binding chaos

binding chaos.png

The world is long overdue for a completely new system of governance. If there was ever a need for political representation or a paternalistic and opaque authority, it has been removed by technology. Every political system we have tried has proven incapable of protecting human rights and dignity. Every political system we have tried has devolved into oligarchy. To effect the change we require immediately, to give individuals control and responsibility, to bring regional systems under regional governance, allow global collaboration and protect the heritage of future generations, we need a new political model.


(2013) by Heather Marsh




not in library.. so reading from pdf


6 (very first sentence)

the world is long overdue for a completely new system of governance..t

(2nd sentence)

if there was ever a need for political representation or a paternalistic and opaque authority, it has been removed by technology.. t

(3rd sentence)

every political system we have tried has proven incapable of protecting human rights and dignity..has developed into oligarchy..

our naturally migratory species are being cages like zoo animals, increasingly even as tech makes it more possible for us to interact.. immigration has become a privilege of the elite instead of a right of the desperate… the world’s people are being divided not into naturally forming communities but into corp controlled econ markets..


this power to dismantle the structure we have relied on is terrifying to many because there is no clear path ahead.. and few structures have yet formed to replace the ones that are crumbling..the growth of extreme nationalists and traditionalists worldwide, the buildup of militaries and intelligence monitoring are indicative of this fear of our unknown future.. old authoritarian systems can no longer bind the natural chaos of a free society, but we can show the power of chaotic order, the beauty and creativity of collab freedom, if we build the right structures now..

the transference of old ideas to our new capabilities has so far mostly served to prove the ridiculousness of the old ideas, not provide alts..

we now have the opp to create real alts for both econ and influence, for communication, collab and all tools of society

eagle and condor ness


this text is.. looking for methods of mass collab which would allow us to effectively communicate and create on a global scale while still allowing us autonomy and regional voice..t

let’s try this.. ie: hlb via 2 convos that io dance.. as the day..[aka: not part\ial.. for (blank)’s sake…]..  a nother way

the internet created an environ where it was possible to collab in ways that had never been tried before, to experiment w global participation, anonymity, a money free society, idea driven projects and many other methods that are still impossible or difficult in physical life..

the search for methodology in this book is more systems anal than philosophy.. we need structure we can actually code or build and the limitations of the internet, as our primary location of mass communication and collab, must be considered..


all voices .. must be heard..

holmgren indigenous law


around world people are lamenting demise of democracy.. or fighting for birth of new democracy…. democracy is a universally failed concept.. ideas were flawed to begin with..

‘true’ democracy is at best only one step removed from ochlocracy (government by a mob; mob rule.) or mob rule..  a society where the majority create laws..  ie: celebration of democracy in burma did not prevent the attempted genocide of the rohingya people.. democracy in egypt leaves almost half population living under social contract they are vehemently opposed to.. et al..

rohingya people

two options commonly held: direct and rep democracy


direct: a pure tyranny of the majority.. direct democracy is impossible in actuality as no one can have the time to participate in every decision concerning them.. not best solutions.. but most popular..


liquid democracy is not a new system (pirate party) it is a return to a previously failed system..

rep: evolved as means to overcome some of flaws of direct.. has become a cripplingly paradoxical system which celebrates nouns over verbs and is far more concerned w rep of every conceivable group than the governing actions being taken..


rep democracy is designed not to care about individual rights but to care about what noun each person can id with and how strong is the lobby group associated w that noun.. rep demo is decisive, ineffectual and based on impossible principles..

as we have progressed to the point where we can eliminate these weaknesses, we have instead greatly increased their use and stopped questioning their appropriateness.

group: collection of individuals united for certain time/space by specific idea/experience

individuals: have ability to associate, exchange ideas, agree, coop, cohabit.. collab.. but the group they form does not become an individual.. it cannot logically be granted a voice/vote/political/legal power.. it is only in a system governed by groups.. does not respect individual rights..

public consensus always oppresses someone..

conversely.. never a need for an individual to act as a group. no longer live in world where one individual has to make a long arduous journey to appear in person to rep their town/region.. we need to work to ensure there is no reason why individuals cannot rep selves in any circumstance..t

mech to listen to all the voices.. everyday.. via 2 convos


individual voices need to be treasured, not lost for expedience

holmgren indigenous law

an individual speaking for a group is a dishonest mask for an unfairly weighted individual voice in almost every circumstance..

