(2017) by Cory Doctorow
Cory Doctorow (@doctorow) tweeted at 7:16 AM – 15 Mar 2017 :
268 words on Party Discipline, a WALKAWAY story #dailywords (6307 words total) (http://twitter.com/doctorow/status/842001585987178496?s=17)
3 words: a nother way
do able social fiction: a nother way book
There’s always been a gambling madness in the human spirit, a kind of perverse, instinctive itchiness that suddenly makes us willing to court disaster, simply on the off-chance of altering the mundane or miserable parameters of our daily lives.
If we could transform some of that madness into a madness of optimism and creativity, rather than boredom, rage, and despair, that could only be a good thing.
Tor Books (@torbooks) tweeted at 7:36 AM – 26 Apr 2017 :
Start reading @doctorow’s new novel Walkaway: an epic tale of revolution, love, post-scarcity, and the end of death https://t.co/Mk7u1mBlEb(http://twitter.com/torbooks/status/857226823918170112?s=17)
Watch Edward @Snowden and Cory @doctorow imagine our hopeful, dystopian future https://t.co/87Pgq3GTW3
Original Tweet: https://twitter.com/FreedomofPress/status/861627302962110464
21 min – one reading of walkaway.. an attempt to figure out how to respond to a world where a system that’s gone to far to be reformed thru traditional means – Ed
27 min – a strong theme of econ – but opp of Ayn Rand – that only way is to exchange.. Ed
29 min – market capitalism.. produces thru competition.. enormous gains in productivity.. that are to the great benefit of the long human project.. how to elevate every peasant to live like a lord
33 min – walkaway – sci trick of cleaving tech system from econ/social- what would it be like if we had the productivity of the assembly line and the working style of the craftsman.. engineer beyond boundary of firm and into world – Cory
44 min – to bank something that’s abundant when it’s abundant and then get it to somewhere scarce when it’s scarce.. – Cory
45 min – country based on searching for less order and more freedom – Ed
58 min – on it being hard to argue with people who are closest to you.. enormous sorrow.. these people i respect so dearly so angry – Cory
59 min – ed in
1:01 – how do you change people’s minds – Paul arguing – good will and willingness to spend the time – Cory
1:03 – diff between relationship never having a fight and one where all diff come to mutual understanding – Cory
1:04 – most frustrating thing in argument.. that other not only disagrees w you but also with something you’re not saying – Cory
1:05 – my possession of the (piece of art) is you not having it – hard to imagine how we could overcome – Cory
they just go where the wind blows them.. because they know wherever the wind takes them there’ll be someone they can have an enjoyable time with.. and that’s really why they’re in the sky .. there’s nowhere they need to go.. just somewhere they can be – Cory
1:08 – and that seems to have been an element of the technology.. this idea that we can use networks to arrange it so that no matter where you are something great is there..
this is the invisible magic
the river why – gus connection law
1:12 – on – not changing people’s minds.. but changing what they do about it – Cory
1:14 – can’t outrun it anywhere – Cory
1:20 – actually ed back.. cut off.. when saying.. being born from treason.. and.. this is the fundamental liberty..
what liberty really means.. to act w/o permission.. freedom from permission.. – Ed
1:23 – we’ve lost those undiscovered spaces.. and the true frontier space .. people discovered.. not undiscovered.. but unregulated.. ie: when do things that jeopardize riches people in society.. how to make this a post scarcity not in terms of resources but in terms of days to live – Ed
1:24 – when we have no unexplored spaces today.. is our frontier spirit more about invention/ideas that is about the physical location where we occupy.. what would you say is the frontier today.. – Ed
1:25 – hard to talk about frontiers w/o talking about power relationships they always embody – Cory
1:26 – i don’t know if i want to recapture that frontier spirit .. always involves erasure.. i think if there’s a place people think not everything has to be mandatory or prohibited today.. it is around the periphery of tech.. we still have this idea of federation of networks.. don’t need to agree on everything in order to cross connect.. across boundaries.. can do radically diff things – Cory
io dance ness
federalist view – very utopian.. can disagree about almost everything.. but have two separate parallel experiments.. – Cory..
