voc – roberto valenti – liminal village
Roberto Valenti – Liminal Village (Valley of the Commons)
valley of the commons – wk2 – 8 31-26 – roberto valenti – liminal village
michel on pop up villages.. zachary marlow.. et al
via tweet [https://x.com/VotC2026/status/2094358944638513413?s=20]:
our second week is starting now with the keynote by Roberto from @LiminalVillage on building a social, legal & technological stack for a regenerative commons join us live here [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cH179Qj0FsQ]
notes/quotes from 90 min video:
Roberto Valenti – Liminal Village (Valley of the Commons)
50 this week.. more coming later.. 12 from near village and others from outside
shifting roles each week
8 min – nena (intro of roberto): – people told me need to talk to you about tech you are building for organizing hubs
9 min – roberto: been doing this for 10 yrs.. chose more community oriented older presentation but with new title – a socio-economic techno legal stack for regen common – so like a full stack – start with sentence from
stack ness et al
10 – min – bill mollison.. co founder of permaculture: ‘if we don’t have the fundamental freedom to choose which econ systems we want to participate in, and a direct voice in governing them, then we don’t have freedom at all’
to me.. if still ‘choosing’ and ‘governing’ still not legit free
oof.. was so excited from intro ie: tech to org.. and when i first heard of liminal village et al.. but to me (warning ness) this is another ie of re inventing a wheel that is itself (good bye cycle) a cancerous distraction until we first create the conditions for us all to be legit free
findings from on the ground ness deep dive on why we need tech w/o judgment
ie: the dance won’t dance unless/until it’s 1\ all of us 2\ legit free
nothing to date (ever since that day) has gotten to that root of problem
legit freedom will only happen if it’s all of us.. and in order to be all of us.. has to be sans any form of measuring, accounting, people telling other people what to do
how we gather in a space is huge.. need to try spaces of permission where people have nothing to prove to facil curiosity over decision making..
because the finite set of choices of decision making is unmooring us.. keeping us from us..
ie: imagine if we listen to the itch-in-8b-souls 1st thing everyday & use that data to connect us (tech as it could be.. ai as augmenting interconnectedness)
the thing we’ve not yet tried/seen: the unconditional part of left to own devices ness
to me.. w/o that global detox.. we’re still wasting ourselves/resources/energy.. et al
what the world needs most is the energy of 8b alive people
so humanity needs a leap.. to get back/to simultaneous spontaneity .. simultaneous fittingness.. everyone in sync.. the dance of an undisturbed ecosystem [‘in an undisturbed ecosystem ..the individual left to its own devices.. serves the whole’ –dana meadows]
there’s a legit use of tech (nonjudgmental exponential labeling) to facil the seeming chaos of a global detox leap/dance
ie: whatever for a year.. a legit sabbatical ish transition
otherwise we’ll keep perpetuating the same song.. the whac-a-mole-ing ness of sea world.. of not-us ness.. of part\ial ness.. perpetuating survival triage.. for (blank)’s sake..
on bill – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Mollison: Bruce Charles “Bill” Mollison (4 May 1928 – 24 September 2016) was an Australian researcher, author, scientist, teacher and biologist. In 1981, he was awarded the Right Livelihood Award “for developing and promoting the theory and practice of permaculture”. Permaculture (from “permanent agriculture”) is an integrated system of ecological and environmental design which Mollison co-developed with David Holmgren and which they envisioned together as a perennial and sustainable form of agriculture. In 1974, Mollison began his collaboration with Holmgren and in 1978 they published their book Permaculture One,
david holmgren.. holmgren indigenous law.. hans et al
still 10 min – if look at greek for economy .. actually means household managemtn – oikos – house + nemein – manage = oikonomia – household management.. so how do we manage our household our common household.. planet earth.. because looks like we haven’t been managing for a while nobody is thinking to clean up yet
huge huge huge.. as long as we’re detoxed first.. otherwise just perpetuating parents are the first ness et al (ie: still thinking myth of tragedy and lord and that it will takes a lot of work to clean that up which just perpetuates not us ness)
rather.. need ie: bachelard oikos law – again.. to facil the thing we’ve not yet tried/seen: the unconditional part of left to own devices ness
ie: imagine if we listen to the itch-in-8b-souls 1st thing everyday & use that data to connect us (tech as it could be.. ai as augmenting interconnectedness)
year 2 – the be you house et al from on the ground ness
to me.. haven’t been able to do this since that day.. because has to be all legit free for the dance to dance
and so again.. shorter version.. (yeah i’m quietly screaming here.. wishing we could have a convo).. findings from on the ground ness.. deep dive on why we need tech w/o judgment:
1\ undisturbed ecosystem (unconditional part of common\ing) can happen
2\ if we create a way to facil the seeming chaos of 8b (aka: all) legit free people (aka: unconditional part)
the dance won’t dance unless/until it’s 1\ all of us 2\ legit free
11 min – old symbols in rock saying .. hey.. it wasn’t always like this.. so we are at crossroads and can choose which way to go
but again to me.. nothing legit free (oikos ness) since that day – need something we’ve not yet tried/seen
[had this noticing while forcing myself to break from roberto and take a walk for pain: my huge from voc et al]
12 min – the question is.. when we look at future what is the role of tech.. i think the actual thing is that real communities the ones that really function don’t need any tech.. always remember that.. we are not depending on the system we created.. we need to be dependent on each other
oooof.. huge man..
