greenhall – learn to learn

Jordan Greenhall – Pt 1: Deep Code: Learning How To Learn

p1 – 44 min


we can think about a thing we humans do.. civilization.. as a game


culture as collection of institutions and practices that collectively try to get our needs met.. we can think of that as a game.. invented

5 min – w/in context as culture as being a game.. deep code 1\ looks at current set .. in context of world as it is and is likely to move forward.. not adequate.. by design.. inexorably self terminating (daniel)

7 min – longer you wait for it to collapse.. more significant the (destruction).. we stick to old approaches that are failing.. so get a short term success.. but then hit rock bottom hard

8 min – deep code 2\ use this set of frameworks to design new civilization 1\ deal w new problems  2\ in context of being in relationship w old  3\ be able to navigate that criteria

a quiet revolution

9 min – deep code 3\ activate those designs.. what is urgent that we can do now..

10 min – relationship between giving and teaching is depth.. if i teach.. it’s deeper than giving.. you could go deeper still.. by teaching you how to invent fishing.. could go deeper still..

to get good at kind of problem we’re dealing with.. have to be able to go deep..

so let’s go deep enough ie: cure ios city

teaching is very surface (aka: not deep)

11 min – if unable to go that deep.. you’ll be making assumptions you don’t even know you’re making..t

black science of people/whales

everything humans have been doing since pre agri.. possibly 15 000 or more.. has to be examined deeply..t

affluence w/o abundance

so too.. from birth to say age 5.. the not yet scrambled ness.. and too.. those say.. born outside of civilization ness ie: higashida autism law

choices made say maybe 75 000 yrs ago have to be brought to light as to what those choices imply.. and then maybe unwound..

yeah. that.

black science of people/whales.. unwind the supposed to ness and the property ness et al

12 min – ie: physics.. what we typically do when trying to do something useful.. go to basis.. then leave untouched.. kuhn: sci paradigm as a bunch of kinds of fundamental assumptions.. many we don’t even know we made.. and are the basis upon which we then go about doing science..

13 min – ie: if you assume space and time are real/objective.. independent of things in them.. then put something in the universe.. ie: sphere.. in already existing time/space.. general relativity didn’t operate w/in those assumptions.. eisnstein thought.. what is space.. time..  he re considered those assumptions into a new concept..

14 min – we’re always operating on based of unconscious assumptions.. what deep code has done is realized a lot of the things that are challenging right now are challenging because of the assumptions..t

yeah ..whales in sea world..

15 min – let’s go deeper.. and keep going deeper .. until we get to something that is in fact.. deep enough

spot on..  ie: problem deep enough for 7bn to resonate w today

for constructing an actual/comprehensive civilization

perhaps not civilization.. global equity.. global community..  why are you using the word..civilization..? it’s like you’re wanting to set up another fake us.. (my beef is with all the – advanced ness written in the defn.. )

16 min – next layer (after teaching to invent fishing).. well.. it gets very simple.. because most of complicated ness is the stuff.. when you get below it gets very simple.. to..

simple enough ness

almost at the bottom (because the very bottom is difficult to communicate) .. can id a handfull of basic capacities:

17 min – 1\ discernment.. ie: effort as a kid of trying to raise one eyebrow w/o raising the other.. entering a space where you don’t have any idea what it would mean to be doing the right thing.. do all kinds of weird stuff.. no path.. have a sense of what you want.. but don’t know how.. entering a complete space of uncertainty.. and discernment is particular capacity of being able to *sense… that which is more in the direction from that which is less in the direction.. building deep feeling that has a way of orienting

*not yet scrambled.. begs.. 1 yr to be 5 ness

18 min – 2\ attunement..  but to do attunement i have to do the third which is coherence

attachment – gabor calls this parent bonding to child – attunement

19 min – 3\ coherence .. the degree to which you begin to be able to bring together a set of diff kinds of senses and actions that belong together.. grasp them as a whole/single phenom.. getting to precisely all that is necessary and precisely *none that is not necessary.. and **bringing into a kind of relationship.. that causes it to come together as a whole

*gupta roadblock law

**like leaping back/to meadows undisturbed ecosystem

20 min – ie: juggling.. can’t do discrete steps.. have to do as all happening as a single unit.. that is all a very tight relationship w each other

this is why we haven’t yet gotten to global equity.. has to be all of us.. and we haven’t been able to let go enough.. go deep enough.. for that to happen..

attunement now is the relationship between discernment and coherence where you’re able to increasingly able to use discernment in the context of given coherence.. to be able to achieve coherence..