1:28 – the immoralities is a mcguffin – able to say whatever you want – Cory
1:29 – the mcguffin of immortality.. the positional good – when you have something that others don’t.. when that becomes widespread.. some people interpret that abundance as a bug and not a feature – Cory
1:32 – nature of rights.. don’t need to justify them.. they are for the most vulnerable among us.. to property/opinion/speech.. not necessary if you are ie: mark zuckerberg.. a general.. if you have access to resources/power… but for people who don’t have much.. are a little diff.. have radical ideas.. these are the people for whom rights matter most w/least capability to defend them.. these are the people who make our society good.. make the world move forward.. status quo don’t drive progress.. – Ed
1:34 – privacy isn’t about something to hide.. but to protect.. space for self/ideas.. w/o haunting.. if happen to be bad.. try them in a space.. – Ed
1:35 – arguing for privacy because nothing to hide.. like arguing for freedom of speech because have nothing to say – Ed
1:36 – this system should be improved upon in a radical way w/o asking permission.. – Ed
what is the route for reform
1:37 – ability to form groups and work together – Cory
find people via 2 convos a day..
before.. if wanted to work together.. had to what for others to catch up et al..
what internet has done is given us this fluid improvisational style – Cory
1:38 – ability to have the form of coming together for a good bake sale but to work on a wikipedia..the problem of forming groups has always been esp hard for opposition groups.. because all..
opposition groups pay a very high institutional cost – have to not only find people like them.. but keep the existence of the group something like a secret
if not from govt itself.. maybe from people they don’t want to disclose their political affiliations or heterodox views to.. ie: gay liberation.. needed to be in the closet and then find other people in the closet.. but then figure out a way to work together to argue that you should all be able to come out of the closet without necessarily coming out of the closet.. that was a really hard project – Cory
1:39 – the ability for us to find people like us.. very cheaply.. online.. esp heterodox views.. *is playing out around us.. in ways that run as an absolute counter to the increased oppressive surveillance/control/hierarchy that we’re seeing at the state level.. for better or for worse.. – Cory
*let’s focus on that .. let’s free 7bn.. up for that.. we can.. we have the means.. a nother way
1:40 – fearful for future.. when two rub up against each other.. – Cory
is it that.. or is it that we have that freedom.. but after hours.. so it’s not us accessing the freedom.. ie: like us sitting on couch because we’re tired.. so more might use it for not human nature stuff..
i’m just saying.. the partial ness is what’s killing us.. and keeping us from us.. and this invisible magic.. as you say
1:59 – we haven’t paid attention to how people feel when they try these other things.. ways that make people happy and not just busy – Cory
this again is the partial ness killing us.. it’s perpetuating exhaustion/defense/ et al
i’m for building a world that beggars our imagination – Cory
walkaway review by npr
“The point of Walkaway is the first days of a better nation,” says one of Doctorow’s characters. Says many of them, actually. That’s the recurring belief-system on which the book runs. It is the story of precisely this — what comes after the slow-burn apocalypse we all secretly fear is coming, how it will work, how it will all go wrong and how it will get made right again with drones, wet printers and elbow grease.
walkaway via google books
In a world wrecked by climate change, in a society owned by the ultra-rich, in a city hollowed out by industrial flight, Hubert, Etc, Seth and Natalie have nowhere else to be and nothing better to do. But there is another way. ..
Cory Doctorow and John Scalzi: “walkaway & the Collapsing Empire” | Talks at Google
8 min – the likelihood of a world where 99.9% are total bastards (because people saying this also include.. except me and everyone i know) .. and everyone that you know isn’t .. is really low.. it’s much more likely that the people around you are a rep sample (of world) and that they have the dual nature of humans.. on a good day rise.. on bad day regrets..
