brian eno

brian eno.png

Steven Johnson interviews Brian:

https://howwegettonext.com/in-conversation-with-brian-eno-443d702e261#.snh7a5ns9

on punchlines:

i don’t think art has anything intrinsically.. i think we create the value..

i think when something’s exciting to you.. what’s exciting is you’re hearing the latest sentence in a conversation you’ve been having all your life…

when i started making ambient music… the first things reviewers noticed is everything that was missing.. (beat, chords, words) .. all it had was space.. so what it was missing.. and therefore what it had..

on art

art – everything that is the stylist overview of the things you do..

why do we do it…

on cave art.. why did they do it.. and why did people appreciate it..

seems always.. people who can do that are valued/treasured.. in our society.. they’re paid a lot of money.. which is the only way we express value..

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Scott Rosenberg‘s at authors at google for his book – dreaming in code (not available on overdrive) – 2007

35 min – Brian Eno – treating entities as media..art likes to see what other worlds are possible..

eno s law

a nother way

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also referenced (lately) in tedx on his cards – ie: have musicians change instruments..

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find/follow Brian:

about him but not him.. he doesn’t have a twitter account:

link twitter

http://brian-eno.net/reissues/

wikipedia small

Brian Peter George St. John le Baptiste de la Salle Eno, RDI (/ˈn/; born 15 May 1948 and originally christened Brian Peter George Eno), professionally known as Brian Eno or simply Eno, is an English musician, composer, record producer, singer, and visual artist, known as one of the principal innovators of ambient music.

Eno was a student of Roy Ascott on his Ground course at Ipswich Civic College. He then studied at Colchester Institute art school in Essex, England, taking inspiration from minimalist painting. During his time on the art course at the Institute, he also gained experience in playing and making music through teaching sessions held in the adjacent music school. He joined the band Roxy Music as synthesiser player in the early 1970s. Roxy Music’s success in the glam rock scene came quickly, but Eno soon became tired of touring and of conflicts with lead singer Bryan Ferry.

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Brian Eno Recommends Doing Nothing To Get Good Ideas by @bruces https://t.co/zmDxHXzCY8https://t.co/QG8x6eSpIC

Original Tweet: https://twitter.com/dark_shark/status/744856297980362752

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film: in the ocean

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via Rutger share on fb:

great ideas articulated by individuals.. nearly always generated by community.. what i see as the waste is the waste we make of that coop intelligence

genius is process of singling out certain people.. whenever look at any of them.. see.. they lived/drew from flourishing scene.. all those people you call genius (creative intelligence of individual) sat in the middle of scenius (creative intelligence of a community)…

scenius

what that means is:

1\ understanding that all people are born unequal.. so everybody has a set of particular/unique set of gifts/talents

2\ intelligence is generated by communities…

biggest obstacle to that.. is that people have to earn a living..

earn a living ness

my first message to people.. try to not get a (paying) job.. leave yourself so that you are in charge of your time..

luxury ness..

obstacle: most people aren’t in a position to do that..

i want to do anything to work toward a future where everybody is in a position to do that..

let’s try this: a nother way..

ie: hosting-life-bits via self-talk as data.. as the day..

bi – is closest i’ve heard to a future i’d like to live in.

perhaps bi ness as a temp/placebo.. to no money.. no measuring of transactions.. et al..

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DiEM25 Madrid (@diem25madrid) tweeted at 4:40 AM on Wed, Nov 09, 2016:
“El triunfo de #Trump es una llamada para despertarnos. Me alegra que #DiEM25 esté despierto”- Brian Eno @dark_shark https://t.co/rVt18IfPdw
(https://twitter.com/diem25madrid/status/796316515142406144?s=03)

Trump is a wake up call. I am glad DiEM25 is awake – Brian Eno

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https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/jan/23/brian-eno-not-interested-in-talking-about-me-reflection

Brian Eno: ‘We’ve been in decline for 40 years – Trump is a chance to rethink

The revered producer has been at the centre of pop since the days of Roxy Music. But don’t ask him about the past – he’s more interested in how to reorder society

Eno the activist, tirelessly campaigning for a fairer world; and Eno the philosopher, endlessly thinking of ways in which to bring this new world about.

I remember him coming home from work and sitting at the table; my mother had just put the food down and he fell forward, asleep. I thought even if I have to turn to crime, I won’t get a job; the horror of being that exhausted and doing your work just to keep things going; the lack of freedom in your life.”