21 min – interesting metaphor.. tuning radio.. 88.5 get noise.. then 88.9 can hear music.. then 90.. snaps into clarity.. you’re attuning..  antena is coherent

22 min – the way a child learns to stand.. control leg muscles.. awareness to which direction body is falling..  think of how hard it’s been to get robot to do that

perfect ie of this not being a mechanical problem..  this one ness.. this undisturbed ecosystem can’t be planned/designed/regulated/mechanized/copied.. it just is.. it emerges as what it is.. we have to trust that disorder (of say 7bn people following their whimsy – their own attunement et al – everyday) to be good for us – ie: antifragility

the process (of child standing up).. is having these sensitive relationships between sensing and acting that become entrained w each other until they have the space of coherence that now have an enormous amount of clarity

again.. why this begs we go back to ie: birth to say age 5.. the not yet scrambled ness.. before we scramble/school it up.. so that we can just be.. w/o all the trainings of all the supposed to‘s.. et al..

kids don’t think of all these steps like w have to tech a machine.. a great modeling of .. already in us ness..

let’s go that deep.. because that means no one has to spend their days getting what you’re talking about (jordan or whoever keeps trying to explain things).. and no one has to spend their days saying what you’re talking about.. we just all need time and space.. to listen.. deep enough.. to what’s already there.. everyday..

a simple message

23 min – 4\ clarity..  enter into clarity and bam.. you can hear it clearly.. the thing that is endeavoring to be learned suddenly becomes capable of being received.. w/o a whole lot of effort.. you’ve become an instrument that can receive that signal

holmgren indigenous law – we’ve always been that instrument.. we just got scrambled .. i’d say via our efforts to ie: civilize ourselves..

24 min – (added 5\ insight at 27 min) 6\ embodiment.. turn signal into something that you can easily access over and over again w less and less effort.. hard wire or *construct a set of habits around the set of skills that **you’ve now turned into a coherent whole

embodiment.. grokking ness

again.. why we can’t *construct/robotize/measure/teach ourselves..  why we have to just let go and be.. let go and listen.. to what’s already there and whole.. *rather than having to turn them into a whole

and.. why ai would serve us better if we saw it as ie: augmenting interconnectedness

as it could be

ie: to juggle is no longer a struggle.. to juggle is now a capacity that you have developed.. *you’ve now learned to fish.. now fishing is something you can do w less and less energy and in relationship to other kinds of things.. it becomes the basis for doing a whole new set of things.. now it becomes a skill/capacity that you can plug into another cycle up

dang.. i’m thinking that *was already in us.. i’m thinking this fits huge w holmgren indigenous law  (i don’t know – semantics ish) – i just think if we listen deeper .. ie: to nature.. it’s more of a dance.. (maybe like your own song).. than a learning..  just because how you’ve framed all this.. even learning sounds so mechanical.. algorithmic

ie: learning how to learn.. sounds crazy.. we’re born with that ability.. what we need to do is detox from all the scrambling.. and get back to our natural state of learning/being/doing.. in a natural state… ie: in an undisturbed ecosystem .. no one has to learn to learn (except ie: whales in sea world).. crazy how we’ve gotten this far

25 min – imagine the development of a child.. a child first has to differentiate in its visual field.. discern how to separate the blooming/buzzing confusion of all the shit that has to be in the world.. a new born infant.. literally.. there’s no way of knowing

whoa.. total disagree here.. have you studied Gabor Maté esp his scattered.. where maté not yet scrambled law comes in

i’m thinking this is a good explanation/observation .. and maybe helpful toward detox.. but the natural process of learning.. that’s innate.. makes this all just interesting info/insight.. but not needed..