9 min – solved by people who run to the middle.. not to the hills
10 min – walkaway is a story about people who are consciously trying to form societies that fail gracefully instead of societies that work well..
a nother antifragile way
and that they’re trying to use.. the coordinated latent power of tech to get there rather than thinking about tech as a thing that helps us manufacture/communicate.. they’re thinking that about it as a thing that lets us at our labor one to the other.. even if we don’t all agree on what needs to be done.. [do what we do and leave a trail – whether it’s used or not]
11 min – rather than sit down and have someone tell us all what to do .. we all do what we think needs to be done and we have a tool that lets the parts of it that are useful glom together
there were a lot of people who didn’t want wikipedia and gnu for 1st 10 yrs.. and they were really right for first 10 yrs.. that’s the amazing thing.. jimmy wales: it is a complete disaster in theory it only works in practice
12 min – thing for solving disputes: forking
fork to the limit of idio jargon
18 min – the likelihood that the thing you want to do won’t be tolerated and you can’t find anyone to do it.. that’s a pretty low likelihood
2 convos would drive likelihood to nil
19 min – we could use coordination to simply shunt around resources..we could realize these new efficiencies..
really challenges notion that you can’t have infinite growth in a finite world.. infinite growth implies you don’t have any kind of process automation.. don’t have any changes in what people want.. but there doesn’t seem to be any bottom in sight to how many few tons of steel you can put in a car
20 min – most interesting in sci fi.. take a tech phenom and see if it can be extracted from its social/econ context and whether it still works..
23 min – on banks’ focus being more on manufacture than coord
Bad news: tech is making us more unequal. Good news: tech can make us more equal. boingboing.net/2017/05/31/zot…
zottas vs walkaway
how to use technology to attain those goals
notes/quotes from reading book:
for Erik Stewart and Aaron Swartz. first days, better nations. we fight on.
First of all the arguments seem to me to have that the reek of collegiate mind-game logic games, right? Like, I had a roommate and a dear friend—actually one of the people Walkaway is dedicated to—Eric Stewart, who died unexpectedly a few years ago without any proximate cause, just didn’t wake up one morning. But he was very clever. And in high school one day he sat down and said, “So the universe is infinitely prolonged, right, it goes on forever.”
And I’m like, “That’s what I’m understanding.”
And he said, “We have finite life spans.”
And I said, “Yeah.”
He said, “Anything finite divided by something infinite is zero.”
I’m like, “All right.”
He said, “Therefore the probability of us being alive at this moment is zero.”
I’m like, “Okay.”
“And the only thing that is nonzero when divided by infinity is infinity.”
I’m like, “Yeah.”
He’s like, “Therefore we have infinitely prolonged lives and we are immortal.”
I’m like, “Can’t argue with your reasoning but I don’t think it’s true.”
we don’t do barter. this is gifts, the gift economy. everything freely given, nothing sought in return… of course it’s hard to get people out of the scarcity quid pro quo habit.. anyone trying to give or get money around here, we sling ’em out on the butts, no second chance..
we’re playing a diff game: post-scarcity
this world . if you’re aren’t a success, you’re a failure. if you’re not on top, you’re on the bottom..if you’re in between, you’re hanging on by your fingernails, hoping you can get a better grip before your strength gives out. everyone holding on is too scared to let go. everyone on the bottom is too worn down to try. the people on the top? they’re the ones who depend on thing staying the way they are
if a paycheck could change your life, do you think they’d let you have one?..t
i’m suspicious of any plan to fix unfairness that starts w ‘step one, dismantle the entire system and replace it with a better one esp if you can’t do anything else until step one is done. of all the ways that people kid themselves into do ing nothing, that one is the most self-serving..
what about walkways? huber, etc said.
seems to me that they’re doing something that makes a diff. no money, not pretending money matters.. and they’re doing it right now
if you wanted, you could have all the info you needed to go walkaway in about ten minutes time, could be on the road tomorrow, living like it was the first days of a better nation..