I’m interested in the idea of generative music as a sort of model for how society or politics could work.

It is possible to have a society that doesn’t have pre-existing rules and structures.

indeed.. a nother way..

ie: hosting-life-bits via self-talk as data.. as the day..

And you can use the social structures of bands, theatre groups, dance groups, all the things we now call culture. You can say: ‘Well, it works here. Why shouldn’t it work elsewhere?’

My feeling about Brexit was not anger at anybody else, it was anger at myself for not realising what was going on.

Just imagine if Hillary Clinton had won and we’d been business as usual, the whole structure she’d inherited, the whole Clinton family myth….with Trump, there’s a chance of a proper crash, and a chance to really rethink.”

One of the things you can get from music is surrender. From a lot of art, what you’re saying is: ‘Let it happen to me. I’m going to let myself be out of control. I’m going to let something else take over me.’” And that’s what he wants to happen with this music.

What I want to do is make situations where we’re all slightly at sea because

people make their best work when they are alert, and alertness comes at the moment when you feel you’re on the edge of being out of control. You’re not alert when you’re settled and you know exactly what you’re doing.

simple mech to facil chaos of 7bn slightly at sea

I really don’t want to spend the rest of my life – I’m now 68, so I might have another 15 to 20 years left – talking about my history. So, given the little time I’ve got left on this planet, I would really love to focus on some of the new things I’m doing.”

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@dark_shark

Life Lessons With Brian Eno: In conversation at Cecil Sharp House, London on February 21, 2017 via @TheSchoolOfLife theschooloflife.com/london/shop/li…

Inequality eats away at the heart of a society, breeding disdain, resentment, envy, suspicion, bullying, arrogance and callousness. If we want any decent kind of future we have to push away from that – Brian

He is a left-field avant garde maverick who helped make U2 and Coldplay two of the biggest bands on the planet; a perfectionist who spends weeks fine-tuning systems and modifying rules to create music that can never be repeated. His Oblique Strategies provided a framework that helps artists around the world get unblocked and find new and ingenious solutions to their creative troubles.

un-algo

indigenous us

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via rt by David (video/panel from 2015)

小林拓音 TakuneKOBAYASHI (@takunekobayashi) tweeted at 11:17 PM – 10 Dec 2015 :

イーノ、グレーバー、コッポラの会合。そのときの映像がYouTubeに。
Basic Income: How do we get there? Brian Eno, David Graeber and Frances Coppola https://t.co/LPuhmPqYDa(http://twitter.com/takunekobayashi/status/675197714653700096?s=17)

5 min – brian: subject that interests me most.. i think about most.. is waste.. of human potential.. how many people are not using themselves well… because they can’t.. circumstances don’t encourage them to do so .. no demand for what they can offer

bi as temp placebo.. fake

6 min – brian: plenty of ayn rand followers in high places.. ie: in silicon valley.. ayn: ‘any group is only a number of individuals.. if any civilization is to survive.. it’s the reality of altruism that men have to reject..’… to me.. this is a kind of naive darwinism that doesn’t allow for the fact that we aren’t unconscious organisms.. we’re conscious.. as soon as consciousness enters the picture.. darwinism doesn’t work any more…even darwin would agree with that .. but people like ayn rand didn’t actually get/read that part of the book

7 min – brian: the randian approach is that there are great individuals who distinguish themselves.. push forward.. and then pull the rest of humanity.. the rest of humanity is a kind of relatively inert working/serving class.. and there are a few people thru willpower and intellect and whatever genes they end up with.. pull the rest of us.. this is almost the opposite of what i think.. that although great new ideas are usually articulated by individuals.. they’re nearly always generated by communities..

8 min – brian: i think what i see as the waste.. is the waste we make of that possibility of cooperative intelligence..

ie: hosting-life-bits via self-talk as data.. as the day..

i made a word for this a long time ago.. genius: process of singling out people in our industry and saying.. those are the important ones.. whenever you look at any of those artists.. you find they lived and drew from a very very active flourishing cultural scene.. and they were only one of the elements in that scene..ie: aware of what others are doing.. picking out.. distilling.. shuffling it..  all these people called genius actually sat in the middle of something i call scenius.. genius is creative intelligence of an individual..  scenius is the creative intelligence of a community.. what i want to see is more attention given to that possibility.. of creative behavior

10 min – brian: so opp of ayn randianism.. the understanding that 1\ all people are born unequal..so everybody has a unique set of gifts/talents.. 2\ intelligence is generated by communities.. by cooperation of some kind..

the biggest obstacle to that at the moment is that people have to earn a living..

earn a living.. making up money..

i’m often asked to give a talk at unis and often not asked back.. because i talk that you shouldn’t have a job.. and profs first task is to smooth you into a job.. that means..

