intro’d to indra when someone on fb shared her new book – waking up.. not at library.. so taking her in here – interview about book on new republic of the heart: https://newrepublicoftheheart.org/podcast/071-indra-adnan-the-politics-of-waking-up/
notes/quotes from 80 min podcast (indra starts at 6 min):
6 min – reason i wrote book.. same energy as started altuk.. 2016 – need a new response to political situation.. just before brexit/trump.. same day joy cox murdered.. very dramatic.. what is agency..
8 min – most of what i wanted to contribute to the political scene.. i couldn’t.. there was nowhere to offer what i spent my life developing.. the political culture/structure was so dysfunctional.. even pulling families apart.. divisive narrative et al.. joy killed simply because challenging the main course..
9 min – only 2% of people are members of political parties.. so discourse from small amount of people..
need a means to undo our hierarchical listening
when you see that clearly.. and you make a commitment to stand outside that narrative in search of something else.. it’s a bit like tasting something for the first time and quite liking the taste of it
or not being able to unsee it
and then deciding you want to spend more time in that place.. the more time/immersion.. greedily if you like.. exploring all the possibilities.. you realize.. so much is going on outside of this 2%.. my understanding of what people are is so diff from what i am asked to accept..
black science of people/whales law – we have no idea what legit free people are like
the energy/qualities are diff.. literally like getting into a diff swim pool/bath.. saying.. i’m staying here
10 min – and that ultimately is where this very diff life appeared for me.. it was literally a diff life on offer.. i’ve begun to see life in a diff way.. no longer us against the problem.. it’s now the race to build.. the commitment to forge.. it’s pro active.. it’s shifted everything.. once you’re here you see so many ie’s of so much occurring.. and when in positions like we are to join the dots.. it’s like waking up.. and i’m still waking up.. it’s not like i woke.. and now i’m woke.. it’s an accelerated waking up ness.. even yesterday.. i was thinking.. i’m just not looking at this the right way.. keep on letting the new come thru .. more and more
16 min – original waking up for me was when i was 11 yrs old and my brother died in a car crash.. i didn’t know he died.. prayed all night he’d survive.. then finding out in morning he had died early night before.. feeling betrayed by god.. relentless teaching.. parents unable to help.. foundation of my life.. i fought back.. making a new deal w reality.. made up own religion/logic.. i was dissociated state.. i found my brother, aunt, people i’d lost and created a diff way of being alive.. h
18 min – then in early 20s buddhism.. it was most of what i had constructed.. so for a while i rested.. and was taught.. then part of movement for peace.. then mom ill and died.. hit another point of needing to understand and make a diff.. realized what i had forged.. was almost a belief in the creative.. i tested it in last months before mother died.. i was busy being a buddhist for earth.. excuses for not seeing her.. she was unhappy.. so didi a prolonged chanting session about my mother.. 7 hrs.. i realized i’d taken on her story about my not loving her enough.. so then i could drop it .. because i did love her enough.. and that power.. that i loved her enough is what i was looking for.. so when i went to visit her.. she didn’t have that complaint/anxiety anymore.. at that point i realized even in our relationship there’s no barrier.. you don’t have to wait for the other person to agree that everything is all right.. it can be your creation.. i could heal my relationship w my mother whether she did anything or not..
22 min – so i explored buddhist practice.. saying everything is alive.. because i am.. it changes thru me.. therefore it lives.. you confirm/create life by being alive.. so not an agreement anymore between two people.. if i have that sensibility w people.. if trying to be transformational.. have to be in the space where transformation is necessary.. if in a space that people haven’t heard of anything of what i know.. ie: integral ness.. they’re just being themselves.. that’s where i get the most info about transformation.. ie: somebody never met before.. it’s their quality that comes alive.. that is the transformation i’m hearing.. so no agreement.. that we should do this in order to transform.. it’s the relationship of meeting the person.. that person is the substance of the transformation
not sure i get this.. i like not needing and agreement ness.. but making others be alive sounds unsettling
27 min – 3 things we do at the alt toward bringing alive: 1\ to witness how a current narrative has made us feel divided.. esp w covid.. new reasons to be angry each other.. rift going deeper and deeper.. if we think of everything as act of deliberate disconnection.. (even though org connectedness is amazing) but even so.. we’re living in the story of our disconnection..