or every

rep democracy is very personality drive.. a charismatic leader is given authority seldom commensurate w any expertise/experience


the task of rep ing others is impossible and perilous in actuality, so the job is rarely taken up by anyone except as an opp to further a personal agenda..

rep demo is the most dishonest oligarchy of all as it insists on the falsehood that the voice of its oligarchs is the voice of the people.. and the subsequent falsehood that their rule is rule by the people..

krishnamurti free will law


democracies have not eradicated oligarchy, they have driven it to secrecy.. instead of confronting the problem inherent in an oligarchy, democracy denies it exists while practicing it openly…

communists states have failed for same reasons..

many advocates of both democracy and communism hold that their ideas have never been properly tried.. the refusal to recognize and control the causes of oligarchies is the reason the concepts behind both will never be implemented despite widespread attempts..  these ideologies fail at the gate.. don’t say not been tried.. say.. it doesn’t work..


we can do better than this.. we can govern by user groups.. respect individual rights and global commons and collab using stigmergy.. we can belong to overlapping societies voluntarily by acceptance of social contracts..

why social contracts..? what does that mean..?

thinking that you’re meaning smart contracts .. et al



group affiliation – unlike individuals, who have the power to change their minds/allegiances at will

bravery to change mind

first goal of nation states is to defend their citizens against the ‘other’ an idea .. led/leads to divisive ness

groupthink not only waste of potentially valuable contributions.. can allow flawed initiatives to pass simply because no one wishes to raise and objections..


solved by ridding ourselves of all groups speaking as individuals and letting every individual speak for themselves..

everyday.. for 3 min.. that’s our data.. let’s just focus on that


a group may take an action together, communicate, assemble, agree on points, but a group never has one mind/personality/set-of-values… a group is not an individual and must not be used to rep individual thought.. ie: un reaching consensus is far removed from a real global consensus

marsh label law:

group affiliation is essential for the dehumanization of ‘others’.. encourage pride in whatever noun people id as instead of what actions they have taken.. this is the root of all racism, nationalism, ageism, sexism, and every other form of bigotry..t


rejecting all the ‘isms’s brings equality..t


and i’d say .. brings equity.. (everyone getting a go everyday)


groups id’d as victims are turned into products for lobby groups and fund raisers.. once a group becomes a product the interest is in differentiating them further to enhance the need for their rep..t


the single greatest tool for making moral people commit atrocities is group affiliation. t.. the single greatest tool for promoting global human rights and equality is to end group affiliation..

roots of healing


they have become coercive societies which now must rule by force.. these sweeping changes are usually preceded by creeping changes felt only be the marginalized in society and frequently billed as ‘for their own good’

until every member of society makes it their business to defend the rights of every other member of society, no society will be safe from these encroachments

if marginalized group can be given a group name.. the success of the violation of their rights is far more likely..  if majority of pop does not id as part of victimized group they are easily able to accept the loss of rights.. esp if it is accompanied by propaganda to villainize the group..


easy from there to justify defending citizens not by supporting them but instead by persecuting others..

not getting the social contract ness.. still too much B involved..


every conceivable resource has had access removed from the society and placed in the control of leeches


even if access allows the person plentiful amounts of everything, there is a built in awareness of shortage and reliance on the system that strongly discourages sharing.. to rescue another is to weaken oneself..


in today’s un-society people w any dependencies are seen as worthless, or at best inferior, instead of different..


legal changes and popular propaganda have created such oxymoronic beasts as public individuals and private corps..


a society that has grown up w sexual harassment of women labelled by male dominant media as ‘free speech’ does not understand this harassment for what it is, mass censorship of female voices..


we tend to overlook and belittle the impact of privacy violation, primarily as it so often is directed towards those w marginalized voices, but a look at the amount of suicides, as well as mental health problems cause by these violations is enough to show its importance..

lack of importance placed on privacy may also be directly related to he rule by extroverts we have been subjected to since the beginnings of society. until we had the internet, the leaders of large crowds were almost always charismatic people w gift for public speaking.. belonging to powerful demographic groups.. as internet gained power to pt it is a direct threat to those currently holding power, as liquid feedback replaces public shouting matches, the powerful in the molecular world have sought to expose and control those in the online world.. any involuntary exposure has been met by violent reaction from internet as it is first place for many that has ever felt like a safe place to speak…the internet is well populated by those who have been persecuted and had their voices repressed by others who easily acquire fame/social power..