11 min – brian: try to leave yourself in the position where you do the things you want to do and take max advantage of your possibilities.. and most people aren’t in the positions to do that.. i want to do anything to work to future where everybody is in position to do that..

in terms of bi.. i probably know less about subject than anyone else here .. but what i do know is that the concept is the closest thing i’ve heard to achieving the kind of future that i would like to live in

so let’s try it (bi) as temp placebo.. ie: short bp

14 min – frances: a growing waste.. by being forced to earn a living.. impoverishing not only them… but us as a society .. my piece.. the change of nature of work

16 min – frances: if we can automate production of needs.. and make sure proceeds get equally distributed.. so people have means to live

or what if we just say.. bunk.. to proceeds ness

earn a living.. making up money..

22 min – david: most people like anarchist ideas more than the like the word

23 min – david: i realized.. most white collar workers exist to make workers feel bad about themselves.. to feel you’re inadequate.. undeserving..

24 min – david: i finally came to the conclusion that financialization and bureaucratization are the same thing..  ie: the govt is the bank..

graeber f&b same law

25 min – david: this B creating jobs telling you that value comes from paperwork rather than from anything anyone actually does..

26 min – david: increasingly more time assessing what it is you’re doing than doing it.. all forms of paperwork.. value thru paperwork.. and finance is just the peak of it.. people w most elab paperwork… how do we just get rid of these

27 min – david: every single time .. try to get rid of red tape, B, et al.. you end up with more regulation.. more paperwork.. and more bureaucrats.. ie: 25% more bureaucrats in russia right now then there were under soviet union… so that’s what liberal reforms always do… so what would be a left wing position that would be anti bureaucratic.. we need to grab this.. answer is pretty obvious.. fire all those guys and give everyone same amt of money

or… fire money as well

28 min – david: it’s based on a re assessment of the nature of work… comes to this..really look at what it is that is valuable..meaningful about the things we do everyday..

30 min – david: the thing that people in power fear the most is people that have basic security and time

33 min – david: focus on labor intermingled with focus on production.. when in fact most labor is not productive.. most labor isn’t about making things.. it’s about keeping things the same.. ie: an environment where things can grow.. caregiving.. caretaking..

interpretive labor

35 min – david: what makes work valuable.. is a care for other people.. it benefits people.. and nobody can decide how that’s going other than the people doing it

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16 min – brian: i want to be as economical as i can – minarchism
23 min – brian: i work intuitively.. just from my ears.. then i reflect on if it was good or not.. in most of life today.. can’t do that.. have to declare first what you are doing.. people who are accountable.. forced into making over specific statements…
24 min – brian: and then .. you change your mind.. well of course you do.. otherwise neglecting new evidence…

25 min – brian: we ought to expect in every project .. a changing of mind.. the redignifying of intuition in public life.. rather than manifestos that propel us into icebergs..