tragedy of commons.. commons.. land that belongs to no one… everyone knows that the bastard (who’s sheep graze till just mud) is on the way, so they might as well be that bastard. better that sheep belonging to a nice guy like you
the solution to the tragedy of the commons isn’t to get a cop to make sure sociopaths aren’t overgrazing the land, or shunning anyone who does it, turning him into a pariah. the solution is to let a robber-baron own the land that used to be everyone’s because once he’s running it for profit, he’ll take exquisite care to generate profit forever..t
that’s the tragedy of the commons? a fairy tale about giving public assets to rich people to run as personal empires because that way they’ll make sure they’re better managed .. than they would be if we just made up some rules?
you couldn’t live like you were being observed..
in gift econ you gave w/o keeping score, because keeping score implied and expectation of reward. if you’re doing something for reward, it’s an investment, not a gift
the menu evolved thru the day, depending on the feedstocks visitors brought..
the point of walkaways was living for abundance,..t and in abundance, why worry if you were putting in as much as you took out? but freeloaders were freeloaders and there was no shortage of assholes who’d take all the best stuff or ruin things thru thoughtlessness.. people noticed. assholes didn’t get invited to parties. no one went out of their way to look out for them. even w/o a ledger, there was still a ledger,
i got that impression.. you’re not supposed to covet a job and you’re not supposed to look down your nose at slackers, and you’re not supposed to lionize someone who’s slaving. it’s supposed to be emergent, natural homeostasis, right?
asking someone if you can pitch in is telling them that they’re in charge and deferring to their authority.. if you want to work.. do something.. if it’s not helpful, maybe i’ll undo it later, or talk it over with you, or let it slide.
is there… is there really abundance? if the whole world went walkaway tomorrow would there be enough..t
by defn.. because enough is whatever you make it.. depending on how you look at it, there’ll never be enough or there’ll always be plenty..
it doesn’t work at all in theory. in theory we’re selfish assholes who want more than our neighbors, can’t be happy w a lot if someone else has a lot more. in theory, someone will walk into this place when noone’s around and take everything. in theory, it’s bullshit..
this stuff only works in practice. in theory , it’s a mess..t
you don’t have to believe it, but it’s the truth
i admit i don’t have anything to prove it
that’s what a walkawawy is – not walking out on ‘society’ but acknowledging that in zotta world, we’re problem sot be solved, not citizens.. that’s why you never hear politicians talking about ‘citizens’ it’s all ‘taxpayers’ as thought the salient fact of our relationship to the state is how much you pay.
talking about ‘taxpayers’ means that the state’s debt is to rich dudes, and anything it gives to kids/ol/sick/disabled people is charity we should be grateful for, since none of those people are paying tax that justifies their rewards from govt inc..
maybe we’re the easiest of all since we’re ready to walk away. what about people who’re too sick/young/old/stubborn and demand that the state cope w them as citizens – etc
those people can be most easily rounded up and institutionalized. that’s’ why they can’t run away.. it’s monstrous, but we’re talking about monstrous things..
do you really think sottas sit around .. plotting how to separate the goats from the sheep? – etc
of course not.. if they did that, we could suicide bomb them.. i think this is an emergent outcome.. it’s even more evil, because it exists in a zone of diffused responsibility: no one decide to imprison the poor in record numbers, it just happen as a consequence of tougher laws, less funding for legal aid, added expense in the appeals process.. there’s no person/decision/political process you can blame.. ti’s systemic..
being in the death cult of money and status marked you.
which was very forward of her and a good walkway kind of question, in that it violated every norm of default
there are as many walkaway philosophies as there are walkaways, but mine is, ‘the stories you tell come true’ .. if you believe everyone is untrustworthy, you’ll build that into your systems so that even the best people have to act like the worst people to get anything done.. if you assume people are okay, you live a much happier life’..t
i don’t have anything to get ripped off. it makes life easier .. walks are a lot more pleasant. no one bothers to rob me..