1\ that is actually the utopia ness that i learned from on the ground ness (and very relevant to my huge from voc ness) because we are so intoxicated (ie: imagine a turtle ness).. that we need a means (ie: tech as softwave ness for global detox/re\set) first/most.. otherwise we’ll keep speaking/hearing whalespeak in any/all convos we have.. since that day.. even and especially with ourselves..
need self-talk as data via tech as it could be
and in order to ‘trust’ that.. we need tech as it could be.. why we need tech w/o judgment
need 1st/most: means (nonjudgmental expo labeling) to undo hierarchical listening – so we can hear what’s already on each heart as global detox in order to org around legit needs
ie: imagine if we listen to the itch-in-8b-souls 1st thing everyday & use that data to connect us (tech w/o judgment.. ai as augmenting interconnectedness)
13 min – solar punk dreams.. but in an island.. doing it right but rest of world isn’t.. so can we connect.. do the right thing.. the permaculture.. solar power.. and we’re interconnected.. and using that interconnection to be the change.. as we’re seeing people are having a good time.. that’s where people are going to want to join..we’re not fighting it.. we can actually see what’s good and make that bigger
again .. to me.. that won’t happen until we go deeper than perma/solar/whatever.. nothing to date is showing us a deep enough way.. we need a legit other way
totally right on the not fighting ness.. that’s exactly my huge from voc.. but first have to have the thing.. be so deep that it gets to the root of problem
we need a problem deep enough to resonate w/8b today.. via a mechanism simple enough to be accessible/usable to 8b today.. in an ecosystem open enough to set/keep 8b legit free
ie: org around a problem deep enough (aka: org around legit needs) to resonate w/8b today.. via a mechanism simple enough (aka: tech as it could be) to be accessible/usable to 8b today.. and an ecosystem open enough (aka: sans any form of m\a\p) to set/keep 8b legit free
14 min – the beautiful thing is that people have been trying to do this for a long time.. mass happenings.. and they don’t even know each other.. all trying to make the world a better place.. what’s really missing is how to weave them.. putting them on wikis is not weaving
spot on.. yeah.. except.. to me.. none of them are deep enough.. since that day.. so even connecting them will be a cancerous distraction
15 min – we need a system that is going to track not only the form of capital (chart w 8 forms of capital: social, financial, material, natural, intellectual, spiritual, experiential, cultural).. beautiful we have a common langugae/god – money.. but there are many other forms of capital that have nothing to do with money and we’re not tracking them.. we need to bring awareness
oooof man.. same song
all of this can only start with community – common unity.. people that are practicing that.. look as maslow pyramid for basic needs.. community covers everything else.. so ultimately need money for covering basic needs.. everything else just needs each other
well kind of.. but major problem with that.. is it won’t end.. we’ll never get back/to the dance until we find a way sans any form of m\a\p
ie: whatever for a year.. a legit sabbatical ish transition
otherwise we’ll keep perpetuating the same song.. the whac-a-mole-ing ness of sea world.. of not-us ness.. of part\ial ness.. perpetuating survival triage.. for (blank)’s sake..
16 min – if that’s the case why do people not lie in community.. it’s very difficult.. the process of communification.. start with community of one.. when community of two..we start to relate.. realizze we have something in common
actually again.. not until we are in detoxed.. otherise all the things we think we have in common are forms of whalespeak.. perpetuating survival triage.. same song
we need tech as it could be.. tech as softwave ness.. to detox us first/most.. and then the common ness will be a part of the dance.. that doesn’t takes a lot of work.. no prep.. no train.. the dance already in us.. just covered (or taken away ie: imagine a turtle)
17 min – we can use that common ality to create a bigger community.. the problem with community is that it requires communication.. that’s where the problems start.. because everybody has a different perception of the word
why we need self-talk as data via idiosyncratic jargon.. facil’d by nonjudgmental expo labeling
we need this even w/o ourselves..
ie: imagine if we listen to the itch-in-8b-souls 1st thing everyday & use that data to connect us
18 min – so biblical issue.. trying to do something great together but can’t communicate.. so project will fail
tower of babel ness et al
we have created a tool.. turns out computers are very good at communicating..