if the voiceless suddenly gain voices, if the creators no longer need the marketers, women do not need to speak thru men, and children/elderly/discriminated-minorities/ ostracized.. can suddenly speak


we need a change in societal attitude, where we no longer applaud or tolerate assaults on privacy.. et al

the fact that you are doing nothing wrong/illegal is no protection if you have attracted the attention of someone w power or mental instability..

perhaps.. gershenfeld sel.. too busy to do assault et al.. best protection for all of us


perhaps in future we will see everyone w at least 3 id’s: 1/ req’d by military 2\ for fam and friends  3\ for online idea exchange

or no in the openness


the faults of personality driven systems have been called by many names, racism, sexism, ageism, nationalism and more, but all of those isms mean the same thing…*people are being judged as nouns instead of verbs

alt given is idea driven system.. which i’d rather recommend.. curiosity driven.. idea seems too formulated

and.. *people shouldn’t be judged.. as noun or verb


assemblies and all other group/public activities have continued the oligarchies of the extroverts..

public consensus always oppresses someone..


credit for one’s work or ideas is the right of every person.. credit provides the human dignity of societal recognition, approval and belonging..

credit seems 1\ a distraction (it kills your verbness) 2\ not every possible (never just me)

credit for ideas and actions is an inherent part of personal id

yeah.. id seems a distraction.. to nouny.. too ownershippy


while most action based system can be completely open to *participation by anyone, there are situations where an elite level of knowledge and accreditation of some sort is necessary prior to participation. complicated surgery or engineering are ies..

yeah.. i don’t buy that anymore.. ie: sicko.. mal practice.. doing surgeries not needed.. not finding other cures.. because accreditation pkg binds to limited thinking..

and.. too.. to the whole.. *participation by anyone.. i think our focus needs to be less on.. can anyone join.. and more on.. is everyone free..truly free.. so that they would only be in spaces that truly mattered to them.. spaces they cared about enough to get/hear/feel/be the expertise needed.. that’s the dr/engineer/whatever.. i’d want.. not to mention .. perhaps we’d need the dr/engineer less.. if people where that free


there is an urgent need to separate expertise from popularity

gershenfeld sel.. also urgent need to separate expertise from B.. ie: accreditation.. et al


convos which engage no one will fall silent.. shunning is a very powerful tool and should be recognized as such, and not used lightly or maliciously to block access to power..

i think we can do better..we have the means to facil all the convos.. if we facil eudaimoniative surplus

the jargon employed in most specialized fields is used to facil this trolling..

if eudaimoniative surplus.. 1\ wouldn’t have trolling.. and yes..  2\ jargon .. idio jargon.. would provide buffer to that.. wouldn’t work in way you describe though..


along w celebrity have come tools to measure celebrity: wikipedia.. glorification/amplification of corp media and english speakers w tech skills; klout.. don’t just measure influence .. they create it..; google search.. showing people what they already like instead of more realistic.. ; twitter.. no acceptance to being interacting.. becoming less true..; paying fb to promote twitter page/tweet.. et al


anyone can speak, but voices are amp’d as favours given and received and the rules change as accounts grow more powerful..


none of this influence is new, it is in fact a far more toned down, accessible and transparent version of the celebrity and influence peddling we have had for years..

a cultural shift is required around celebrity. celebrity was created to distract attention from issues the true oligarchies did not want scrutinized. the public’s ‘right to know’ was transferred from the business of the govt to the plastic surgery of an entertainer.. this type of celebrity is no longer needed and it is becoming rapidly diluted as the general population occupy celebrity by being tumblr/twitter/etc famous.. voice amplification will soon be merely a job and a fairly boring one at that


it is an artificially controlled environ of privilege that makes one seem better than the other this is easily overcome in a population not controlled by their financial system..

indeed.. begs money less ness.. and too.. by labeling.. ie: person w learning disability.. ?person w brilliant mind.. ?.. where did that come from..?