35 min – brian: how to maintain a private space where you can embarrass yourself

gershenfeld sel

38 min – Evgeny: as if we just fix privacy problems everything else goes away.. sooner or later will fix the privacy problem thru commodification..  ai now run by 5 american co’s and one chinese… what i don’t want to happen is winning the privacy fight and losing everything else
44 min – Evgeny: how is it we fell for this deal.. that we surrendered things of value.. lead into bi
42 min – brian: a new issue..a story we don’t really know.. ai ness/data
46 min – Brian: all relatives brilliant in diff ways.. but all in traps.. because poor.. no freedom to experiment.. to move away from the postman job they had..
48 min – Brian: i had a real stroke of luck..  ie: after free art school.. govt paid for me.. essentially bi.. to be on dole for a year.. could try being an artist.. i knew if i had a job i wouldn’t become an artist.. because i’d be paying rent et al.. then i joined a band and everything worked out fine
49 min – Brian: the more i realize it though.. the luck i had then.. is not available to people now
51 min – Brian: noticed in last 20 yrs.. isn’t how world is anymore
was it ever..? for everyone..?
Brian: most important thing about bi.. it stops life being completely precarious for people..
52 min – Brian: on ideas forming because relatives happen to give money.. to really level playing field.. to make it possible for all to have chance to make an experiment.. have to have a safety net of some kind..
53 min – Brian: growing up seeing so much creativity wasted.. and now.. living in world where we need as much creativity as we can get.. we really need everybody to be contributing.. bi seems to be the most obvious and simple solution...
imagining a nother simpler way .. that doesn’t spend energy on B/measuring of transactions ness.. bi would still compromise us.. because still have the measure ness messing with value/life/eudaimonia ness
57 min – Brian: on rich expecting to get something back from bi.. has to start w ed system.. tragedy w ed.. not talking about things happening now.. understanding how big systems working.. ways of engaging children in new way.. my theory.. start with their lives.. use that as basis of ed..
1:09 – Brian: on confirmation bias.. internet and better w/more info.. but because of confirmation bias.. can confirm anything… makes conspiracy theories very easy/interesting.. we have to be very very alert to this.. fake news is very much this..
1:14 – Brian: i don’t know and i hope that this free time doesn’t translate into a new kind of consumerism.. but a new kind of communalism… ie: older people active because they’re comparatively rich.. i want to make it so everyone can go to tango classes if they want to.. a really diff kind of political engagement…

1:20 – Evgeny: fake news is not the problem.. way to get rid of fake news.. limit the effects.. is to slow down their distribution.. opp of what drives social media.. going for fast clicks.. get entire publishing system off drug of advertising.. would slow down fake news.. the discussion should be about creating that alt platform..

1:30 – Brian: early stages of music.. et al.. a lot of experimentation.. then period of people realizing.. what the market wants.. digestion.. that lasts a long time..

1:34 – Brian: when people nostalgic for the 60s.. it’s for the conversations.. not the music

Brian: i don’t have a twitter account..

oy

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It’s Basic Income (@itsbasicincome) tweeted at 6:15 AM – 21 Feb 2018 :

“Basic income is a radical notion. It seems to question the ‘natural order’ of things. But *the natural order is just what we’ve become used to..’ as written by #BrianEno in our book ‘It’s Basic Income’ that publishes in 2 weeks! Buy yours now: https://t.co/y5yBRSAmXK #basicincome (http://twitter.com/itsbasicincome/status/966300405897547778?s=17)

like thinking we need money at all.. let’s try ubi as temp placebo to detox ourselves from money/measuring-transactions

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lisagansky (@instigating) tweeted at 6:16 AM – 8 Oct 2018 :
Brian Eno (brill) in conversation. A long view of #design #cities & us. Ht @stewartbrand @longnow @otherlab @OpenROV @tabithagold @njbowden @javicreus @mbauwens @imogenheap @hanson_simon @TinHangLiu @AlbertCanig @billyparish @NancyPfundDBL https://t.co/QJAtE4NcAJ (http://twitter.com/instigating/status/1049272233758285824?s=17)

1 hr 25 min

brian starts at 7 min

8 min – 3 mn palace in middle of worst part of ny in 78.. when i asked how she liked it here.. she meant something diff than i did.. she meant.. everything i could lock up.. she lived in this idealic bubble.. and nothing else existed

10 min – for me.. the here meant the neighborhood.. the city.. the country

if you said to people what do you do.. they’s say what they do this month.. not long term.. so i came up with thinking.. that they lived in a small here and a short now

11 min – so i started thinking about the long now.. what would it be like to live like what you do now resonates for a very very long time.. critical.. now.. as creatures w such power.. yet we seem more like the lady.. less and less responsibility

13 min – the effect has been to make the most dramatic news.. the news..

very serious long term things happening.. ie: climate change.. should be headline everyday.. that’s the big story

14 min – have to get people to accept slowing down a bit.. a lower rate of stimulus.. that’s what it’s about.. we’re addicted to stimulus.. snacking and never having a meal

rapid prototyping to slow

17 min – building a building to last 15 yrs.. rather than longer.. because land is worth more..