to me this is because of the thing they can’t do that we can’t seem to.. ie: tech w/o judgment –
nonjudgmental expo labeling
19 min – so can we use this tool to get over the human communication hump.. to achieve our shared objectives
yes yes yes .. ie: tech as it could be
but again.. it needs a detox embed.. otherwise.. not ‘our’ shared ‘objectives’.. just things whales would consider doing in sea world
tech as a form of mediate telepathy – now know what person is feeling.. but then too much noise.. so how to fine tune it.. basically.. we can used tech as place where all info from planet is stored.. and hone down to info we actually ness
and again.. right track.. but makes no diff unless we try legit diff data.. ie: self-talk as data.. as global detox.. first/most
20 min – imagine it like.. do you know where is the place in california where your skills are needed.. do you even know what your neighbor needs.. we have all this tech.. but we don’t even know what our neighbor needs..
again.. not until global detox.. so we can org around legit needs
until then.. maybe seem more connected.. more humane.. more ‘need’ fulfilling.. but still just perpetuating the same song.. the whac-a-mole-ing ness of sea world.. of not-us ness.. of part\ial ness
so we created regenerative.earth: ‘a glocal network of inter dependent individuals, communities, and projects, focused on integral regeneration’.. so if you’re doing any of that.. you’re welcome to come be part of the network.. now focusing on bioregions.. toronto valley.. but developing techs that can be for any valley.. including voc
21 min – we started 8 yrs ago.. liminal village.. manifestation where people can come help create this tech.. only pick up when needed.. tech that doesn’t enslave us but only helps us.. we did this thru temp communities.. lunation protocol.. people stay new moon to new moon.. ‘what do people like.. let’s do that’.. diverse.. all kinds of diff people.. we can’t tell people what to do but say you have to do something for self, place and planet.. a lot of people just focus on one of these.. and we can’t tell them they’re not balanced.. but can say.. want to come build something today
liminal village et al
needs to be a deeper unconditional than that.. ie: the thing we’ve not yet tried/seen: the unconditional part of left to own devices ness
[‘in an undisturbed ecosystem ..the individual left to its own devices.. serves the whole’ –dana meadows]
there’s a legit use of tech (nonjudgmental exponential labeling) to facil the seeming chaos of a global detox leap/dance
ie: imagine if we listen to the itch-in-8b-souls 1st thing everyday & use that data to connect us for whatever for a year.. a legit sabbatical ish transition
we did this on the ground ness with laptop in closet of year 2 – the be you house
23 min – started w amazing tech.. whiteboard w stickers
prototyping the app at a bookstore et al.. and in be you house..
25 min – this thing/bot is not opinionated in where it is.. gives you power tools for community.. credit system, shopping needs, et al.. and it relates to other communities
huge.. but way deeper .. and why we need tech w/o judgment
27 min – creates this visibility that is really key for establishing the trust
to me.. if ‘establishing trust’ .. still a cancerous distraction.. everyone needs to be legit free (unconditional) from the get go.. we found.. even an assumed raised eyebrow can compromise/distract/kill
28 min – shows how it works.. ie: he writes we need to clean up – shows picture of mess on table.. task: make order on commons table.. you click on it.. it gets updated w my name on it.. if i appreciate it but am not participating.. so appreciate signal is sent to who does it
oh my man.. cancerous distraction.. same song.. ooof
30 min – so when task is completed.. there is rea accounting recorded.. just happens behind the scenes
doesn’t matter if behind or in front.. still compromising us.. ie: joseph reward law.. accountable ness.. any form of m\a\p
31 min – realize tp is empty.. add it and everyone sees it.. someone goes to store.. et al.. then when go there.. we’re like an organism storming the store.. one person has credit card.. to do community shopping divided by whole community.. also combined with yesterday i had a beer with brian and he paid.. w/o having to discuss.. that’s what this can do for us.. it can help us be human.. instead of having to look at list of bills et al
that’s still being whales
33 min – but was too much .. so took that signal out of telegram.. and created what people are used to.. looks like a board with post its.. (to be more user friendly for task ness).. now don’t have to even type.. lower what humans have to do
34 min – so in am when wake up.. don’t hvae to even go check in .. and can go to screen to see what needs to happen.. flip thru on phone the tasks and decide what to join/do
that’s not how a day for legit free people needs to be.. we need a nother way.. a nother way book et al.. otherwise still maté trump law et al.. and still not brown belonging law et al.. and so.. still disturbing the dance
big time – mostly because we think we’re doing it better/kinder/more-inclusivley/easier..
need most/1st tech to ie: listen to the itch-in-8b-souls 1st thing everyday & use that data to connect us
35 min – keep doing this till the tasks are over.. then federate to diff houses/regions
will never be ‘over’ until we org around legit needs
36 min – so i created also commons (?) that had that network
40 min – a holon is a whole and a part.. so that’s what we’re calling the tech.. to create composable community at diff scales.. all the way to the fractal.. where the single unit is the trust unit.. build bigger/bigger network trust by combining multiple bubbles of trust.. if a bubble starts to act out.. you cut the bubble.. so you fork
oh my.. trust has to be unconditional from the get go.. not from any form of m\a\p
41 min – spooning means we align but preserve id.. how do we form our common.. stack of spoons.. with potential to fork..