and history also show that radically new ideas are most often the result of solitary vision.. to leave control of work to group consensus only is to cripple innovation

not sure how you’re coming up w *solitary vision.. how can any vision be solitary..? never just me ness..

not seeing the future as this binary of..1\solitary  or 2\ consensus..  thinking it’s all about interconnectedness.. that would/could occur naturally if we were all free/awake/alive.. but since we’re not.. could occur with mech to facil the chaos of getting us back to one us..


in stigmergy.. no individual needs permission (competitive) or consensus (cooperative) to propose an idea or initiate a project. there is no need to discuss or vote on the idea. if an idea is exciting or necessary it will attract interest

see.. i think we can do better than that.. i think there’s someone somewhere.. that wants to work on that.. curiosity.. (still pushing for curiosity over idea)..  so the key is in listening to all the curiosities.. 7 bn.. plus.. everyday.. so that we can make those matches happen..


wages were created not to motivate us to work, but to control our work

the jobs that corps and govts have chosen to value are almost entirely busywork.. pointless jobs that would not exist in any other (than financial) system


jobs are of course.. not scarce.. any child can find hundreds of valuable things to do at any time, but these valuable jobs have not had an artificial monetary value associated with them..

any for profit system is not going to have social/environ goals as its mandate.. and a wage paying system is a for profit system..


on international level, the financial system serves to artificially control which countries are wealthy and which are not. many of the most resource rich countries in the world have destitute populations and the multinational corps that own the ‘rights’ to their resources remove the wealth to other countries… at a national level, the financial system allows banks, who have no need of housing, to hoard millions of houses.. while the children that used to live in them sleep in the streets.. ant an individual level, the equating of life’s essentials w the financial system can control life or death, fulfillment or wasted potential, contentment or misery..

all of society’s problems which could be solved by money were caused by money

paid work creates poverty. anyone not enabling the corps and doing their work lives in fear of the legal/societal persecution that comes w poverty.. poverty is the hardest work of any available today. it is a very expensive lifestyle, entailing endless fines/charges/fees levied by the corp/govt world. it leaves no time to achieve any fulfillment, is a life threatening health risk, and is extremely damaging to all personal relationships..t


also regarded as a moral failure, a society needs to blame the victim to avoid blaming themselves for the situation the poor find themselves in .. in this way, courage, duty, industry, thrift, kindness, loyalty – all of the traditional virtues may be replaced simply by wealth, the ultimate virtue respected in society today. the very word ‘unemployed’ states idleness, although anyone who has been poor knows how much work i s involved..


wealth is used synonymously w success and achievement. paid work artificially values one job above another (and subsequently the person doing that job above the other) regardless of individual preference..

while manual work might be considered more enjoyable than exec work by most people, since it provides exercise, social interaction and purpose, the assigned values teach us to value pointless exec work instead

paid work occupies all our time.. poverty is a full time job.. this acts to cripple al volunteer work such as community gardens and open source projects that would otherwise be done for free and many undermine the system of wage control over individuals

most definitely would.. if we were all doing/sharing our art.. everyday.. thinking this art ness is beyond volunteering.. at garden or projects.. which would eventually get old for some

paid work feeds a consumer econ..

if people had time to play, exercise and eat healthy food, they would need less med care. if they had time to care for each other, would not need institutions and ngo’s care.. it had time to help selves and each other would not require a vast array of sold products/services..


it is possible for a society to function well w no financial system at all..t

moneyless ness..

affluence w/o abundance

a moneyless system is unlikely to appear soon in its pure form, but it could exist to cover at least basic essentials or an expiring currency could be distributed as a guaranteed periodic income which would cover basic essentials.. would relieve pressing need to obey corp authority.. would allow people to follow path that for them provides greatest satisfaction w/o being held to corp slavery while we create an alt system

true..  but we can greatly hasten this.. ie: short bp

a great fear associated w abolishing wages or providing anything ‘for free’ is that some people may not work. this fear completely disregards the fact that there have always been people who will not work under the current system and thy include the people receiving the highest monetary rewards. nobody worries about those who are rich not working, just the poor. this seems to indicate a fear of shifting social status, not a fear of people not working..


financial independence is really our term for being able to survive w/o society..


