sand talk

sand talk

(2020) by Tyson Yunkaporta via jordan fb share:

Highest recommendation. More fundamental than Tainter or Baudrillard.

Tyson Yunkaporta is an academic, an arts critic, and a researcher who is a member of the Apalech Clan in far north Queensland. He carves traditional tools and weapons and also works as a senior lecturer in Indigenous Knowledges at Deakin University in Melbourne. He lives in Melbourne.

1 min video on book: []

we are all refugees severed from the land.. disconnected from genius that comes from being in symbiotic relationship w it.. not a report on indigenous knowledge.. but an examination of global systems from an indigenous perspective..  sand talk is my contribution to a discussion we desperately need to have



sand talk – stories written in the sand


australian porcupines are smart enough for complex reasoning and decision making.. 50% of brain used for hardest kinds of thinking.. in humans.. not eve 30%..

i don’t know why stephen hawking and others have worried about super intelligent beings form other planets coming there and using their advance knowledge to do to the world what industrial civilization has already done.. beings of higher intelligence are already here, always have been.. they just haven’t used their intelligence to destroy anything yet.. maybe they will, if they tire of the incompetence of domesticated humans


most of us have been displaced form those cultures of origin, a global diaspora of refugees severed not only form land but from the sheer genius that comes from belonging in symbiotic relation t  it..

whales in sea world.. et al


if you don’t move w the land, the land will movie you.. there is nothing permanent about settlements and the civilization that spawn them..

the stories that define our thinking today describe an eternal battle between good and evil springing form an originating act of sin

that was trying to gain knowledge of good and evil..

perhaps.. says something about letting go of judge\ment (other-ing).. and realize our interconnectedness.. i know you ness


recent traditions have emerged that break down creation systems like a virus.. infecting complex patterns w artificial simplicity, exercising a civilizing control over what some see as chaos.. the sumeriansn started it.. romans perfected it.. anglosphere inherited it.. the world is now mired in it

carhart harris entropy law.. et al

the war between good and evil is in reality an imposition of stupidity and simplicity over wisdom and complexity

original sin..

we need to create conditions to get back to enough ness

a collection of pages filled w marks representing speech sounds is a complicated way of communicating, particularly when you want to convey a practical sense of the pattern of creation that might shed light on current crises the world is facing.. complicated, not complex.. two very diff things.. viewing world thru lens of simplicity always seems to make things more complicated but simultaneously less complex..

writing speech sound symbols for stranger to read makes things even more complicated.. that is exacerbated when the audience is preoccupied w notions of authenticity and the writer’s standing as a member of a cultural minority that has lost the right to define itself.. the ability to write fluently in the language of the occupying power seems to contradict an indigenous authors’ membership in a community that is not supposed to be able to write about itself at all.. so at this point i will need to explain who i am and how i came to e writing this

literacy and numeracy both elements of colonialism/control/enclosure.. we need to calculate differently and stop measuring things

we need a means to undo our hierarchical listening ie: 2 convers as infra


in my travels i saw that it was our ways, not our things, that grounded/sustained us


i know who i am, where i belong, and what i call myself., and it is enough.. when i’m away rom my community, though, there are people who want to sort me into unfamiliar categories, and i often don’t get to decide what to call myself..

marsh label law et al


the indigenous ‘self’ that has been designed by outsiders to render programs of self determination safe does not reflect our reality..  we all once had multiple languages and affiliations ..

idio-jargon ness.. and only label.. daily curiosity


our knowledge is only valued if it is fossilized..

our knowledge endures because everybody carries a part of it.. no matter how fragmentary

yeah.. let’s go that deep.. what’s already on each heart..? let’s org around that

if you want to see the pattern of creation, you talk to everybody and listen carefully

listen & connect to undo our hierarchical listening ie: 2 convers as infra


my table of contents is visual and it looks like this

resonating with a be you book and a story about people grokking what matters


we rarely see global sustainability issues addressed using indigenous perspective and thought processes. we don’t see econometrics models being designed using indigenous pattern thinking..  always about the what never about the how..

i want to reverse that phenom.. i want to use indigenous patterning thinking process to critique contemp systems

the real knowledge will keep moving in lands/peoples ..and i’ll move on with.. you’ll move on too..

this book is just a translation of a fragment of a shadow, frozen in time.. i make no claims to absolute truth or authority..  things may seem unstructured.. i allow the logic to follow the complex patterns i’m trying to describe, which don’t reflect the usual cause and effect relations of print based thought..