i had everything in that bag.. let me guess … money. id. food. water. spare wearable stuff. clean underwear.. the girl nodded.. right.. well.. you don’t need money or id here.. t food and water we got.. clean underwear and wearables .. easy..
getting ripped of happens to everyone who goes walkaway. it’s a right of passage. owning something that isn’t fungible means that you’ve got to make sure someone else doesn’t take it. once you let go of that, everything gets much easier..
let go of the things you have to cling to.. ness
the cure had been the realization that everything was everywhere, stuff in walkaway was a normalized cloud of potential on-demand things. the opportunity cost of not having the right salad fork when she wanted a salad was lower than the opportunity cost of not being able to go where she wanted to go w/o hauling mountains of pain-in -the -back stuff..
making other people feel like assholes was a terrible way to get them to stop acting like assholes..t
out here, you want people to magically not take too much but also not earn the right to take more by working harder and also to work because it’s a gift but not because they expect anything in return… that’s the walkaway dilemma
if you do things because you want someone else to pat you on the head, you won’t get as good at it as someone who does it for internal satisfaction. .. if we set up a system that makes people compete for acknowledgment we invite game-playing and stats-fiddling, even unhealthy stuff like working stupid hours to beat everyone. a crew full of unhappy people doing substandard work.t if you build systems that make people focus on mastery, cooperation and better work, we’ll have a beautiful inn full of happy people working together well
the idea that there wouldn’t be leaders in the race to build a leaderless society offended him in ways he wouldn’t let himself understand..
she pointed out that getting human to ‘do the right thing’ by incentivinzing them to vanquish one another was stupid. she found videos of skinner trained pigeons who’d been taught to play piano thru food-pellet training and pointed out that everyone who like this envisioned himself as the experimenter – not the pigeon..
the problem was l’s vagina. it made her unable to understand the competitive fire that was the true motive force that kept humans going
competition.. et al
lovedaresnot: radical or difficult ideas were held back by the thought that no one else had them. that fear of isolation led people to stay ‘in the closet’ about their ideas, making the the ‘love that dares not speak its name.’ so lovedaresnot gave you a way to find out if anyone else felt the same, w/o forcing you to out yourself
ie: self-talk as data
the only way to win was not to play..
waves of new walkaways headed this way, a massive uptick that would overwhelm us unless we had some system to allocate resources..t
as soon as someone started talking about rationing, the urge to hoard became irresistible.. as soon as she shared, the hoarding impulse melted..t
ok.. we’ll build another b and b.. you’re going to give up w/o a fight?.. we’re called walkaways because we walk away..
when you meet a monster you back away and let it gnaw at whatever bone it’s fascinated with. there are other bones. we know how to make bones. .
we can live like it’s the first days of a better world, ..t
not like it’s the first pages of an ayn rand novel. .
have this place, but you can’t have us. we withdraw our company..
everyone would remember.. what happened when the special snowflake disease ran unchecked.. they’d build something bigger more beautiful..
you made that place.. you just let him take it… wasn’t mine, i didn’t make it, i didn’t let him take it.. she practically heard the very refined eye-roll w breeding, money, and privilege behind it… why would fighting have been preferable to making something else .. t like the b and b but better..?
the important thing is to convince people to make and share useful things. fighting with greedy douches who don’t share doesn’t do that. making more, living under conditions of abundance that does it
now we know the reason people are willing to let tech change their worlds is shit is fucked up for them, and they don’t want to hang onto what they’ve got
there’s more people than ever who don’t have any love for the way things are.. everyone of them would happily jettison everything they think of as normal for the chance to do something weird that might be better
things could be walked away from and made anew; no one would ever have to fight..
iceweasel tried to learn to relax. the b&b didn’t need that much work to keep going..