what we were taught to think of as ‘the economy’ was defined by aristotle in 350 bce as the acquisition and use of goods for the household, and expanded to focus on the employment of a small niche group of society who made the accumulation and trading of assets their life’s work.. ‘productive’ labour which adds to the value of material was recognized, but ‘the labour of a menial servant.. adds to the value of nothing.’ wrote adam smith 1776

marx – popularized the inclusion of labour as a commodity..pointed out that the exploitation of wages labour was the ultimate source of profit/surplus value in capitalism..

while it was recognized at this point that workers and slaves in capitalist industry were important parts of the econ and were exploited by capitalism, all work done in support of the household and community became invisible. the exploitation of the household and community labourer was the ultimate source of profit and surplus value in waged labour.

gender balance should be provided by the basic human right to choose one’s life’s work .. but balance will not change the anti social nature of a trade econ


a common model to discourage freeloading in a gift econ is to require a certain level of contribution from each member

i think this is opp of what is needed. should be no obligation ness.. if we want artists.. doing anything to give their art away.. i think this is why we get ie: tragedy of commons talk.. because we never let go enough for it to be a commons/commoning in the first place..


the p2p model eliminates the corp hierarchy but leaves the patriarchy alive and well (anyone unable to trade an object/act of direct value..will be left out of trade network.. and dependent on charity..

p2p and gift econs do not allow for society’s input to be inherent in the trade transactions..

why do we focus on that..? back to not letting go.. of measuring transactions.. for fear some will free load.. and then back to your point.. that the rich are freeloading more than anyone now


power in 2p and gift econs is retained by those that control assets.. will cycle right back to where we are today.. p2p trade relationships are simply decentralized capitalism..


marsh exchange law:

all trade must benefit those powerful enough to reciprocate..

people providing palliative or geriatric care, working w mentally ill or children, or with criminals not participating in the econ.. will have no means of survival except charity .. those whose own survival takes all of their available resources because of illness, disability or age, those investing yrs in a long term project w not observable output, or those working in research and other thought based fields also have no inherent value in a p2p structure and must have their needs tacked on as a charitable addendum or debt obligation..


expected to sacrifice health and risk life for a job that was not worth payment..  surviving all the trauma of her life did not entitle her to support from society.. trading a picture was considered providing something of value and contributing to society.. this is a society conducted as  trade relationship.. she cannot sell her children (all from rape.. abducted and child soldier at age 13 et al.. photojournalist told her when paid her for pics she took.. it was money she earned).. therefore her work to them is of no value..  it would however be illegal for her to let the die… so she is legally slave labour… slavery of caregivers and others in this and many other instances is the only reason societies under capitalism can survive..

whoa.. we are so sick..

there are many groups toady advocating living a money free existence by using barter, scavenging, p2p trade and gift econs.. women have been living a money free existence for most of history. women devote a year of their lives to each pregnancy and recovery period and still do by far the most society building /caregiving work worldwide. in trade econs they have to add additional labour on top of this to create some product of exchange that will appeal to a person in power or they and all of their dependents will be at the mercy of those in power.. the p2p barter or ‘gift’ econ require for many to survive has been called the world’s oldest profession: prostitution an endless variety of forms, many called marriage.. trade econs are rigged against women in traditional roles and anyone else creating or supporting society.

p2p networks provide no improvement for the rights of the weak as shown by a history full of p2p extortion gangs, human trafficking networks and brotherly revolutions which became tyrannical immediately upon seizing power..p2p is a survival of the fittest structure which ensures slavery of the weak..


in a society w a trade based econ, currency and centralized power offers more protection to the weak than a p2p structure..  this has been seen by the improvement in women’s lives when they have the right to vote and work for pay , and protection is provided (however theoretically) by the state..



the nostalgia for a time before rampant corp capitalism took hold, when ‘everyone’ benefited from p2p trade is an entirely masculinist view w a very narrow defn of ‘everyone’.. as male role in society has expanded to include far more caregiving, a trade econ suits no one..


insurance corps which provide nothing of real value to society have sprung up for every eventuality and advertise potential calamity incessantly. the fearful society then buys insurance instead of using their surplus to help others experiencing a current disaster.. sometimes this protection racket is mandated by law.. and it is impossible to drive a car, mortgage a house or other activities w/o paying an insurance co selling fear..