26 min – so that cycle is the deepest basis of any kind of capacity building in any possible domain.. ie: fire; physics; relationships; parent; pee;.. those are the fundamental basics that take you from where you are to a higher level capacity.. from giving a fish to teaching to fish to teaching how to learn how to fish to the deep basis in all kinds of learning in any possible domain

27 min – this is philosophy of education and developmental psychology

28 min – because this is so deep.. it turns out to be relevant to whatever is going on to develop a significant degree of embodied capacity in these raw capacities.. this is the deep basis of learning itself.. you *now actually have the ability to learn in any context

*now..? we always have .. no? we just have been scrambling that

ie: in a world where things are moving and changing rapidly.. ie: learning how to be a plumber evaporates because ai is doing that..

ok.. so maybe you need this info.. these 6 steps.. to train tech to do it.. but again.. i don’t think humans need it.. i believe if 7bn of us are free enough to listen to our daily curiosity.. that will allow us to learn/hear all we need..

cure ios city – as cure/detox.. deep enough

as things are changing rapidly you actually need to be able to have a deeper basis for relationship w the environ that you’re operating in .. because that basis is less subject to the assistitudes (?) of superficial change.. these particular characteristics because they are in fact the deepest basis in learning are that.. if you build masterful skill ful ness in this cycle.. meaning you build mastery of discernment..attunement.. et al..  then you are fully *prepared to respond to any possible set of circumstances in your environ

thinking this is deeper.. holmgren indigenous law .. no 6 steps/parts.. just listen.. *no prep

29 min – meaning that.. if you find yourself suddenly on mars and everybody is gone and you have no idea what to do and you’re by yourself.. you have the raw tool kit from which to build the tools.. to respond to what is happening.. so it’s the strongest you can be.. the most adapt

yeah.. i think we all already have w/in us that raw tool kit.. from the get go

maybe you’re needing the 6 to get to some cool.. but artificial goal..  that’s fine.. it’s just not needed.. and is (like school and work – aka: supposed to ness) clouding our ability to be ourselves.. and ie: antifragile

30 min – in ed.. we give people the basis of skills.. we do not give people the basis of learning.. have not been trained in the deep basis that would allow them to self teach anything

dang man.. i think we’re born w that.. have you read any Peter Gray..?

32 min – (interviewer): artistic expression on an app

33 min – things that are the deepest are the things that are going to last.. so what i’ve found.. this is not just higher ground.. it is the highest ground.. there is no where else to go to be more *safe.. this is basis on which everything else derives

dang..  we’re safest if we’re all free.. to not worry about safeness..

so how do you see these 6 playing out..? school for them.. how do you make sure everybody has access to them if they’re not something already in us..

i hope you have a good answer/take on this.. (or that i’m misunderstanding you).. otherwise.. we’re back to square one.. building a curriculum (aka: supposed to list)

and maybe even more to the point.. *safe from what..?

33 min – another piece that is very interesting.. because it is so foundational.. .it also is related to more kinds of things ie: useful skills or ways of providing value.. so moving from being a truck driver to a software programmer or a chef

dang.. how you got here (ie: going deeper).. so spot on.. where you jumped off.. not quite deep enough (in my thinking – and i could be all wet of course)

value is being some kind of employee..?

i see (just in case you wonder) value as eudaimonia.. that’s the value each one of us needs/craves.. and that’s the value the world needs .. for each one of us to be ourselves.. and the art/energy that comes from that (ie:the energy of 7bn alive people..aka: eudaimoniative surplus).. is the kind of value.. the world needs most

but these things are at the bottom of everything.. so.. how to be in good relationship w self.. how to be a good friend.. how to be a good parent.. how to make choices about what to eat.. so not just econ value.. but primordial value.. so best things (these 6) to have in your portfolio.. things you’re good at

i’d say these to are the basics: maté basic needs.. no portfolio.. nothing to prove

34 min – a deep insight that is not very well shared is that pace of change matters.. if things changing slowly.. ok to have just surface level skills.. ie: being able to grow yams.. ok to just have those rituals passed down.. w/o having to grow deeper basis to ie: grow wheat.. but if things are changing.. and the faster they’re changing.. the deeper you have to go.. so because we’re in a space where accelerating change is  a primary characteristic.. we’re also in a space where depth is a primary characteristic


how about we just rapid prototyping to slow..  (mostly meaning.. i’m thinking that the things you’re saying are going fast.. become irrelevant when you go deep enough)

36 min – and now.. you just brought into my mind.. not sure how.. maybe the next major move.. which is.. we’ve now been talking about all of this from the pov of a single person.. but everything we’ve been talking about is perfectly/exactly relevant in the context of groups of people.. in fact going down also.. to cells..

37 min – the relationship itself has a certain kind of agency/discernment that neither of you holds completely.. there’s a wholeness to it.. relationships builds own capacities.. ie: jazz band.. synergistic.. emergent.. coming togetherness.. to do something not available in any distinct individual.. have to build all 6 as a whole..  which allows you to go out and do something.. like play jazz well.. that’s another important thing

important to who..? who’s deciding what ‘play jazz well’ means.. john cage..?