this will be a challenge because english inevitably places settler worldviews at the center of every concept, obscuring true understanding..


ie: explaining aboriginal notions of time is an exercise in futility as you can only describe it as ‘nonlinear’ in english, which immediately slams a big line right across your synapses.. you don’t register the ‘non’ only the ‘linear’: that is the way you process that word, the shape it takes in our mind. worst of all it’s only describing the concept by saying what it is not, rather than what it is..

we don’t have a word for nonlinear in our languages because nobody would consider traveling, thinking, or talking in a straight line in the first place.. the winding path is just how a path is, and therefore it needs no name.. 


i write to provoke thought rather than rep fact, in a kind of dialogical and reflective process w the reader.. for this i often use the dual first person.. it is a common pronoun in indigenous languages but not present in english; that’s why i translate it as ‘us-two’.. 

solutions to complex problems take many dissimilar minds and points of view to design, so we have to do that together, linking up w as many other us-twos as we can to form networks of dynamic interactions

augmenting interconnectedness via  convers as infra

the hop is this: that from this liminal pov us-two might be able to see some things that have been missed.. it worked for einstein.. who seldom set foot in a lab but simply said, ‘if this, then this, then this’.. creating simulations in a dreaming space to produce proofs and solutions of startling complexity and accuracy.. in this space, even what he thought of as his greatest mistake later turned out to be his greatest discovery..

bachelard oikos law – econ as space to dream

ie: cure ios city

so question is.. who are indigenous (that can shed light)

has to be all of us.. or it won’t work

holmgren indigenous law et al


some people are just idiots.. everybody.. from time to time.. some deep place inside that whispers ‘you are special.. you are greater than other people/things..’ this behavior needs massive checks and balances to contain the damage it can do

i’m thinking the behavior comes from all the checks and balances..

we need to let go of any form of measuring/accounting


in our traditional systems of law.. punishment is harsh/swift, but afterward there is no criminal record.. no grudge

yeah.. i don’t think punishment helps.. imagining something more like your own song ness

in this way.. people won’t.. avoid punishment.. can look forward to clean slate..

yeah.. i don’t think so


keepers of knowledge see him behaving in his way and know he is ready to be responsible for additional knowledge.. so they pass on story to him.. this is how indigenous knowledge works


either this guy is off.. or indigenous knowledge is off..

how is that any diff from this whole section on people thinking they’re better than others.. ie: who are the knowledge keepers.. ? what knowledge..? not to mention.. the knowledge moment ie was of the guy reciting 100 digits of pi


these are global stories and systems of knowledge that must have once been common to all people

yeah.. i think there is something in common.. already (and still) in each heart.. we just need to undo our hierarchical listening to self/others/nature.. so we can hear/see it..

ie: 2 convers as infra


hopefully i have no given you some ideas on what indigenous knowledge is , which indigenous people have it, and what it might be used for.. in case you missed them, the answers are everything, all of us, and anything..

yeah.. i missed (mis heard?) that


an indigenous person is a member of a community retaining memories of life lived sustainably on a land base as part of that land base..

member ness is unsettling..

makes me think we aren’t going deep enough.. community needs to be all of us.. et al

indigenous knowledge is any application of those memories as living knowledge to improve present/future circumstance

again.. not sure that’s deep enough.. going of circumstantial memories..? rather than something already on each heart?


first law: nothing is created or destroyed; it just moves and changes..  nothing can be held, accumulated, stored..


perhaps australia and other countries could begin depression proofing its econ by introducing extended family property ownership laws and incentives..  this might also ease the welfare burden and decrease unemployment


listen deeper.. let go of money/property/et-al


civilizations are cultures that creates cities, communities that consume everything around them and then themselves..

any form of measuring/accounting does that too


the most remarkable thing about western civ is its ability to absorb and object/idea, alter it, sanitize it, rebrand it, and market it..

the people may rise up against tyrants in the name of liberty, shattering the halls/towers of the powerful, but then the ruling systems will simply embrace the idea of freedom, tweak it a little and continue w business as usual..

everywhere you go there will be the same institutions, anthems and flags..  recognizable schools, banks, hospitals, govt bodies, and courts.. in aboriginal australia.. we are terrifyingly close to joining this recent madness.. we have hospital like and school like community led institutions.. and we have a flag.. in our defense, we need to comply w these things to ensure our right to exist..