29 min – so we decided to choose 2-3 towns and do the patient work of moving into relationship of trust w/in that space.. and we designed a process called a collab.. which starts w 1\ deep hanging out .. meeting usual suspects.. all the good in that place that are already intent on doing the work.. 1st meet w them then notice who is being left out w that convo .. bring those people in.. have an event – a friendling.. big dinner.. free drink.. play games.. and opp for people who haven’t met we each other before.. asking light questions.. getting them comfortable w each other.. then inviting them to the next stage of the process
31 min – 2\ the inquiry – invite people to not talk about problems.. what is wrong.. instead.. to think about future.. what kind of future do you yearn for for this place you’re living in.. think freely.. we’d used arts people to facil these meetings to generate as much creativity as possible.. so these people would be bound by some sort of convo.. they’d create more relationship thru the convo about the future they all could imagine.. and we’d create the conditions where they could even put them on the map.. that big huge floor map.. so begin to feel they were living in a place they’d imagined together.. already forgotten diff’s between them.. just now engaged in forward thinking
32 min – and the 3rd stage 3\ the beginnings of building the citizens action network (can).. an entrepreneurial phase where people agree to make some things a priority and start to work on them.. and .. the people who are the usual suspects would be the people who could source funding for things.. but everybody could have a place in this co creative space..
dang.. sounds good to here.. but don’t need to do that.. and that compromises the energy.. ie:
public consensus always oppresses someone(s)
33 min – so what i’m describing.. a lot of people would say i’m familiar w that it’s called community organizing.. but it’s really has to do w the emphasis/tools we’re using for moving people into a diff kind of relationship w each other and the premium really was on trust building.. and if you like.. emerging a kind of love for each other.. that increased the more they worked on something
34 min – and finally.. create the 4\ can (citizen action network).. a container for action.. once constituted can *attract people who are not at all interested in this
*oi.. don’t do that
imagine if we just focused on listening to the itch-in-8b-souls.. first thing.. everyday.. and used that data to augment our interconnectedness.. we might just get to a more antifragile, healthy, thriving world.. the ecosystem we keep longing for..
34 min – in this can we intro’d a currency for any activity you were doing.. you’d be paid in this currency.. and that was linked excess product in the area..
killer.. incentives.. huge red flag you’re/we’re doing it wrong.. need to get to the itch-in-8b-souls.. first thing everyday.. and facil/connect around that.. so that no one needs incentives to join in
then you could go to people not interested at all.. in the area.. not interested in: politics.. community org.. but you could say.. ‘you could get free seats on the bus.. free cinema tickets.. ‘.. and that would be a *new way of pulling people in that are not interested in the old ways
oh my.. compromising people from the get go.. just because they aren’t interested in the original groups semi-consensus
*same song.. not new.. not healthy.. not proactive..
we just need a means to listen deep enough.. so we can org around something 8b souls already crave..
ie: a nother way
35 min – eventually you have this burgeoning (increase rapidly, flourishing) for this new sense of id and purpose growing in that community.. but most of it was designed w a view to getting people’s needs met.. so giving them *belonging.. purpose.. some possibilities of **achievement.. giving them autonomy.. ***taking control back of your lfe.. and that’s really the design principle of a can.. that it should meet ****people’s needs..
*no.. definitely not that .. again.. ie: brown belonging law: the opposite of belonging.. is fitting in.. true belonging doesn’t require you to change who you are.. it requires you to be who you are.. and that’s vulnerable.. –Brené Brown
maté trump law.. et al
***not pro-active.. more like paranoid
36 min – that to us is the only proper answer or challenge to populism.. so populism is where people can be emotionally vulnerable but easy to trigger/manip.. because there’s nowhere for them to moving into relationship w people on the ground.. they’re too vulnerable to the newspaper or to the radio .. something has to counter that..
so this building of cans and it’s cosmo local.. because it’s tech enabled and so everything that people do these days is connected to the internet.. nothing is really local anymore.. everything is connected to global commons/ideas/practices/methods.. you can be in the global convo while you’re doing something on the ground
37 min – very important to this process is how do you help shape a good story.. so not only are you telling each other good stories as you are engaging w each other .. but also they need to be captured in some way
better.. to capture daily curiosity.. first thing every day.. and use that as data to connect us.. (so that no one has to be incentivized into joining some ‘already’ project).. so that everyone can do/be whatever they want.. esp.. the the thing(s) they can’t not do
(on capturing stories): there needs to be something that reflects back to you the sum total of what you’re doing
rather.. we need to let go of any form of m\a\p
otherwise.. you think you’re working alone .. or you think what you’re doing is so small/irrelevant.. so the building of the media w/in that process is very important.. then connecting to cans in other places
rather.. it’s the coerciveness of what you describe.. ie: belonging by fitting in.. even if it takes movie tickets et al to convince you.. that is creating/perpetuating the small/irrelevant/alone ness
then connecting cans in other places is also very important.. so you’re not just hearing about what you’re doing but about what others are doing.. in similar conditions to you
38 min – in our case w the alt (uk) .. we’re connecting people to cans in india in costa rica in africa.. and there’s a sense of there being a cans movement.. in which people are finding relationship w each other
this is great.. but not new(s) anymore.. and not deep enough.. local connections.. so people can do/be whatever they want that day .. is what is possible now
ie: imagine if we
so on the one hand it is a global phenom and on the other hand it’s an intensely local phenom.. and that i think is very enlivening for people.. that they feel they’re part of something that could possibly grow enough and have power.. at the level we’re dreaming of
yeah.. not local/enlivening enough.. which is what we need first..