sickness is controlled not only by the insurance co’s but by the health industry which controls choice..  the wealthy can afford real health solutions in the form of healthy lifestyles and expensive testing, counseling, therapy and remedies.. the poor are either denied health care or fed the most harmful and invasive quick fix pharmas and procedures w little to no after care or general wellness assistance..  poor health is considered an individual responsiblity despite frequently or usually being caused by societal pollution, poor nutritional options, unsafe environs, etc..

the ed caregivers are convinced is necessary for a child to succeed is only necessary to perpetuate the trade econ. the poor are streamed to schools which teach the futility of resistance, and the reality that elite options will never be available to them.. the wealthy are taught to excel in arts, athletics and academics to no purpose except to appear accomplished in th manner of the old aristocracy..

young adults are persuaded they must mortgage their futures before beginning them by entering overwhelming debt agreements for Ed which benefits the trade econ..


jobs in labour are frequently sold in a similar manner..  this ensures workers can never leave the trade econ as they are indentured for yrs, captured first by paying for the privilege of working, second by fears for retirement..t

however reasonable a legal system may seem, lawyers and arbitrary system of judicial discretion ensure that the laws work against the poor.. it does not matter if law is on side of poor if a rich opponent drags the process out for yrs and bankrupts them.. or ensures they cannot keep up w legal process or don’t have expertise/time to fight..

once in prison, people become part of a huge predatory industry.. taxes pay private or state owned corps set up wo warehouse prisoners not rehabilitate them.. penal labour.. work below min wage and services sold to other corps.. taxpayers pay to feed/house people who are forced to work as slaves for corps.. there is not incentive in a trade econ to not build and fill as many prisons as possible..

and back to the whole.. if we don’t have rules.. the people will run amok


disasters which require voluntary assistance are preyed up on by ngo’s who build powerful empires by standing between those in need and the society willing to help them.. t..’rebuilding’ efforts are typically an opp for multinational corps to come in and exploit the disaster site with offers of ‘creating jobs’

political unrest supports the global war industry..  once, a peace agreement generally meant disarmament.. now when ‘peace’ finally arrives to a region, after extended media ads of all the war equip being used, extensive new mass killing equip is purchased to ‘ensure peace’.. the end of a war, like every other disaster, is a signal for the ‘rebuilding’ efforts of ngo empires and exploitative multi nationals..


wide spread and growing human trafficking is a product of a society build on trade relationships. preying particularly on the weakest members of society, human traffickers also frequent disaster areas looking for those who will not be easily traced. people are captured and sold for pedophiles, prostitution, slavery, military, organ harvesting and even ritual killings where their body parts are said to bring wealth and power to the purchaser.

in many cases poor people are expected to ‘volunteer’ in exchange for food and lodging in yet another form of modern slavery

back to obligation ness.. and measuring how much people contribute.. as poisonous


frequently the lifestyle forced by poverty leaves no legal choices and forces them in to the prison system..

in a trade econ, dependency is a product to be exploited and sold to society for max profit..

approval econ: to create a giving econ instead of a gift econ, exchange is not between two trading partners.. societal approval is awarded from all of society to the giver..societal approval and trust then entitles each member of a society to receive benefit from that society, thru a living and immediate social contract. as a reputation econ allows you to participate in trade, an approval econ allows you to become part of society..

? so far .. yuck


in a trade econ, the currency exchanged separates the giver and receiver.. because the currency *entitles the receiver to the gift they are not grateful..the human need for social and familial **approval is almost never adequately met in trade econs

*10 day cares ness


an econ based on societal approval equates not working for others w being excluded/shunned. in an approval based econ, control of assets does not bring power. assets are not assigned worth until they are contributed to the society.

wealth is created by giving. acceptance by society is based on actions instead of assets..

who’s measuring these actions..?  sounds like earning ness.. that will/does hugely mess with us.. what if you can’t see them.. never nothing going on.. et al


in an approval econ, effort to benefit society is recognized and acts against society are penalized…

again.. who’s deciding what’s benefit and what’s not.. seems there’d be too much inspecting going on.. getting us right back to where we are now..

approval ratings..  the benefits of belonging to a society will dictate how motivate people are to contribute to it..