yeah.. we need to quit opting in

humanity needs a leap.. to get back/to simultaneous spontaneity ..  simultaneous fittingness.. everyone in sync.. no more ‘we need to comply’ ness..


this intensely interrelated process w/in a totemic group o f3 entities – bush, ant, and butterfly – would be impossible for a single human mind to design.. how do these symbiotic dances develop, when the cause and effect relations are so interdependent and complex that there is no way to reverse engineer the process by which the system came to be? this is precisely the kind of process we need to understand and engage w to create sustainable responses to the catastrophes we are facing

ie: 2 convers as infra

but rather than responses.. listening deeper


as i always say, if you want to find the next gen of great thinkers, look in the detention room of any public school

crazywise et al


contemp science is beginning to understand this way of knowing thru chaos theory, complexity theory, network theory, and fractal geometry.. it is becoming clear that complex systems are adaptive, self organizing and patterned w a logic that can be discerned and used for trend analysis and predictive techs..

? not predictive

second wave automation, ai, and blockchain techs seek to harness this complexity.. but it is a complexity that cannot function thru external design and control

like people.. like anything alive.. organism as fractal et al

these patterns cannot be programmed but must emerge w/in the system organically – a process that is called ‘random’ in western worldviews but is in fact following the patters of creation

carhart harris entropy law et al.. let go of order.. prediction.. pattern..


blockchain cannot be designed externally as a closed system, or it will stagnate.. it must comprise individual nodes that remain autonomous, operating freely in a self organizing system of users.. the internet also developed in this way..  the kinds of digital innovation that are currently disrupting top down global econ and social structure are built on the reality of complex, self organizing systems rather than the illusion of centralized control

yeah.. but they are still machines.. ie: need input.. they will never operate as freely as self organizing humans.. perhaps closest we can get is to use tech for what it can do diff than us.. ie: no judgment.. perhaps we can have tech w/o judgment ie: tech as it could be

this has implications for the management of all systems.. particularly social control systems

yeah.. if you’re thinking you’re managing.. won’t be anything new/diff.. won’t be implications.. just replications of the ongoing colonialism/control/enclosure.. we have been at for years.. we need to calculate differently and stop measuring things


this is the perspective you need to be a custodian rather than an owner of lands/communities/knowledge.. it demands the relinquishing of artificial power and control.. immersion in the astounding patterns of creation that only emerge thru the free movement of all agents and elements w/in a system.. this impacts the way we are managed and governed

rather.. it means we aren’t governed/managed

‘in undisturbed ecosystems ..the average individual, species, or population, left to its own devices, behaves in ways that serve and stabilize the whole..’ –Dana Meadows

healthy interventions can only be made by free agents w/in a complex system.. referred to in chaos theory as ‘strange attractors’.. could you be a strange attractor w/in your institution

thinking no.. because unless we get out of the institution..we’re not legit free.. we’re just like whales in sea world

it is a risky endeavor in a culture that attaches negative meanings to words like ‘chaos’ and ‘anarchy’ equating them w disorder and ruin..

we need more disorder (ch harris entropy law)

but chaos in reality has a structure that produces innovation and ‘anarchy’ simply means ‘no boss’.. could it be possible to have structure w/o bosses?

2 convers as infra

in my community there is a phrase: ‘nobody boss for me’.. yet at same time, each person is bound w/in complex patterns of relatedness and communal obligation

so .. obligation as boss.. huge red flag man

not legit free.. so.. the dance won’t dance


most academic tell me that they are unable to incorporate indigenous knowledge into the academy because their students are not smart enough to understand it

if thinking in terms of ie: students, academy, points of entry.. i don’t think that’s indigenous


if the world ever experiments w an actual free market rather than an oligopoly, this would be the perfect system to facil sustainable interactions..

yeah.. i don’t think so.. just some of the same cancer we’re living with now

let go..

let’s just facil daily curiosity  ie: cure ios city


narcissism ins’t incurable though.. survivors of this plague emerge without any memory of who they really are, needing support to begin again and relearn the nature of their existence, their purpose for being here.. they are like children, and leaving them to their own devices at this stage is not advisable..

wow.. dang.. thinking we need to training people (rather than set them free to listen to their own heart) is a

huge red flag.. we’re doing it wrong

entire cultures/populations recovering from this plague have been left like orphan children w no memories of who they are, longing for a pattern they know is there but can’t see

there’s no pattern.. thinking there’s a pattern is a result/cancer of supposed to’s.. of school/work.. patterns are for whales in sea world..