i think if 8b people were legit free.. they/we wouldn’t be dreaming of growing and/or having power.. those concepts would be irrelevant s
(terry: how is this contagious and self reinforcing to some degree)
i don’t think it is.. i think we’d only get that legit.. if we org’d around what 8b souls already crave.. and for that kind of deep org.. we need a means to undo our hierarchical listening
41 min – important question.. and i hesitate to answer too quickly.. because it would be wrong to dismiss on narrative and replace it w another.. what i would say instead.. one of the things we can be grateful to social media.. even fb.. for .. is that we’ve learned to distrust narrative.. we’ve learned to look more carefully or look twice at what we’re reading.. some people.. it’s the first time.. they are questioning things properly.. you might say conspiracy theorists.. but what’s happening in that person is they’re for the first time really questioning authority.. govt.. people in power.. they’re beginning to see that they are manipulated.. they are beginning to question their freedom for the first time
43 min – on a journey now of not just being in the grip of the establishment.. very short time ago we probably all were..
still are.. we can’t seem to let go enough to not be.. but a big part of that (i think) is that it has to be all of us to work/dance.. which again.. is the legit new thing today.. we have the means for a legit global leap.. a legit global re\set
44 min –
ie: documentary.. the social dilemma.. so much talk about who’s the devil in that piece.. but the truth is we’ve been living that way all our lives.. we’ve never been free of propaganda.. always lived w/in the story that has been generated for us.. econ system turned us into slaves of consumer econ..
45 min – once you really wake up to what’s happened to us as human race.. it’s shocking.. for most people it’s a slow waking up process and we’re in the middle of it..
46 min – so.. how do people cope w truth about environ crisis.. i believe (w the scientists) that we’re in this state.. need to turn w/in 10 yrs.. however 1\ i can look at that as a narrative/story of my life at this point.. the life i think i’m in 2\ can challenge that.. same as saying.. my life is defined by death but i’m fighting back.. that is really an option for people.. when take that on.. connect w.. ie: 200 best projects.. immense amount of work being done et al..
47 min – becomes a challenge of whether or not we can harmonize ourselves better and give up things more
48 min – if able to watch nature.. surviving death every winter and coming back.. because you strip away all the dead stuff that is stopping life from coming thru
49 min – (from daughter) says i’m responding to live things in the wrong way.. i don’t have to make them grow.. i just have to stop killing them
yeah that.. huge
there’s a nother way.. some is tech.. and some is letting go
ie: a nother way
56 min – i feel as if.. it’s the most incredible gift to notice that aliveness .. the yes of life.. is such a gift.. to share that w someone else.. to see that little thing shift.. it’s not that they ‘have to’ anything.. it’s just that they’ve noticed it now.. like watching young children looking at a butterfly or otters holding hands.. the little miracles of nature that children are so delighted with.. it’s so easy to miss them..
1:00 – once you notice the world/people is/are really alive and beautiful.. ie: 5 yr experiment.. of funds given to community to do whatever you like.. no strings.. only thing is you had to have a team that would stewart this money for the community..
w/ubi as temp placebo.. needs met w/o money.. till people forget about measuring
1:01 – lives changed thru this.. came alive..
imagine if we legit let everyone do whatever they want.. with legit no strings
1:02 – that’s what i think is available to us.. the discovery that there’s life everywhere.. if you can listen up for it and listen in that way.. it feeds you.. it’s happening .. everywhere..
1:10 – positive is a funny word.. like a plus sign.. more than in some way.. which i accept as a direction of travel.. but definitely something revealed for me is.. of letting go
1:12 – when you think there’s nothing there.. it’s there.. look again.. growing capacity to think/feel.. looking for confirmation of life being present..
1:14 – people in depressed communities aren’t looking for money.. but energy/purpose/belief..
1:16 – our current miracle of connectedness.. we should live that more.. so now what
let’s try a legit nother way
Co-initiator of The Alternative UK, Psychosocial Therapist, Founder, Soft Power Network, author Politics of Waking Up: Power & Possibility in the Fractal Age.