20 min – stewart brand (founder of long now) – you don’t finish a building.. you start it.. that’s goes for me w music as well

half a house ness

21 min – many things that should exist at slower levels of change (govt, culture).. have been accelerated.. ie: politics on twitter

22 min – (finn) – the question for me.. who’s thinking about those slower gears.. to me.. bureaucrat or planner..

ugh

@commonoffice

public practice: http://www.publicpractice.org.uk/

23 min – yeah.. we’ve decided we like bureaucrats

24 min – i’ve always thought law was one of the great achievements of human kind.. actually work out ways of agreeing.. and enforcing..  it’s an incredible achievement.. it’s like a huge building

ugh.. too much

we can do the longer now w/o that

25 min – if you want people to think long term.. you have to make them comfortable

26 min – mariana’s the entrepreneurial state – most of things we think were results of one money.. were results of commandeering public money.. rather than a few brilliant people.. turns out amazing ideas aren’t out of one person’s head – ‘good ideas are articulated by one person but imagined by a community’ – quoting myself

mariana

28 min – scenius ness – intelligence of the whole community

scenius

33 min – richard sennett diagram of le corbusiers future city (https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Le-Corbusiers-Radiant-City-the-city-of-tomorrow-1924-5-The-unrealized-utopian-project_fig5_300146541) from essence of treating people like individuals.. rather than as members of communities

richard

34 min – finn: richard talks about in that book of the importance of complexity.. ambiguity.. in the city.. so the way you use rules.. to generate music.. and ways planners could use that for cities

35 min – generative music is an idea that instead of designing a piece of music in full detail.. how you imagine it in the past.. piece is in pre existence.. like an architect’s plan..

generative music

instead of that .. imagine a piece of music where you set in motion a few rules.. and give a few possible behaviors.. and then see what happens when they combine.. t

36 min – ie: first piece that worked like this.. terry riley’s in c [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNi0bukYRnA] any group of instruments can play it.. every player plays same thing.. but each player plays thru at own speed..  ie: move to bar 2 whenever you feel like it.. ie: middle of piece 20 or 30 diff musical statements going on together..  simple.. every performance is diff

38 min – instead of writing down how you wanted this piece to be.. you gave the performers a toolkit.. just use these and work you way thru it.. everyone has to end on same bar.. starts same.. diff.. unison at end..

in architecture.. precise plan.. but this is more like gardening.. every time.. every year.. diff.. so a diff vision for what art could be like..

39 min – finn: to me that’s the diff of architecture (exploiting opps) and good planning (creating opps).. enjoying the unexpected..

much like tech as it could be.. w/2 convers as infra

40 min – i think a lot of old cities are like that..  they’re so idiosyncratic.. t

imagine.. in the city.. as the day.. via idio-jargon/self-talk as data

that’s the point i think.. the complexity of the forces have molded the place.. if the only force is le corbusier’s brain (from richard at 33 min) .. then you get something as simplistic as that..  but usually in old cities.. there’s such a multitude of forces.. ie: where is sewer, church, stage coach.. pre existing conditions that give rise to what people do.. opposite of what corbusier’s doing where he’s trying to work on tabula rasa.. terrible architect..

41 min – architects shouldn’t be able to do anything (or anything alone) till they’re 50..

finn: you’re taught in architecture school.. to distrust the idea of compromise.. bureaucracy negative.. a watering down..

42 min – something that’s always fascinated me about rules..  ie: all regulations of contemporary housing..  and we applied it to one of corbueir’s homes.. what would happen .. resulted as a suburban semi attached home

? so – what are you saying..?

45 min – we talked about long now and the wider we (scenius).. but missed the bigger here

i missed a chance to beat ayn rand over head.. probably most influential philosopher of 20th cent.. atlas shrug.. big influence of neoliberals.. libertarians.. adored by alan greenspan and a lot of trump people.. all about the primacy fo the individual.. ie: let strong willed empowered.. individuals ..do their own thing.. ie: ‘altruism is evil’.. right in there w margaret thatcher.. ie: no such thing as society.. same thing as socialism. so same thing as totalitarianism.. both influenced by fredrich heyek.. rand still exerts very powerful influence.. this simplistic individualism.. held up by few shaky.. quasi religious theories.. ie: invisible hand.. unfetter markets will produce good results for rest of us.. they all say.. it was a good idea.. you just didn’t do it right..  2nd idea is trickle down.. let richest get really rich..