all people need are the conditions to allow them to listen deeper.. to know what enough is.. and to know that they are enough

they grow up eventually, but it takes a long time if they have no assistance

it’s fake if they have assistance..

notion of ‘growing up’ is poisonous

let go

adolescent cultures always ask same 3 questions: why are we here (custodians).. how should we live (4 protocols).. what will happen when we die (up next)



talking about math classes while talking about spirits – turning dances into equations and equations into dances

why math class.. if indigenous..? – too much focus on knowledge/intellect ness..

let go


the most intelligent part of your body is actually separate form your central nervous system.. your guy has its own independent nervous system that is still a mystery to modern science..  this is the seat of your big spirit.. your higher intelligence

if we were truly listening to our guys.. it would be asking .. why were you in a math class.. and why all the fuss about intellect ness et al

in aboriginal world.. the energy of the gut must be kept clear and constantly moving thru mental, spiritual and physical cultural activity, or it will become stagnant and make a person sick


although gut not directly connected to brain.. there must be interaction between these two systems in same way there must be interaction between the physical and spiritual worlds.. in order to maintain the whole system in a healthy balance.. interaction can’t happen mechanically thru purely bio function.. so must be done thru cultural practice.. done by constantly making meaning the world around us and within.. transferring knowledge form one domain to another.. making connections between things that would otherwise remain unconnected.. using metaphors that are nonliteral and often seemingly irrational.. this gives rise to both complexity and clarity..

embodiment et al

paradoxically, the more complex the meaning making is the clearer your thinking will be and the more likely you will be to remember the knowledge..  (then went into ie of two test groups on memorization)

oi oi oi

more ie’s from visiting schools

whales in sea world

whales in sea world

whales in sea world


on yarning (communicating) .. sitting in circle .. sans talking stick.. active listening..  the importance of narrative to memory

like too much intellect ness.. also.. too much memory ness


on prussians.. spending 1000s of years trying to replicate control they were under w romans.. by 18th prussia one of greatest powers in europe.. due to fact had larger military force than anyone else.. the prussian system was one of total control.. which successfully managed to coerce the population in to complete submission to the will of the govt..


the govt decided that if it could force people to remain children for  few extra years, it could retard social, emotional and intellectual development and control them more easily.. this was the point in history when ‘adolescence’ was invented.. a method of slowing the transition from childhood to adulthood.. so that it would take years rather than ..for ie.. the months it takes in indigenous rites of passaged..

this delayed transition, intended to create a permanent state of childlike compliance in adults, was developed from farming techniques used to break horses and to domesticate animals..  domesticating – as mutations of wild species into an infantilized form w a smaller brain and inability to adapt or solve problems..

to domesticate an animal in the say you must: 1\ separate young from parents in daylight hours  2\ confine them in an enclosed space w limited stimulation or access to natural habitat  3\ use rewards and punishment to force them to comply w purposeless tasks..

prussians created a system using same techniques to manufacture adolescence and thus domesticate their people..


the system they invented in the early 19th cent to administer this change was public ed:the radical innovation of universal primary schooling, followed by streaming into trade, professional and leadership ed.. arbitrated by a rigorous examination system.. (on top of the usual considerations of money and class).. 90% of prussian students attended the volkschule, where they learned a simple versions of history, religion, manners and obedience and were drilled endlessly in basic lit and numeracy.. discipline was paramount; boredom was weaponized and deployed to lobotomize the population

wow.. worth the book there – i knew about prussian ed ness.. but not that deep.. although not fitting with book subtitle.. ie: this is just a look back.. not an alt way to live.. (costello screen service law et al).. and the ways he’s describing to live.. don’t seem like an alt.. seems even his voice/head is too embedded/intoxicated in where we’re at.. to get to the root of the problem

literacy and numeracy both elements of colonialism/control/enclosure.. we need to calculate differently and stop measuring things et al


prussians began to make plans to spread the institution of schooling as a tool for social control thru out the world.. as it facilitated the kind of uniformity and compliance that was needed to make the model of nationhood world.. the us could testify to the effectiveness of prussian ed as a tool for domination and powers, as american educators had been making pilgrimages to germany for more than half a century..  excitingly, test schools across america proved that the artificially induced phenom of adolescences was achievable outside of prussia..

adolescence et al

motto was work sets you free.. a slogan that the nazis adopted and later placed above the gates of concentration camps..