covered dish person.. if there’s disaster do you go to neighbor’s w a) covered dish or b) shotgun.. game theory.. two hunters together can catch a stag… either hunter alone can only catch rabbits.. unless they trust each other.. they’ll have coney surprise for suppers
we can all have enough, so long as we’re not fucking each other over..
once you’ve been a shotgun person for a while, it’s hard to imagine anything else, and you start using stupid terms like ‘human nature’ to describe it. if being a selfish, untrusting asshole is human nature, then how do we form friendships.. where do families come from..
human nature ness
i think you have to be a mathematician to appreciate how full of shit economists are.. how deeply bogus those neat equations are
your dad hires economists for intellectual cover, to prove his dynastic fortunes and political influence are the outcome of a complex, self-correcting mechanism with the mystical power to pluck the deserving out of the teeming mass of humanity and elevate them so they can wisely guide us.. they have a science-y vocab conceived of solely to praise people like your father.. like job creator. as though we need jobs.. if there’s one thing i’m sure of.. i never want to have a job again.. i do math because i can’t stop. because i’ve found people who need my math to do something amazing..
earn a living ness
if you need to pay me to do math, that’s because a/ you’ve figured out how to starve me unless i do a job and b/ you want me to do boring, stupid math with no intrinsic interest.. a ‘job creator’ is someone who figures out how to threaten you with starvation unless you do something you don’t want to do..t
everyone is a wizard at something. okay, not quite..
yes.. quite.. everyone.. it has to be .. everyone..if we don’t get that.. we’ll not get to equity..
this is huge.. let go
walkaways walk away.. but what if you’re confined..
what does a walkaway do when she can’t walk away..
he’d call this humane, a ‘low impact’ way of ‘bringing me around’ to sanity, which in his world, is the ability to bullshit yourself into believing you deserve to have more of everything that everyone else has less of , because of your special snowflakeness
if you teach a generation of people they have to step on their neighbors to survive, setting up a society where everyone who doesn’t gets stepped on, the kids of those people will learn to betray their neighbors from the cradle..
every person has something he’s good at. you find those things and help those people get there and that makes everyone happy ..t..
find thru listening to curiosities.. and facil ing that..
and productive and we’ll all be better. you don’t need to order people to do jobs they hate.. once you get hold of this idea, you can turn it into math, model its game theory , find its nash equilibrium. its such a beautiful idea. it models perfectly. under it..everyone is happier. everyone gets nudged into doing the thing they’re best at, which is the best way to make everyone happy
you’d had a place where everyone took what they needed. you didn’t need to police it or give people tokens certifying they’d earned the right to be there. it just.. worked..t
she welled up with sympathy for jimmy.. she understood him better than he did. under the circumstances, she could be him
i know you ness..
like you did.. no to rescue me. to take care of me because we’re part of the same thing.. i came back to hep you because helping people is what you do whether or not they’re in your thing, because that’s the best world to live in…. first days of a better nation
what made you walkway – debt… i got this huge push from admin.. like religion for them. they could only keep their charter if they ran a certain percentage of students thru it and they followed its advice. so once you got your career picked by the thing, that was it. every teacher and admin knew their paychecks depended on you doing what it told you.. once it chose your career it had lots of advice about how you get there..wasting time/money.. no one would hire me.. if didn’t take them all.. my parents couldn’t afford it.. they were maxed out on credit for my fancy high school.. this was going to be my debt.. i could get a loan.. they get a cut of your paycheck until you’re dead..
everyone i met who’d done it said it was slavery
you keep bitching about how everything is fucked up and shit and there you are getting ready to play along with it like good debt slaves.. t.. everyone know s there’s an alternative..
no one wanted to say the world ‘walkaway’ because it was a superstition.. couldn’t be trusted…
they were walkaways because there was nothing for them in default – no rent money, no healthcare, no food..
it ached inside her. a voice she hated, always louder when she was sad, reminded her she’d once taught at a uni, had a house, a name, and an address. once she’d been able to buy things when she needed them – even if she had to go into det – could pretend there was a future. now she had none of those things least of all a future. she was living as though it was the first days of a better nation, but that nation was nowhere in sight.. instead, she had a no-man’s-land of drone strikes and slit throats..
