.. all meaning would be open forever.. at some level the cosmos is coherent.. we don’ have to help cosmos along.. but how to do the human scale
43 min – b: collective insight practice very hard to do.. the first capacity we need is to resolve social conditioning.. ie: belonging needs.. can’t do collective insight if have belonging needs.. ie: needs to belong to the group.. they will prejudice how you perform
social control et eal
44 min – b: we don’t want to change practices to assuage people’s belonging needs.. we want people to reflect on these psych structures .. deeper than social conditioning.. that’s why collective practice is hard.. really hard for people to get beyond that.. to get out of the schemas of authority/roles/auto-bio-coherence.. i call it gate keeping
45 min – b: auto bio coherence: we can track primary psych structure of people over time.. ie: belonging; role;.. today become self authoring.. show that self authoring liberates .. but we reconstruct that narrative retrospectively.. dependent on preserving this auto bio coherence..
why we need bravery/freedom to change mind everyday
47 min – d: auto bio coherence esp important when have public profile.. w a positions to defend.. difficult to give up to enter new space
49 min – b: i do want to say.. that these people also have a job.. who’s to say they don’t drop that auto bio in more local coherent groups.. but that is how it’s sticky rigid
b: in my students.. switching from story they tell and looking for authenticity.. what is the authentic self.. it’s not even the one the self authors.. find authentic self is not a psych structure at all.. it’s an evolutionary process.. moment in time.. t
begs self-talk as data.. as detox/hastener
b: then when get to these .. can see other limitings potentials of ie: liberation.. sometimes .. the more arousal.. more difficult to present with in the space
51 min – b: so what does it look like – more powerful when in a nice setting.. in nature.. on site continuously for at least 3 days.. eat/sleep/play together.. creates exhaustion.. but in early part of practice want people to be exhausted to let go.. organism to tired to structure itself.. i have techniques to short circuit this..
53 min – b: one is reverse bohemian dialogue.. (bohemian: only contribute something very valuable).. so share anything.. so people can get confidence to share.. people realize that when you don’t gate keep thoughts they don’t become disingenuous..strategizing.. t
54 min – b: the spontaneously speaking self is actually a wonderful thing..t
and that’s a big insight
via tech as it could be
55 min – d: a no filter
b: yeah.. the right timing
b: hopeful about people making these distinctions.. would like to see it in orgs.. if people who have a wicked problem are already a group/team.. good to find people who could level it up to collective insight practice.. get some local coherence going
57 min – d: are there more men involved in this..? so far just interviewed men
58 min – b: when i first started.. people convinced only men could do this work.. women have more patience.. men tend to have more creative energy.. originally flushed out.. but i don’t believe that anymore.. women’s internal working models are diff than mens.. but both are internal working models.. so ways to resolve them are same.. way to manifest is wrong focus.. when see same.. can get over it..
or.. that’s just part of our social conditioning as well ie: binary ness
1:01 – d: should we be getting more women on our podcast
b: i wouldn’t do anything to morph your podcast.. i’d like to see more women doing podcasts.. i don’t feel need for women to be-on/make podcasts they don’t want to do
via jon fb share – post from bonnitta:
Stay home one day at a time. Think of it as practice for getting out of the rat race once and for all. Don’t focus on what you are giving up. Imagine what you might gain. We have not been able to go to the monastery to do this. The monastery came to us.
bachelard oikos law.. et al
“We are in a situation where people are staying home, away from school away from work. And what do you notice? The government has the resources to print money to keep the economy going. We don’t really have to be in a growth…” — @bonnittaroy https://t.co/TP4D5tQvvO
Original Tweet: https://twitter.com/bonnittaroy/status/1240658926753980422
We don’t really have to be in a growth production-consumption cycle to maintain the flow of currency, goods and services. All we need is to decide on a new agreement.
We can agree that currency is a tool to mediate the flow of goods and services. We can agree that currency should be equitably distributed — at least when it comes to essential goods and currency. We can agree that we can distribute currency independent of the interest-debt-tax-investment-speculation economy — the type of economy that is extractive and predatory.
adding this here.. (since seems to bash roy and rowson most.. but also rutt, hall, game b, et al): [https://medium.com/the-abs-tract-organization/the-world-thats-emerging-289403c62d5b]
while some good points.. and indeed.. we should question everything/one.. the issue isn’t one person over another.. it’s .. how to include all of us.. how to undo our hierarchical listening ie: 2 convers as infra
ie of his (cooper’s) questioning not going deep enough.. so he’s doing the same thing he’s blaming/questioning others for:
Roy claims that “transformation” (at least her version) is “not predictable”, but rather “emergent”. She then outlines the “first steps” (again with the fresh start, for a future fantasy under her auspices) to restart communities around “village learning”. What Roy calls “special work-to-college programs” actually just sounds like child labour when you really think about it. She has no awareness of the actual large scale transformation that is needed, including free education all the way through university.
the large scale transformation wouldn’t have us ‘educating’ anyone – red flags et al
If it has not been made clear throughout this essay and my work, I cannot stress enough the importance of supporting actual critical intellectual voices, cutting through the hypocrisy; this is how we solve the meta-crisis.
Do we need institutions right now?
Check out the full interview with @BonnittaRoy at https://t.co/tQlJli0JMo.
Original Tweet: https://twitter.com/FutureThinkers_/status/1279505511193477121
10 min video – jul 2020
institutions are automatic.. how irrelevant they are to what matters to human beings.. what’s the alt to institutions..t
ie: cure ios city
sans disruption (because it’s what we all already crave)
5 min – that movie that’s been playing in your head.. is not there anymore.. you look at how you use your time.. it’s a way to create meaning inside the workplace
oh wow.. let go
7 min – energy has to go somewhere.. people just want to be out there with other people.. so now more people out in unsafe places.. just shows the fallacy of control..
9 min – can we come up w an understanding of systems that doesn’t lead us to that response.. escalate the complexity.. this is a hole in our tool kit..t
perhaps because we haven’t yet listened deep enough.. to get to the root of healing..
what we need is a means to undo our hierarchical listening to self/others/nature.. everyday
Founding Associate, APP Associates, International