now as ever, the creation of a workforce to sere the  national econ is the openly stated main goal of public ed.. and , as ever, the inmates of this system are told that their enthusiastic compliance w forced labor will be in their best interests at some future point..

germany’s compulsory ed system express six outcomes in its original syllabus documents: 1\ obedient soldiers 2\ obedient workers 3\ well subordinated civil servants 4\ citizens who though alike  6\ national uniformity in though, word, ,and deed..


us involved much earlier.. benjamin franklin advocating the prussian system..

all around world.. new system of ed, nationalism, finance, corporatism and social control were informed by fascist ideas and theories from germany and the us.. encouraging the extermination of indigenous people and minorities..

when smoke cleared, lands and power and blame were redistributed unevenly among the survivors, and a new world emerged with new stories providing a sanitized history of good triumphing over evil..


the structural racism installed thru prussian style schooling and the eugenics movement would not be discarded, merely rebranded.. later, following long civil rights struggles and campaigns for social justice, racial inferiority renamed ‘cultural difference’.. racial integration renamed ‘reconciliation’ .. in the colonies assimilation was relaunched as ‘closing the gap’.. the language became more politically correct, but the globalizing goals of cultural uniformity, econ compliance and homogenized id’s remained the same..

in my crackpot version of this history, public schooling plays a principal role in the story of transition from one age to the next..  i hope this marginal perspective is far enough ‘out of the box’ to provoke some questions regarding the sustainability of the global systems that shape our minds and lives..

ie: cure ios city

what form of knowledge transmission (aka ed) need to take during this transition..  us-two may also tentatively wonder whether our minds are not to domesticated and shriveled even to contemplate these questions effectively

talking voice ness here.. and how we need to undo our hierarchical listening

a good way to begin might be to listen to as many divergent version of this history as possible.. form many points of view.. most important.. i have learned from children.. the inmates of the ed system

better yet.. let go of analyzing history.. (because most won’t get to their deeper/legit voice.. we need to get out of ea world/history for that) and ust focus on .. listen to.. 8b daily curiosities


small children and the qualities of an undomesticated mind.. wild and unschooled.. teeming w innate knowledge processes..  they play w absolute dedication and fierce concentration.. they learn languages perfectly.. (to limits of their role models) w/o explicit instruction and at a phenom rate..  this explosive period of learning ends, in industrialize communities, around age 8, when highly focused attention of play and learning is schooled out of the child and redirected into less stimulating ed activity

so .. let’s stop that.. let’s set up  a nother way to live (to spend our days) .. and let’s embed in that infra .. a detox.. for all who have been schooled/manufactured/conformed.. for all of us who are already like whales in sea world

perhaps, on some level, we suspect the source of a child’s genius lies not only in the mechanics and chemistry of the brain but in something far more powerful and difficult to explain.. perhaps these biological neural functions are not the source of mental activity, but a response to thoughts originating elsewhere..  could it be that we fear the true source and potential of our minds.. the raw power of our ancestors’ cognition that we see reflected in the eyes of our children

deeper than that (*cognition from ancestors).. far more powerful and difficult to explain than that.. esp if trying to explain it to whales in sea world.. which includes ancestors

*cognition: the mental action or process of acquiring knowledge and understanding through thought, experience, and the senses.. a result of this; a perception, sensation, notion, or intuition.

what we see.. if we look/listen deep enough.. in eyes of our children.. is the ‘cognition’ (if you like).. that is already in them.. that is not yet scrambled et al..


some aspects of consciousness, knowledge, and knowledge transmission have not been explained or proven scientifically and are therefore avoided in cognitive science. i’m calling these aspects ‘extra cognitive’ for what of a better word.. they include the messages that land and ancestors bring to us.. a bird or animal behaving strangely, a sudden wind gust, a coincidence that highlights a deep meaning or revelation, a burst of inspiration.. these are the things that make knowledge processes scared and magical

yeah.. i don’t know.. that’s sounds more like responses/interpretations – (with too much focus on knowledge).. rather than the person experiencing/being/seeing for themself.. which is what is greatly missing.. ie: the energy of 8b alive people

even people committed to rational/analytical ways of thinking and being will still refer to ‘gut instinct’ or will find that a complex problem is better understood if a person ‘sleeps on it’

what we need.. art (by day/light) and sleep (by night/dark) as re\set.. to fittingness/undisturbed ecosystem.. that will naturally having us dancing with others.. but if we focus on that first (ie: listen to ancestors et al) we’ll miss the messages (our entire ecosystem needs) that are only in us..


