[image linked to credit]
[new orleans, la]
Scott Santens has committed his life to a single idea: that the government should write every adult citizen a check for $1,000 every month, no strings attached
nice. but perhaps only partial.. and only temp… why money..? when we have tech that can facilitate (rather than measure) connections/transactions
In December, Santens, a tall, lanky 38-year-old transplant from Seattle who works mainly from a white sofa in his living room in Gentilly, fired off a press release: “Writer and basic income advocate Scott Santens has become the first person to successfully crowdfund a perpetual monthly ‘basic income.’ ”
On a quiet block of Allen Street near Dillard University is a preview of what life might be like in a world where no one has to hold down a job in order to pay the bills.
so ..imagine no bills.. no work for pay.. aka: no measurement of transactions..
In any case, basic income advocates like Santens don’t actually expect that most people will immediately give up gainful employment once the government starts sending them money. *Researchers have experimented with it in various places and typically do not see a big drop in work hours.
*researchers have experimented w it in various places… but not yet in a full on (ie: 100% free\dom) space.. no? so we really don’t know what we’re capable of.. or where our souls would lead us
The important thing for Santens is that under a basic income, no one would starve to death if they lose their job. People can use the free time it gives them to start their own business or go to school or advocate for an idea like the basic income. And no one has to do a job they hate. Let the robots do those jobs, the argument goes.
“It gives you the ability to say no,” Santens said.
A basic income discussion thread that Santens moderates on the website Reddit.com has attracted more than 33,000 followers.
He referred to the “mental tax of poverty” that might be eliminated by a basic income for all — citing the time people spend worrying about where their next check is going to come from.
from redacted (2015) – Interview on Basic Income
want people to start asking.. *what is the point of tech.. and who is it supposed to work for.. it seems it would be to reduce requirements of human labor… tech has grown to point where we don’t have to work as much.. but benefits are accruing to top layer.. instead.. rather than free us.. w/tech..we’re putting in more hours
*what is point of tech – for us.. no… all of us.. all the earth.. ie: hosting life bits.. as the day:
3 min – on being at mercy of job creators… we don’t have a choice.. there’s no option to say no.. and that’s really the heart of the power of the idea of bi.. if everyone receives 1000/month then you actually have some bargaining power… like.. you don’t have to take a job.. 4 min – this ability to say no is going to be a very powerful transformation..
5 min – on welfare programs.. when get a job.. lose benefits.. only giving money to very bottom… for bi.. get a job.. don’t lose bi…changes the conditions…
8 min – on all the experiments we’ve already done.. showing people don’t reduce their work..
10 min – huge productivity cost ..for people who hate their work.. et al
people would like to pursue work they want to pursue.. and *that’s what bi allows.. people to pursue work they want to do
11 min – on crime going down 40%
12 min – on bi being only a half way step… if fire exit across room.. you have to walk half way there.. so if you believe we have to get rid of monetary system.. way to do that is bi… to start recognizing work that isn’t paid… once there.. then people suddenly empowered to do work they think is important…
so perhaps a faster way – radical econ ness
13 min – empowered to do this and have voice heard.. much more than we have now
indeed – but we have the means to leap.. and perhaps sync won’t ever happen till we leap..
14 min – seems we’ve strayed form systemic issues… ie: why are these fires happening.. how can we avoid them happening in first place.. those are structural questions..
15 min – so many things this can do..ie: reduce crime/poverty….
indeed.. but again.. since we have the means.. let’s’ use this yes.. but embedded in structure that exponentiates to… all of us.. today.
16 min – on experiment comparing conditional and unconditional cash
18 min – bi as free speech … econ rights.. ie: free speech.. saying you can say whatever you want.. but can you.. ie: can you say no to your boss..? probably not if your income isn’t guaranteed.. w/o econ rights.. it affects all others..
20 min – on how to afford this.. i don’t have cash myself to pay for it.. but certainly country does.. and not as much as we’re thinking…
21 min – on all the ways to come up with money… lot of smart ways to raise revenue
agree.. we can certainly get the money.. but all the ways you listed.. adds B to our day.. why do that.. when we don’t need to..