49 min – book just out by michelle geldhan – about that happens when people feel insecure.. which more and more people are doing now

50 min – in all sorts of ways things seem to be eroding.. so this book.. what happens to people’s minds when in situation.. when see fear rather than hope.. 1\people attracted to authoritarianism.. they want people who say they know what they’re doing.. even if they don’t.. so get this move toward wanting to know how everything is arranged.. very much a result of feeling threatened

entropy ness

51 min – can only get people to work in community by hope or fear.. and they’ve given up on hope

52 min – the gated community is the perfect expression of this

53 min – some good news..  new cohort.. most women and many economists..

listen deeper

starting to realize solution to cul-de-sac.. not found by narrowing vision.. but by expanding it ie: kate raworth.. doughnut econ: classical econ sees 1\indivdual and 2\ state mediated by market.. socialism emphasizes state.. capitalism the individual..

kate says.. that’s an impoverished picture..  rather.. we use.. everything that isn’t us.. as the resource.. but because it doesn’t have a price tag to it.. we don’t include it

kate and doughnut econ

55 min – ie: clean air doesn’t come w a price tag.. care isn’t monetized

caring labor

56 min – kate is saying a much bigger dynamic.. so she and mariana and.. and..  are starting to think about economics.. it’s everything really.. i think they are starting to reconceive a different way of thinking about the world..

58 min – q&a

1:00 – systems of non dictatorial.. are mostly scandinavian.. it’s interesting that we don’t learn from them.. ie: finland ed.. why doesn’t anyone else copy them

because it’s not enough.. today.. they’re still doing school

1:01 – dictators historically has never worked really well

so why school?

ie: invited or invented ness

1:03 – if we look at the built environ.. a lot of the things we love grew from people crashing together and making things.. ie: place in spain.. constantly in convo when no traffic signals..

naked streets ness

1:06 – reading from manifesto: public planning only works when the public plan.. we believe in giving citizens the knowledge and tools to shape their environ

that sounds like school.. what we need more is spaces of permission w nothing to prove.. and whatever emerges from that cure ios city .. from that total freedom.. that total letting go.. is what we’d crave.. is what would work .. (rather than giving people knowledge and tools)

1:12 – i’ve for years been wondering why the interfaces of computers are designed to reduce us to a level of stupidity.. we’re incredible fine machines and it translates into (typing on a keyboard) this idiotic action.. between all this intelligence physical/mental.. and all that intelligence (machine) in the boxes.. tap tap tap.. a complete design failure

begs self-talk as data and tech that listens to all of it.. all of us.. everyday..  ie: tech as it could be..

1:15 – it matters to me to know terri riley was made in that way..what is pleasurable in art becomes thinkable in life.. when find ourselves enjoying something (music) not thru classical.. a piece comes into being afresh each time w simple set of instructions.. when know that’s possible in music.. start to wonder if it might be possible in rest of life as well.. piece of music like a little lab experiment.. this process of relating how something comes into being.. becomes part of the message of the place.. we’re very conscious of process

1:18 – q from mariana – does finance matter.. because it’s these private rich guys who have the means to finance the long now.. did you and stewart talk about how to finance long now clock.. because not financed by bezo/amazon

1:21 – bezos was w us in the beginning.. had just started amazon.. and i thought it was a crackpot idea.. he was looking for investment..  he expressed an interest early on in the clock of the long now.. clock in texas for next 10 000 years..  now (w all that’s happening w amazon employees et al) .. i find that very embarrassing.. as regards wealthy people spending money on this.. that’s ok.. if they pay taxes..  we should make it a point of social kudos to be a proper tax payer..

1:26 – you have to leave space.. you have to not finish your project..  if you make things that are permeable.. people are very creative.. we just don’t often recognize it as creativity.. all people are creative all the time.. you have to leave the opening.. ie: not use materials that they can’t change.. ie: stewart – if build w concrete vs plaster

half a house ness

1:27 – creating that space doesn’t happen thru negligence or turning back.. need to create a framework for freedom

well.. kind of

the point of the planner is to stop the invasion of capitalism.. its way is monetizing it..

1:28 – q: how long will it take to get there  finn: not an ending..

1:29 – finn: we need to work against people thinking selfishly.. kind of like spring cleaning .. a force of entropy.. and that’s why we need bureaucrats in the public service

entropy ness sand B – unless we call 2 convers.. B.. anything more is too much

1:30 – we are on the way already.. we’re also on way to total destruction.. which do we get to first.. all these books are about systems thinking.. visualizing the whole thing as an ecosystem of ideas

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