eno & varoufakis

april 2020 – 1 hr video – Brian Eno in conversation with Yanis Varoufakis: Reflecting on our Post-Virus World | DiEM25 TV

brian and yanis


“Brian Eno in conversation with Yanis Varoufakis: Reflecting on our Post-Virus World | DiEM25 TV” https://t.co/NfhoC7WyQQ
Original Tweet: https://twitter.com/mbauwens/status/1246466269320302592



y: this virus revealed the true nature of politics: who has the power to do what to whom..t

y: how will this change society.. is there a realistic utopian vision society after the virus

brian – co founder of diem25


3 min – (on vision worth fighting for) b: there’s been a relief amongst people that they can be nice to each other again – 5 yrs at each other’s throats.. all in this together.. delighted to be nice to each other.. rediscovering that we like each other’s company..

5 min – b: when came up with the ‘essential workers’.. they are the people we don’t pay very much.. a recognition that carers are the people who keep society running.. doesn’t matter if banks disappear for a year.. but if nurses disappear we’d notice in a day

7 min -b: facing now an interesting moment.. designing future of civilization.. things we pursue in next few months will persist for a very long time ie: residual powers from 9 11 in airports are still in place

8 min – b: what we risk now is the voluntary..

9 min – b: the dialogue between freedom and security.. very difficult to step back from security.. generally civilization tries to gather more security

gershenfeld something else law

11 min – b: one way to form consensus is to create a threat big enough for everyone to want to agree.. war is a very good way of doing that.. used by rulers who feel they’re threatened.. suddenly public is unified.. but to have a war you need an enemy

consensus ness

12 min – b: this is first time in history we’ve declared war on an organism.. rna of virus

b: i believe in those constraints right now.. but i worry that they become normal.. the way we live

13 min – b: so now to the positive aspect.. what kind of future could we imagine.. hoping that the skills that people are learning in these few months: sociability.. being together.. working w each other.. getting around the huge gap left by conventional industries.. i hope those skills will become part of the way we build the future

b: richard sennett said last night: ‘solidarity is a craft’.. something we have to work/practice at.. doesn’t happen automatically.. ‘i don’t think solidarity is the product of rage/anger’.. we also need reflection, care, thinking.. *what could we do together now that we could never do before..t


*augment our interconnectedness.. via tech as it could be..

20 min – b: mass media is very good at creating vague feelings

questions from audience

will this virus change the normal

21 min – b: i think we’re facing the end of normal for a while.. yes.. i have no idea what the future is going to be like.. i know what i hope for and i know what i fear.. i think the end of normal has already happened.. ie: how many business (and thus flights) mtgs are not going to happen because of this

25 min – b: our mission.. particularly artists.. is to make sure that doesn’t happen (go back to status quo).. artists.. in a way.. provide material for imagining diff futures.. art is a way of trying to experience what it would be like to live in a diff world

and if we were all free.. we’d find.. we’re all artists.. so..

let’s do this firstfree art-ists.

for (blank)’s sake

a nother way

b: it’s all about what you do when you make art.. gives you a chance to experience another set of relationships/values/so-on..  we’ve really got to start working on this now.. we have a window..  why was it wonderful..? for only time in lives.. they felt together and belonging.. people love/miss that feeling.. when they don’t have it they feel it by ie: owning stuff.. it’s a surrogate for actually being part of something meaningful

brown belonging law.. maté basic needs.. almaas holes law

27 min – b: what we have to keep telling is what happened in this time that was wonderful and unique

imagine if instead of telling.. we freed us all up to keep doing it..

28 min – y: the beauty of the oppression.. is you can recognize the enemy (police breaking down your door.. bombs..  et al).. diff of neolib.. no one is at fault.. marx: can’t blame govt.. because capitalist lives in fear.. irreversible power of neolib.. no one at fault

30 min – b: post human utopia by rushkoff – describes going to mtg which paid him 1/2 yr salary.. 6 wealthy men wanting to know how to escape situation.. wealthiest people in society don’t see a future.. giving up trying to guide society.. all they want is to protect self.. it’s kind of encouraging to me that they’ve given up.. we can’t repeat 2008.. where everything goes back to normal.. t.. ie: care matters.. and it needs to be paid for


let go of money (any form of measuring/accounting)

33 min – y: i’m finishing a book on what i’d like world to look like.. i wouldn’t even ban tax havens.. i’d ban share markets

b: interesting

wow.. let go guys

y: when you enroll college.. you get library card.. can’t sell it.. can’t have if not student.. i’d like to live in world.. you work for corp and you get one card like library card

b: i like it

35 min – b: on art in post capitalist world – one thing about art.. nobody knows why it’s important.. partly because people who traditionally talk about art are so bad thinkers/articulators


language as control/enclosure

37 min – b: we all know play is how children understand the world.. nobody would say.. wasting time.. then send to school and play a bad thing.. my theory is.. art is a way to continue to play throughout rest of life.. continuing to pretend, be excited.. t children learn by play.. adults play thru art.. far more people do that than we recognize.. we either do it or watch others doing it

let’s let the change be a focus on daily curiosity  ie: cure ios city

38 mi – b: first thing people do when have basics.. they start to make art.. most essential thing humans have.. our ability to imagine.. think about/examine something that doesn’t exist outside our minds..  we need to rehearse it all the time.. keep doing it

curiosity over decision making

ie: 2 convers as infra

40 min – b: i think if we start to understand the importance of art.. in the way we understand importance of food.. t.. this deliberate act of imagining that we call art.. then we start to take it seriously.. and think.. this is something we have to have

let’s do this firstfree art-ists.

re set : art (by day/light) and sleep (by night/dark) as re\set.. to fittingness

41 min – y: for me math.. because i’m not an artist.. ie: what would happen if not impossible..

we’re all artists.. but yeah.. let’s just facil daily curiosity  ie: cure ios city

42 min – y: descartes.. what if number that if mult by itself you get -1 and he came out w imaginary numbers..  he thought it was a stupid idea.. but others took it and.. but descartes did it for the hell of it.. if math is in the realm of play.. for fun.. art and science are not at all dissimilar.. great products if done for nothing.. so.. doing proper art/science is going against the very defn of neolib (doing for money)..t

perhaps let’s try/code money (any form of measuring/accounting) as the planned obsolescence

ie: ubi as temp placebo.. (people thinking they have money when really just getting whatever they need)

44 min – b: the only thing i think might change us.. is changing the attitude about being wealthy ie: minimalism – questioning of the idea that more is better

50 min – b: art consolidates these feelings.. ‘oh.. we all feel the same way about these things’

52 min – 2 stages in revolution: 1\ realize something is wrong  2\ realize everyone else realizes something is wrong..t

53 min – b: next project in london – bring together people wanting to design new world.. to make the point.. that many of the changes.. start as aesthetic/spiritual.. not usually from facts/figures.. usually rather vague feelings.. ie: this doesn’t feel right; this feels great.. i’d like to make a place where those feelings come together with the evidence.. i’d like science to be involved..

57 min – b: most important thing we have to nurture now is hope.. that we can really make something great/beautiful in the future.. i think we know what will stand in the way of that.. what we want to be clear about.. is where the seeds already are.. what is the new thing that is starting here..? people starting to collab again.. there’s only hope if we have hope.. it’s us