while it may be proven that internal motivation is more productive than external pressure, the uncertain and unsettling sources of this inner power are threatening to hierarchies, so intrinsic control methods of org are generally ignored in both ed and the work place

so many ideas/words.. spot on.. but embedded in ‘productive.. in ed and the work place’ et al..

productivity, ed, work, .. all red flags..

we are slaves to a work ethic that is unnatural and unnecessary

so.. let’s let go.. rather than tweaking (ie: ed, work, productivity)

us-two, we still endure longer work hours than our roles require today, for reasons of social control rather than productivity.. it’s difficult to find the mental space to question systems of power when we’re working 8 hrs.. et al.. somewhere in there we also need to find time to study and retrain..

it’s difficult to find the mental space when thinking about productivity/training.. and also.. if we keep spending time on questioning systems of power

what we need is a legit other way to live.. that isn’t based on response/defense.. but rather on cure ios city


the job is the unquestioned goal for all free citizens of the world  the ultimate public good. it is the clearly stated exist goal of all ed and the only sanctioned reason for acquiring knowledge.. but if we think about ti for a moment jobs are not what we want..

neither is knowledge

we want shelter, food strong relationships, a livable habitat, stimulating learning activity, and time to perform valued tasks in which we excel

yeah.. that’s not deep enough.. that’s not the deeper want.. which.. if we focus on.. would take care of all the rest..

ie: if we focus on (org around) maté basic needs.. we’d be creating the conditions for people to know what enough is.. to know what they really want/need


john zerzan argues that civilization oppress people thru scarcity paradigms while indigenous communities have free societies based on paradigms of abundance.. he says we need to reform civilization by drawing on the knowledge and values of indigenous societies

yeah.. again.. i think we all need the indigenous ness.. that is already inside each one of us.. or the dance won’t dance


we do’t lose memories.. just access to them.. you have to be connected daily to intuitive or extra cognitive ways of thinking and being if you want to utilize this knowledge..

imagine if we listened to 8b daily curiosities  ie: cure ios city

2 convers as infra


i have previously talked about cultures losing collective memory and having to struggle for 1000s of years to gain again.. unless they have assistance.. but that assistance does not take the form of somebody passing on cultural content and ecological wisdom.. the assistance i’m talking about comes form sharing patterns of knowledge and ways of thinking that will help trigger the ancestral knowledge hidden in side.. the assistance people need is not in learning about aboriginal knowledge but in remembering their own

yeah that.. but ‘sharing patterns of knowledge and ways of thinking’ is just like ‘somebody passing on cultural content and ecological wisdom’.. we have to let go of thinking we have to train people..

we just need to create the conditions.. where people have time/space to listen (deep enough) to what’s already inside them..


i’m a stickler for grammar and punctuation.. and misplaced apostrophes drive me nuts.. apostrophes are importan because in this language they tell us who thing sand people belong do you know who you belong to if you can’t get the language protocols for belonging right?


brown belonging lawthe opposite of belonging.. is fitting in.. true belonging doesn’t require you to change who you are.. it requires you to be who you are.. and that’s vulnerable.. –Brené Brown

if we have to train.. learn language protocols.. in order to belong..? really?

language as control/enclosure et al

let’s try idio-jargon


if the people responsible for that sign (strickly no running) are able to thrive enough in the marketplace to buy motels.. while having such shocking spelling skills, surely econ success must be dependent on factors other than reading and writing and counting.. whatever it is, that’s the secret we need to be teaching indigenous students if we really want to start closing the gap

wow.. sounds like your focus is success in marketplace.. and sounds like you think some people are deficient and need training.. ie: ‘students’ ‘gap’ ‘teaching’

literacy and numeracy both elements of colonialism/control/enclosure.. we need to calculate differently and stop measuring things.. stop training.. conforming.. et al


modern neural science has been able to map the way print literacy rewires the human brain.. it is a fairly catastrophic process.. rearranging neural networks and connections between diff area of brain in ways that are inefficient at best and highly abnormal at worst..