everyone with more money than they could spend spends every hour trying to get more.. walkaways, who have nothing, play like no one in default. they play like kids.. before anyone knows about schedules..t
they do things people always think, if only i was rich.. the irony is, rich people don’t get to do that stuff..t
they could sit together, not speaking. the silence wasn’t distance, it was closeness
then they threatened parents with jail for not sending their kids to school
(after .. latest iraq invasion.. and both sides refusing to fight).. once you realize there’s a world that wants what you have to give, well, it’s hard to convince people to kill each other..t
better nation talk needs to die in a fire. we’re not doing nations anymore. we’re doing people, doing stuff. nations mean govts, passports, borders..t
there’s nothing wrong w a border, so long as it isn’t too rigid. our cells hold in the lift gas, they make borders w the atmosphere. my skin is a border for my body.. it lets in the good and keeps out the bad. you have your borders, like all sims, which keep you stable and running. we don’t need no borders, just good ones
i know there will always be people like you… rich people.. people who think other people are like them… the question is whether people like you will get to define the default.. we’re not making a world w/o greed.. we’re making a world where greed is a perversion.. where grabbing everything for yourself instead of sharing is like smearing ourself with shit: gross. wrong. our winning doesn’t mean you don’t get to be greedy. it means peope will be ashamed for you, will pity you and want to distance themselves from you. you can be as greedy as you want, but no one will admire you for it..
via @OzKaterji rt
Rafael Behr (@rafaelbehr) tweeted at 2:07 AM – 6 Oct 2017 :
I wonder who will be first prominent leaver to admit to self, then country that Brexit proving impossible to do without breaking everything. (http://twitter.com/rafaelbehr/status/916213228836925440?s=17)
Cory Doctorow: “Walkaway” | Talks at Google https://t.co/64X4e5zEp4
Original Tweet: https://twitter.com/doctorow/status/916498546324529152
reading from ch 2
an optimistic disaster novel
elite panic – wealthy believing when lights go out poor will come for you
21 min – possible to be getting along yet having irreconcilable diff’s on how to go about getting machine started again
22 min – hope.. not that problem will be solved.. but that can find one way to make it a little better.. and from there.. find another
29 min – signal loss turning into info
47 min – the best hope we have for surviving a crisis – people who know each other.. . .. weak ties as resilience.. t
Loved this story… Good job @doctorow https://t.co/HUBXKXp92G
Original Tweet: https://twitter.com/neilhimself/status/916783140450000896
via michel fb share:
Elaborate commons economics development via science fiction:
(Cory Doctorow’s Walkaway, which I haven’t read yet, but this reading group is making a masterly analysis of it)
“An attractive element of modern standard economics is that it is micro-founded. First, the individual agent’s behavior is modeled, and an equilibrium for the model is found. Next, economists build mesoscale models (for example, partial equilibrium models for a specific market) and macroscale ones (for example, general equilibrium models for the whole economy). These are built in such a way that the lower-level equilibria generate the upper-level ones: zoom in onto a general equilibrium model and it resolves into individual consumers and firms making their choices.
This consistency is useful and elegant. Alternative economic systems should also be micro-founded to be taken seriously. Walkaway, it seems to me, makes an attempt at building a micro-founded model of a whole system (the walkaway economy), but it comprehensively rejects standard micro. It eventually replaces it with a micro behavior of its own, but of a very different kind. I can see four moves:
Expose standard micro as based on flawed assumptions.
Argue that the behavior of individual agents is based on intersubjective conventions. This shifts the argument from economics as we know it to political economy, the border land between economics and that moral philosophy that it grew out of.
Propose a political economy that works well with digital commons, and re-build a micro model based on that.