46 min – community continually invaded by new people that show up.. so tech as crutches till you can walk w/o
47 min – today tech means you broke and so you use it forever.. here we just use it when needed.. a magical whiteboard.. a communication tool.. let’s others join and now where to jump in
48 min – important that you are very aware of the cost.. if turning up a credit system.. changing shape of community.. so need to create a disclaimer.. ie: accounting by tech, human makes meaning
49 min – guy in audience.. jeff? – issue w digital tech same as issue w all of capitalism. . it’s ours to build so we can build it w/o these attention hooks
50 min – (back to r): technology as something we need in the community so we build it as a tool.. not a tool that is then going to enslave us
since that day no tool has not been enslaving us.. won’t be free till we use tech as it could be
lady in audience: we need a transition from now to the actual practice
to me.. only way for that: a sabbatical ish transition – because has detox embed in it.. and this is why and what we need tech w/o judgment for
otherwise still perpetuating same song.. no matter how much we think we need that tool.. and now matter how much we think we are not enslaved by it
51 min – (back to r): as i said the perfect community there is no accounting there is communication
sorry.. but everything you’ve described so far i would label as a form of m\a\p
it’s a scaling up of the trust.. for instance we’re working together.. how do we split it.. tracking the hours and split.. or.. or.. ones cooked most get money.. we need to be able to choose value system of holon
ooof all forms of m\a\p
and again.. why we need tech w/o judgment.. to do the thing we can’t seem to do – trust each other – pearson unconditional law et al
52 min – outcome.. we keep track of.. always a moment when you need to use mutual credit or money.. if you use money it means you don’t have any trust at all.. you can choose at which point you’re going to relate
rather.. if any form of m\a\p.. don’t have any trust at all.. trust can’t be partial.. then it’s actually judgment.. good/bad.. doesn’t matter
53 min – to point of saying.. we don’t have to use money/accounting inside our trust environ.. and everybody is contributing.. *and if something feels unfair we’re going to talk about it.. there’s not a current tech that’s going to fix that.. **this tech can say hey.. you said you would do this for 10 days and you didn’t do it.. i feel the fear of panoptican.. but actually bringing visibility so we can talk about things.. t
**oh my.. that’s called accounting.. measuring.. people telling other people what to do.. aka: all the forms of m\a\p.. still panopticon ness.. just seems nicer
*there is a tech that could ‘fix’ that.. by not going there (to any form of m\a\p) in the first place.. this is huge and why we need tech w/o judgment
ie: tech as nonjudgmental expo labeling.. to facil the seeming chaos of a global detox leap/dance
**oh my.. that’s called accounting.. measuring.. people telling other people what to do.. aka: all the forms of m\a\p.. still panopticon ness.. just seems nicer
de saint-exupéry essential law et al
54 min – so we can decide what our values are.. this planting a tree.. we can decide how many points that is worth
how can you not see that as accounting ness?
1:03 – all this tech allows you to decide everything.. nothing imposed.. it just keeps giving this spaceship you can fly anywhere and connect.. the infra for communication.. you decide.. so use it in income generating and resource sharing commons.. if outside.. going to take income .. if inside.. share resources (as requirement to come in).. so can have social agreement to be in or out
oi.. if still deciding.. (not to mention the in-out ness) still imposed.. still finite set of choices of decision making unmooring us.. keeping us from us
how we gather in a space is huge.. need to try spaces of permission where people have nothing to prove to facil curiosity/itch over decision making..
1:13 – michel: if i have to go thru board w post its and very complicated systems.. i can’t.. i’m already 1/2 discouraged.. just tell me what to do.. like old style communities.. hierarchy has a competitive advantage because it reduces the transaction cost
1:14 – r: so like.. you do this/that.. instead of it being a boss telling you.. you’ve agreed.. only thing you need to do is open phone on one page and see.. oh.. that’s what i need to do.. you choose where you want to play.. and we accept that everybody is contributing in own way.. but then when money comes.. we have to decide to split to all
oh my
1:26 – not about being human but about what your needs are.. thru that layer of support we could.. my real objective is to just be human.. now we’re overwhelmed w so much communication et al.. so this tech objective is to liberate humans from tech..
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be you. 