39 min – what we’re describing.. can be described as the characteristics of sovereignty

ugh.. ie: sovereignty

sovereignty is oblique.. in order to achieve sovereignty one *must use these particular capacities in the domain that you’re considering

*must ness.. all i hear is

it is becoming increasingly clear.. that property can and must be stripped of itssovereign character and transformed into the common. sovereignty

*sovereignty is the measure of a relationship between one’s capacity and the conditions that one is in..

i see *measuring as a disruption to (or symptom of) an undisturbed ecosystem

40 min – sovereignty.. i can keep doing it w/o losing my ability to keep doing it.. from one domain of juggling to another (juggling while riding) i feel like there’s a distinction between sovereignty and mastery

41 min – movement from skill ful ness to art ful ness has to do w that transition into embodiment’ve reached an ability in the first 4 that your *ability to access this level (#5) of insight.. has moved into a space of being easy and enduring larger and larger challenges..

and see..i think we embodiment comes first.. i think it’s all art.. diff degrees of art.. of us

i’m wondering if we’re back to the superficial being the complicated..

42 min – so what i can say now is that your sovereignty.. that artful ness.. your sovereignty in this particular domain.. has actually expanded.. your ability to do has expanded..

and mastery .. when you’re actually able to use this capacity to build further capacity under duress under harder domains

sounds like antifragility.. which i believe we already have – well – in our natural state – obviously not most of us (intoxicateds) today

so the arch from skillfulness to artfulness to mastery.. really lives very much on this learning loop.. sovereignty comes at it obliquely .. from the pov of .. in a given circumstance/moment.. what is the relationship between your capacity and the environ you’re in .. so .. if you have achieved mastery.. then also you will be sovereign.. at the level of your mastery

ie: mastery and so sovereignty in subdomain of juggling.. sovereignty is ability with which you are in.. will use my mastery (many dimensions) in that process

(interviewer): so to summarize.. mastery is about skillfulness and understanding of certain domain.. and sovereignty is ability to make choices in response to what’s happening..

yes.. very nice..


Jordan Greenhall – Pt 2: Deep Code: Learning How To Learn

p2 – 51 min


3 min – point of antenna ie.. if trying to hear music and ad 89.9.. have to try hard to hear small amt of music.. but if turn ever so slightly more..effortless to hear all of the music..  if you have  choice between tuning your instrument or trying to use your instrument hard.. tune your instrument..  tune to thing being considered

ie: ab w guitar.. gave up an tuned it to itself..

6 min – become sovereign in the domain of sense making

8 min – on getting to attunement in listening.. not to be right but to listen

26 min – building that (a means for people to learn 6 characteristics) is one of the things deep code is working on

28 min – a lot of this can’t be done by yourself.. so finding others to be in this space with

29 min – don’t have to be good at it.. exploring..

30 min – learn something new.. and be aware of how you are yourself learning something new.. impossible to categorically share

learning new things for the purpose of being skillful to building in yourself.. what you do/use to learn new things

33 mi – the key isn’t where you are now.. the key is .. where you are now will you choose to get better

who’s deciding what better is..?

35 min – everybody has to figure this out for themselves.. but what we can do.. is get out of other people’s way

37 min – this is why dr peterson is not full of shit.. turns out 98% of humanity has most of the basics out of whack (after saying.. easy steps you can take to make your body more ready.. if an addict quit.. if eating bad eat healthy.. et al).. can get a huge amount of ground by doing a very small number of things well.. ie: clean your room..take long hanging fruit. improves ability to take next step.. he knows how hard it is for a human being to help another human being improve his own sovereignty..


39 min – good book – man’s search for meaning

41 min – everyone everywhere has means to access this journey right now.. most helpful is good friends.. 3-5 who can be friends w self.. and now friends w each other.. can do anything

43 min – almost nobody has any meaningful skill for this.. in this new game.. daniel.. dali lama.. this is a big game.. we’re all at level one.. almost every body else is in same place..

44 min – convey in deed/act that you fully recognize that as a parent you are in relationship w a soul that is as sovereign as yours… that soul is as fully realized as yours..

46 min – parenting is precisely the right metaphor

50 min – have to have enormous humility in own capacity and simultaneously commitment to doing best you can.. and self compassion