23 min – on people not understanding/seeing the inequities we have now.. if they could just see that.. i think they’d be for this..
Writer and advocate of basic income for all; Citizen of Earth and New Orleans; Bachelor of Science in Psychology; Moderator of the /r/BasicIncome community on Reddit; Founder of the BIG Patreon Creator Pledge.
deep learning teach us all a lesson
These exponential advances, most notably in forms of artificial intelligence limited to specific tasks, we are entirely unprepared for as long as we continue to insist upon employment as our primary source of income.
rather… as long as we insist on income
because for the first time, we are successfully teaching machines to learn.
? to learn..? or to iterate faster
If machines are performing an increasing percentage of our jobs for us, and not getting paid to do them, where does that money go instead? And what does it no longer buy? Is it even possible that many of the jobs we’re creating don’t need to exist at all, and only do because of the incomes they provide? These are questions we need to start asking, and fast.
? where does that money go..? money is made up..
jobs we don’t need.. of course.. but also money we don’t need
The future is a place of accelerating changes. It seems unwise to continue looking at the future as if it were the past, where just because new jobs have historically appeared, they always will
replace word jobs with money..
the smartest way to distribute the wealth is by implementing a universal basic income.”
the smartest way to distribute wealth is to distribute needs.. facil curiosity.. using/assuming money is just creating more bs jobs and less us
So let’s ask ourselves, what’s the purpose of the technologies we’re creating?.. Is it to allow us to work more hours for even less pay? Or is it to enable us to choose how we work, and to decline any pay/hours we deem insufficient because we’re already earning the incomes that machines aren’t?
enable us to choose what we do.. because we realize money is irrelevant/made-up..
What’s the big lesson to learn, in a century when machines can learn?
I offer it’s that jobs are for machines, and life is for people.
totally agree.. and money is irrelevant to life/people
unconditional basic income et al ness
bien – basic income earth network
Scott Santens (@scottsantens) tweeted at 7:14 AM – 25 May 2018 :
I find it very fitting that the opening message of #NABIG2018 has just been provided by an elder of the Batchewana First Nation. That message is “the Earth provides for us all.” Unconditonal basic income can be seen as simply the recognition of that ancient truth. (http://twitter.com/scottsantens/status/1000002279318147072?s=17)
perhaps a temp placebo to get back to that truth.. because the ancients did it w/o money
According to Lena Lavinas, to avoid the financialization of #basicincome, it is necessary that:
1. UBI must not be a supplement but must be high enough to fully cover basic needs.
2. UBI must exist alongside universal health care, education, and child care.
Original Tweet: https://twitter.com/scottsantens/status/1033621226126811136
3. ubi as temp placebo
#WhenThisIsAllOver we should keep universal basic income going and create a society where our advancing tech actually begins to work for all of us, and where we finally recognize that we are all in this together and poverty is 21st century cannibalism.
Original Tweet: https://twitter.com/scottsantens/status/1241417544042516483
2018 article: It’s Time for Technology to Serve all Humankind with Unconditional Basic Income
ie: ubi as temp placebo.. needs met w/o money..people forget about measuring
I took part in a >2-hour discussion yesterday about UBI from a resource-based economy perspective as a tool of possible eventual transition away from a monetary system. The first step is unconditional access to resources, then sharing rising productivity.
Original Tweet: https://twitter.com/scottsantens/status/1251204327873667079
actually 3 hour video (but scott leaves at 2:15)
4 min – s: got into this idea in 2013.. thru idea of a resource based econ.. interested in jacque fresco zietgeist.. i would tell others about it..but always this barrier about *how to get there.. it was reading this book in 2013 called manna by marshall brain .. creates this dystopia.. vs what if made tech work for us.. then i connected how we would get there.. tool to get there ie: bi..