? ugh


acceptance or reintegration in to a society in an approval econ is a product of subsequent good behaviour and effort expended to increase approval..a person who has lost their good standing would be forced into a trade econ relationships to receive any benefits and have to ‘pay up front’ rather than have the rights of a member of society.. shunning would ensure that laws were true reflections of popular opinion, though shunning must never be used to remove the rights in asocial contract by mob rule

this sound subliminally hideous..

shun: persistently avoid, ignore, or reject (someone or something) through antipathy or caution.

what we all need is more.. your own song.. ness.. maté basic needs


the trust networks and reputations which make up an approval econ are part of the daily life of all societies already..

but not natural.. not us.. we voluntary complianced that..

the people you invite to eat a dinner you have provided are typically people who have earned your trust and approval. they will usually provide similar benefits to you if they are able, and if they consistently do not they may begin to receive less invitation.s

ugh.. 1\ i don’t believe in earning trust.. and 2\ i don’t believe in obligation to reciprocate… i think they are both poison to the soul..

approval econs are the natural econs of human society

dang.. not natural..

different kind of measuring perhaps.. but same damage..


property ownership defined as rights to property always exists..

not buying that.. more poison.. more of why we haven’t yet gotten to global equity..


pride and shame are the *built in methods of coercion societies use to encourage certain types of behaviour in people.. **societal approval is a far more powerful tools of governance than military might..

*not natural

**still violence


rights .. and personal property

seems wrong convo.. distraction.. to getting back to us


communist manifesto: hard won, self acquired, self earned

i don’t get earning.. winning..

theses possessions only create conflict if they are scarce and deplete community resources until there si not equv property available for all..

sounds like commoning.. if you minus the – possessions..

and too.. if everyone is busy doing the thing they can’t not do.. gershenfeld sel


ownership always exists, unclaimed property belongs to the commons..

or.. ownership never exists.. if the commons/commoning is healthy.. ownership is irrelevant.. and cumbersome.. distracting..

in a system where essentials of life are provided for free and no need for people to perform *work that does not appeal to them, likely that few will elect to make maintenance of another’s assets their life’s work.. if maintenance of assets becomes sole responsibility of owner, excessive property ownership will quickly become a burden instead of a privilege..

i think a lot of things will become irrelevant.. but i also think.. we have no idea what *work would/wouldn’t appeal to us.. we have not idea what it’s like to be truly free.. to do whatever we want.. i think we’d be truly surprised/pleased at the things we’d ending up doing/being..


if would be far easier for a society to reach consensus on shared values and a social contract all supported if they were already arranged by affinity group. our current system of dividing people by land mass ensure we will never be able tot govern by consensus and must have the warring political parties and win/lose governance of rep or direct democracy..

this is what 2 convos would facil


copyrights/patents are econ tools which frequently do not reward the idea originator and need to be replaced w something that does..

why?  the reward for 7 bn.. is all of us free.. no other rewards.. please..


a massive and ever-expanding system of military, security, surveillance and imprisonment is clamped on top of society worldwide to prevent any reversion to our natural methods.. the unending violence and destruction in the world today is caused by our natural reaction to these constrictions..

so.. begs a nother way.. sans constrictions..


we now have the power to release the unnatural bindings that have us trapped in this horrible unnatural system of governance..

agreed.. but would include.. ie: approval/rights/measuring/property.. ness et al.. in that unnatural system..

if we allow that vacuum to be filled w same system under a diff name.. we will be repeating pattern of endless tyrannies..

i think if any trace of ie: approval/rights/measuring/property.. ness et al.. then same system w diff name..

to have governance by the people we need to have faith in each other w/in chaos..

exactly.. trust 100%.. assume good.. nationality: human .. not part\ial.. for (blank)’s sake

only way it/we will work

if we begin to look for and use the natural methods we already have and ignore the apparatus of dissociation, the former will grow and the latter will become obsolete..

indeed.. holmgren indigenous law.. begs mech to listen to and facil the chaos.. help us get back to listening deeply

chaotic methods do work to create social infrastructure if we are aware of what we are trying to build.

roots of healing.. maté basic needs..

deep/simple/open enough for all of us


so much good.. but also putting on frustrating book list.. thinking ie: approval econ et al.. is not going to cut a true alternative.. we gotta go .. no strings.. nothing to prove.. et al..

ie: hlb via 2 convos that io dance.. as the day..[aka: not part\ial.. for (blank)’s sake…]..  a nother way