pat & indra on waking up
The Politics of Waking Up: a conversation with Indra Adnan (@indraadnan) and Pat Kane (@thoughtland). Pt.2
peter: how can we talk to each other in a way that shakes things up and shifts things.. enables flexibility necessary for something new to emerge..
peter: people develop a style of talking/listening that is a habit (from school et al)
4 min – i: maybe something new has to be named.. there’s still the unsatisfied ego that reigns in the public space.. private space.. ready to listen.. want to be close.. people don’t want to be close in the public
public consensus always oppresses someone(s)
i: there has to be some humility around.. what do i have to do still.. no one has succeeded in this.. the task is.. can we name it.. for the whole.. about life itself
7 min – peter: the vulnerability of having a convo that is the key to that convo really opening up..
10 min – p: that spontaneity is what you want.. but how much of that has been knocked out of people.. conditions for play et al are under threat.. need to come up with a new form..t
11 min – i: we’ve always been able to play.. we’ve got a huge game industry.. but it quickly dissipates.. i just wonder what it is that we haven’t done yet.. we’re still really profoundly not in relationship w people around us.. i’m not sure what would trigger it.. personal choice – if everybody felt they had a personal choice.. war.. lots of things trigger it
ie: listen to and facil 8b daily curiosities
12 min – peter: anybody is free to make that choice today.. anybody can start to create that.. diff convers w people
yeah.. i don’t think that’s true
i: to me that feels very privileged.. even to experience that choice..
yay indra.. yes..
13 min – i: so how do you create the space for that to happen.. that’s what you’re doing here.. inviting us into a conversation.. but hard to get a diverse space.. you have to work very hard to bring diverse people into a space.. which we call a collaboratory.. creating friendly spaces… attractive to come in.. also have to do hard work of moving into other people’s natural spaces.. then invite into our space
it’s not about inviting.. it’s about listening.. where ever people already are
ie: cure ios city
14 min – i: but the degree to which people don’t feel free to make relationship with others is really high on my awareness.. i’m so free.. able to do what you’ve just described.. but most people don’t have that freedom.. emotionally.. more afraid.. judgmental.. et al
15 min – i: ie: inviting people into this friendly space.. one woman said – you’re trying to brain wash me.. our freedom to be able to do what you and i think we can do.. isn’t quite there yet..’
beyond not quite there..
16 min – i: but the fact that we can’t do it either.. i find that harder to understand..
17 min – peter: on not learning how to talk with people at school.. i wasn’t equipped to have convers about things that matter
19 min – p: how to attract/invite people into spaces and then to enjoy selves when there.. t
backwards guys – not about inviting.. about listening deeper.. start w curiosity..
constant hospitality law et al
23 min – peter: any community has to have some kind of common purpose.. once common purpose found.. community coheres quite organically.. t
imagine if we brought people together everyday via what itch they woke up with that morning
peter: one of forms of alienation.. we have contracted out all kinds of functions a community would do together .. which is part of cohering dynamic
yeah.. i don’t think that’s deep enough
25 min – i: citizens action network.. how people can come together w a common purpose.. what we see now ie: environ crisis et al.. so the question is.. how do we come into relationship w each other.. and that’s what we’ve been building the architecture for
has to be deeper than that.. something already in each one of us (that makes it so that everyone has access now.. no need to prep/train/invite)
deep enough.. ie: maté basic needs
26 min – i: we do see it’s possible.. process 1\ usual suspects (been working on this) moving into better relationship w each other.. 2\ reach out to people have been excluded from that.. have values.. but not included .. what future could we dream of together 3\ building of the action.. most.. is to reach out to people who don’t share your values
nah.. needs to be all of us from the get go
27 min – i: what kind of thing can you create.. that links all these people together.. that is attractive to everyone.. t
ie: cure ios city
i: you might then have to shift from common purpose to more like a club.. so that when people think about it.. they feel some belonging.. that can become the attractor of this thing.. something that holds us together in a friendly matter.. a new unit of a new politics.. then would have a way to participatory budget.. take over council.. et al.. if we get in .. you’ll be able to make all decisions et al.. then went on to counts for elections.. begin w the friendship of a group of people..
gotta go deeper.. way deeper
31 min – i: it’s not as if we don’t have any ie’s.. just want it to go faster..
that’s just it.. we don’t have any ie’s.. we keep looking at whales in sea world
33 min – p: we have all the soft infra to make that work – bringing together by (local) currency
35 min – peter: and these groupings all coalesce around a need.. so what would you say to somebody.. that can’t id a purpose/need
i: we’re asking ourselves that question right now.. you can’t ignore the huge planetary need.. we can declare an emergency.. but what do you do..?.. say you started with that.. but some not interested
well.. you can ignore it.. many aren’t that interested.. .. there are deeper (more attractive) holes..
37 min – i: i would start with what we call deep hanging out.. where you live.. find out about what people are already gathering.. choose something you feel you could be with
backwards.. start with itch in the soul first.. otherwise.. won’t truly enjoy.. won’t last.. not enough energy.. and .. only way to undo our hierarchical listening
i: the thing is.. you don’t need to start something.. you need to join with other things.. and then join those things up with each other .. that’s the movement.. so coming into relationship rather than.. *getting my needs met
*problem is we aren’t focusing on legit/deep needs ie; maté basic needs
38 min – i: really the problem.. every body is trying to find own purpose.. to make money.. but there’s a new intelligence of all this.. the joiner upper.. the connector of dots.. .. that’s a whole new way of being
well.. we do need to listen and connect.. but it matters huge when that listening happens.. it’s got to be first think.. privately.. so that we aren’t coerced into something or whatever..
39 min – i: what i’m trying to do is accept people as they radically are..
peter: as you say.. not to meet your needs.. but one of big needs is to be in relationship..
45 min – peter: do we need a new way of talking with each other
p: i think some things are fundamental to humans.. and living in relation is one of them.. and tool for that is conversation.. first step.. try to understand other people..
46 min – i: for me.. even if we know we’re capable of that.. why haven’t we done it.. so what are the conditions in which people can do that.. and how can we create those conditions.. freed from things that have prevented them.. that is the mech that will unlock our potential.. t.. why doesn’t it happen.. and how to help make it happen
indra responds to this tweet:
We are doing just that with our collaboraties off and on-line. Hear the yearning for the sea then build the boat https://t.co/C3W4alMyqW
Original Tweet: https://twitter.com/indraadnan/status/1275881535187681282
i think what we keep missing.. is how to ‘hear the yearning for the sea’ (ie: i keep trying to make you yearn for my sea et al) .. i think if we focused on daily curiosity.. we’d be able to undo/detox that hierarchical listening
47 min – i: the civic network is our design process reflecting the need for that.. we haven’t arrived
48 min – p: to make it seem like a right that people have.. that they can bring every part to the convo
backwards again.. listen to each voice.. rather than make them come to table/space.. whatever
49 min – p: i think one of the new things could be conversations that happen in the midst of other experiences.. if you find a new form.. do tell us