Proceed to derive meso- and macro-level behavior founded on those new micro models.”
by @alberto_cottica of @edgeryders
1\ Expose standard micro as based on flawed assumptions.. ie: tragedy of commons..t
Jacob Redwater thinks that wanting to “be that bastard” who will overgraze the common field is human nature.
limpopo: If you believe everyone is untrustworthy, you’ll build that into your systems so that even the best people have to act like the worst people to get anything done. If you assume people are okay, you live a much happier life
As we have seen, Doctorow believes human nature to be less rigid than standard economics makes it to be. But if humans are programmable, what should we program ourselves for? And what, specifically, would be the object of programming?
The answer seems to be this: we should program into ourselves an ethos that supports practices of networked collaboration, aimed at the production of commons. .t
Groups of humans get better at cooperating by adopting systems of rules that make cooperation easier.
graeber: if you really care about getting something done, the most efficient way to go about it is obviously to allocate tasks by ability and give people whatever they need to do them.
No need to keep scores of who got what for what; no need for currencies, value storage, means of exchange..t
these are disturbances/distractions to meadows undisturbed ecosystem
Bucket brigades were a system through which everyone could do whatever they wanted—within the system—however fast you wanted to go; everything you did helped and none of it slowed down anyone else..t
At this point, I think I have made a case that the economics of Walkaway does, indeed, fill our bill of “imagining an economic system completely different from what we have”. . t
ie: short bp
Gretyl: “I think you have to be a mathematician to appreciate how full of shit economists are, how astrological their equations are. No offense to your egalitarian soul, but you lack the training to understand how deeply bogus those neat equations are.”
@monk51295 Have you seen this? You might especially like the part about micro-foundationshttps://t.co/B3TxAgEtc4
Original Tweet: https://twitter.com/KevinCarson1/status/1128413836925636613
From microeconomics to political economy and back: thoughts on the micro foundations of the Walkaway economy
This consistency is useful and elegant. Alternative economic systems should also be micro-founded to be taken seriously. Walkaway, it seems to me, makes an attempt at building a micro-founded model of a whole system (the walkaway economy), but it comprehensively rejects standard micro. It eventually replaces it with a micro behavior of its own, but of a very different kind.
not diff enough
In these cases, communism is simply more efficient. No need to keep scores of who got what for what; no need for currencies, value storage, means of exchange.
So, walkaways build an economy by the simple expedient of making it easy, efficient and pleasurable to work on common projects..t
only way to do that is if we have a mech to listen to and facil individual curiosities first.. everyday.. all other ‘common projects’ are a form of coercion.. and won’t last
yes.. this sounds ridiculous.. but today we have the means to facil that.. so.. it’s more ridiculous to keep spinning our wheels
*Making it easy, efficient and pleasurable to work on common projects is by no means easy..t Walkaway contains plenty of interaction protocols meant **to make cooperation easier. The bucket brigade concept is presented as a textbook example of how cooperation should work:
Bucket brigades only ask you to work as hard as you want—rush forward to get a new load and back to pass it off, or amble between them, or vary your speed. It didn’t matter—if you went faster, it meant the people on either side of you didn’t have to walk as far, but it didn’t require them to go faster or slower. If you slowed, everyone else stayed at the same speed. Bucket brigades were a system through which everyone could do whatever they wanted—within the system—however fast you wanted to go; everything you did helped and none of it slowed down anyone else. [emphasis mine]
**best way is to start from 7b individual daily curiosities.. first
At this point, I think I have made a case that the economics of Walkaway does, indeed, fill our bill of “imagining an economic system completely different from what we have”..t
true.. but not completely diff enough.. to sustain itself..
“I think you have to be a mathematician to appreciate how full of shit economists are, how astrological their equations are. No offense to your egalitarian soul, but you lack the training to understand how deeply bogus those neat equations are.”
I don’t completely understand this last one. Still. I rest my case
nothing alive is equal.. ie: can be captured in an equation.. this is why ie: stephen hawking and einstein and et al.. never got that one equation