5 min – most realistic means to getting to new econ.. decoupling of income for existence by making sure we have enough income.. bi is unconditional.. goes to everyone as individual.. not a household.. and regular that you can depend on.. weekly/monthly for rest of life.. the unconditionality is key.. if you try to target only the most deserving/poor.. you can create poverty traps and stigma.. we have goods/services.. let’s just make sure people have money to do that
or.. make sure they have goods/services.. so we forget about money/measure
10 min – s: on having a floor underneath everybody.. debate as to how far back this goes.. ie: over 200 yrs ago thomas paine ‘earth and natural state belong to all of humanity.. people should own some of that.. but did not create earth so everyone should owe.. ground resources.. natural inheritance.. everybody get money started at age 21’.. et al.. didn’t make sense to him to only help people after they fall into poverty.. prevent it from the beginning
14 min – s: ie: bill gates would receive bi.. but would pay more taxes.. so essentially paying for his own bi.. then goes on to explain taxes et al.. that may confuse people.. why paying people to get it back from them.. *want to make sure don’t make any mistakes in calculation.. **hard to determine need w/o any errors..t
*perhaps the biggest mistake is thinking we have to calculate the allocation of resources at all.. (ie: damage to soul.. not to mention the time suck)
bi is not the tool .. the need is not the money/income/resources.. the deeper need is that we find/hear/see self/others everyday.. the tool we need is one that would augmenting our interconnectedness.. ie: tech as it could be.. listening to every voice everyday
ubi as temp placebo.. needs met w/o money.. people forget about measuring
16 min – s: saving efficiency by only doing calculation at end (tax time)
let’s save deeper
17 min – s: i wouldn’t exclude just creating money.. esp w what’s happening now.. but can fit it into tax systems we have now (para)
19 min – s: on cost of poverty ie: child poverty in trillions.. on health and crime outcomes et al.. related to social environ.. ie: manitoba 8% reduction in hospital
21 min – s: any country w universal health care will pay more than with ubi
some ie’s crime reduced 42%.. and paying $12 000 a year to keep in prison et al
23 min – s: (on giving resources or money).. we have a system of resource allocation based on money.. that’s the key feature.. as long as a monetary system.. money is the freedom to decide.. by trying to determine what people need.. doesn’t help everybody.. ie: diff between food vouchers and cash.. voucher doesn’t allow all foods.. worse if trying to give people money rather than vouchers.. ie: food banks overwhelmed.. but for food that you can get.. not what you need.. so if they just have cash.. they can determine what they need
27 min – s: ie: some end up selling vouchers for rent.. which could get them into trouble
28 min – guy hosting: in spain have free healthcare.. would 1000 be enough to pay for healthcare..?
29 min – s: yes.. need floor.. but also need more.. ie: national systems of healthcare.. i don’t think ubi alone.. but healthcare, ed.. et al.. on top of ubi.. then that money goes further.. ie: 60% of student outcomes related thru home environ.. may not even graduate hs.. et al.. so money would go further
dang.. you just lost a ton of energy/health man.. wish we could talk (great insight but sabotaging possibilities by not letting go enough)
32 min – host: bi is like an ambulance in today’s system.. save lives.. make people more relaxed
33 min – s: i see it as a social evolution/innovation that would lead to far greater achievements ie: resource based econ is a locked door.. and hard to get people to walk thru it when it’s locked.. a lot of other doors locked..t..meaning.. people can’t even comprehend these bigger ideas when just trying to survive.. don’t care.. just focused on getting to end of month
34 min – s: bi is like a skeleton key that could unlock some of these doors..t.. so much more than money.. that is least important aspect.. most important is the conditions.. the unconditionality.. that is power/trust.. people can see it as redistribution of money.. but really it’s a redistribution of power/trust/time..