not yet scrambled ness

efficiency doesn’t sound like indigenous ness.. a by product perhaps.. but not a goal.. not even something you’d talk about

the only sustainable way to store data long term is w/in relationships – deep connections between generations .. when knowledge is patterned w/in these forces of connection .. it is sustainable over deep time

testart storage law et al

i think knowledge is the wrong focus.. and i think storing things is deadening

‘in undisturbed ecosystems ..the average individual, species, or population, left to its own devices, behaves in ways that serve and stabilize the whole..’ –Dana Meadows


understanding biological networks appropriately means finding a way to belong personally to that system

yeah.. i don’t think it works that way.. we just belong.. and what the system needs most (to dance) is for us to be us

‘in undisturbed ecosystems ..the average individual, species, or population, left to its own devices, behaves in ways that serve and stabilize the whole..’ –Dana Meadows

you’re throwing in more training here.. let go


kelly: ‘our domestic violence stats are higher no because we are inherently or culturally more violent. it is because we are forced to live w/i na system that perpetuates violence, creating a sense of intergenerational hopelessness’..

that’s all of us

we need a new os

ie: cure ios city – to undo our hierarchical listening


creation started with a big ban, not a big hug: violence is part of the pattern

oh my..

the damage of violence is minimized when it is distributed throughout a system rather than centralized into the hand so fa few powerful people and their minions.. most of southern hemisphere is receiving that outsource violence to supply what you need for .. poor zoned into the ghettos are taking those blows for you.. et al.. your notions of peaceful settlement and development are delusions peppered w bullet holes and spears

every organism in existence does violence and benefits from it in reciprocal relationships..

?.. recip relationships are violence..


violence exists and must be carefully structure w/in rituals

let’s try this: gershenfeld something else law

domesticated beings are stripped of this reality and become passive recipients of violence..  what would it mean to reverse this domesticated state? it would take centuries to transition form human domestication and recover our exceptional physical and mental powers as a custodial species..

yeah.. with the bandaids we keep using.. maybe not even in centuries.. but i don’t think that’s true.. if we first.. get to the roots of healing.. almaas holes law et al

i often wonder what men and women would transform into outside of captivity..t

yeah that.. let’s wonder (and experiment with) about that.. we have no idea about that.. because all our data/history/research is based on whales in sea world

captivity: any form of measuring/accounting


there is no such thing as safety in aboriginal views.. safety provided by an invisible hierarchy is complete anathema to our way of being.. there is not agency in safety.. which places a person in a passive role.. at the mercy of authorities who may or may not intervene when needed.. so we have no word for safety or risk.. however, we have plenty of words for protection.. look out for self.. look out for people around you..

safety addiction et al

let’s try this: gershenfeld something else law

this is such a wonder way to live.. knowing you have power to defend yourself and the ones you love, while also being intensely aware that at any give moment there are dozens of people watching your back.. it is a useful algo that could be applied to risk management in the financial system


so.. be free people.. but enslaved to money.. ??

wilson money law et al


we could apply the same technique to remembering some of the other key ideas we have been yarning about in this book.. the most important one is the set of protocols for agents in a sustainable complex system..

yeah.. i don’t think we need protocols.. (maybe an infrato detox us..  get us out of sea world).. but now you’re adding a technique and remembering the stuff in this book.. ?

we need to let go of the idea that we need to train people.. if we listen deeper.. if we focus on a deeper needs.. no training is necessary.. it’s already in us to do what we need to do..


respect (setting rules/boundaries), connect (relationships and routines of exchange that are equal), reflect (thinking as part of the group.. shared knowledge to inform what you will do), direct (acting on shared knowledge in ways that are negotiated by all)


red flags: boundaries/rules; equal exchange routines; shared knowledge to inform what you do.. (voluntary compliance) et al; negotiated ness (public consensus always oppresses someone(s))


my hope is that one day everybody can find a place under the law of the land where they live..

my hope is that everybody can find peace  – sans laws


so .. Tyson Yunkaporta.. sorry to say i feel like sand talk is among the most frustrating books.. was high recommend by ‘game b’ ers.. so was excited they were looking to indigenous ness.. but didn’t seem indigenous to me.. too much focus on knowledge and training (aka: people not being enough) ..

we won’t ‘save the world’ (subtitle) if we don’t org around the deeper needs/desires.. that 8b of us already have in us.. which ty even writes about.. the ‘already in us ness’.. but then had steps to getting to there.. ie: from ancestors.. learning techniques for remembering.. et al.. rather than creating conditions for us to see ‘what men and women would transform into outside of captivity’ (p 199) – we need to get us out of sea world first – otherwise.. we have no idea..


holmgren indigenous law


indigenous peoples