as long as bi is temp placebo (planned obsolescence).. so that people forget about money/measuring.. otherwise spinning wheels
35 min – if unconditional access to food/shelter.. then people who would otherwise exploit you.. can’t.. if basic needs are unconditional.. you can say no.. ie: power to say no.. freedom to say yes
imagine the freedom if we focus on (make tool for) deeper basic needs
37 min – it’s a way to get people involved in transactions w each other.. based on trust.. rather than as now.. don’t trust people until they do what you want them to do.. would open up a gift econ .. i’ve been experimenting w that myself since 2016.. now can give my work to world for free
and gift econ is still poison.. not unconditional
39 min – s: so much work is being done now that is unpaid ie: parent.. but if watching someone else’s kid.. so much work we’re all benefitting from but they’re not (rewarded) for
41 min – s: on consumer culture being self med.. to feel better about self.. to reduce that.. make society more equal.. bi does that.. but also we know that entrepreneurship/self-employ is a result of bi.. people have a natural desire to pursue their own interests.. start their own business
another reason we need a detox embed.. simultaneous.. because if set up own business.. spinning our wheels
44 min – host: on giving money like keeping monopoly game going.. ie: bezos making money because people still buying stuff
45 min – s: democratic effect too.. role not paid is citizenship.. people will have more time to be engaged.. will see laws in place that tax people like bezos..
engaged in system that broke/breaks us?
47 min – s: if all start at level 2 w basic needs met.. able to get to higher needs..
actually.. start with maté basic needs
48 min – participant: on 1000 not enough.. ie: rent, food.. i see bi as stepping stone.. but how do we get to the next level
49 min – s: on how system of conditionality doesn’t work.. effects of targeting.. ie: if get less than this.. then give you this.. people think these work.. but they don’t.. ie: in us 13 m people in poverty not getting help; food stamps.. 1 in 4 getting it; 1 in 5 w disability receiving assistance; ..
51 min – s: if we believe there are people in need and we want to make sure everyone gets it.. universality is only way .. more important that people in need get what they need than that people not in need do..
that wasn’t her issue.. you’re not meeting needs still with ie: 1000
52 min – same participant: if we don’t get to next step.. to greater society.. will be back in same boat
w/ubi as temp placebo.. needs met w/o money..people forget about measuring
54 min – s: when i talk about ubi in future.. i don’t see it as a floor that stays where it is and never moves.. best way i see.. is to have it grow with productivity.. today.. productivity growth has all gone to top.. so .. over time.. should raise floor with productivity.. ie: maybe in decade 2000/mo.. decades.. could be looking at ie: 100 000/yr.. then.. money itself becomes less and less important
let go man.. spinning wheels
right idea.. so that money has no control.. but decades..? when we could get there in a year
56 min – s: make sure what matters is people being able to utilize tickets.. someone sitting on a pile of un used tickets doesn’t matter.. over time could transition into what all this means any way.. this distributive resource calculator.. which is money
58 min – s: we’re talking about increased competition.. that would reduce power.. and power of citizenship is an un utilized power.. if you have a citizenry that can.. be more knowledgeable.. study/learn about people at top.. they gain their own lobbying power.. make sure grass roots reps represent them and win elections.. creates more democracy.. stronger democracy can confront higher powers
dang.. that’s not what we need.. ie: competition; citizenry; et al
1:00 – participant: what if money just lost it’s power.. ie: landlords raise prices.. utilities go up
s: that’s probably the most common response.. along with.. people will become lazy (my article – bi inflations)
1:04 – s: right now people are coupled to cities .. because cities are where the jobs are.. so this would increase landlord competition
ugh .. so slow.. so time sucky..
1:12 – s: part too is the why.. not just poverty.. but because we are all generating this value
1:16 – host: if we don’t try to address incentive of doing something for profit.. we are not going far away.. w bi or another.. so i think extremely important to put that in there
s: so hope to see platforms.. paying users.. ie: everyone w fb account would earn a dollar.. encourages understanding that platform value created by people..
1:19 – host: isn’t this a bad incentive to pay.. makes ie: fb more of a monopoly ie: if part of us.. free access.. pushes competition down
1:20 – s: interesting thinking about that.. but not seeing that right now.. i would prefer a network that would compensate users.. then looking at co’s that don’t have rich ceos because all users are owners
1:22 – host: incentive are so huge.. we need so much more than bi.. laws make little dent.. i think to get people to play nice is to remove the incentive for them to play badly
you were spot on above.. need to build infra sans incentive ness
scott left at 2:15 – team talks about new trom project: ourminds
2:40 – host: that’s why i don’t buy the competition thing.. competition created just to make more money
trom doc: intro had fresco, sagan, krishnamurti, feynman, suzuki, et al; ed had mitra, kahn; ..