jordan on jubilee

jordan (green)hall on jubilee – dec 2020 – 28 min video – The Jubilee | Deep Code Experiment: Episode 29 – -curves, complicated and complex, tainter, cultural logic, the Jubilee.

via michel fb share:

I listened to the first 5 minutes only, but already I can see this is going to be interesting, as Jordan Hall is in the process of fully integrating commons thinking in Game B thinking.In the starting 5 minutes, Jordan introduces the tension that arises when Game A meets Game B, and the competitive motive, game A, interferes with the synergestic/cooperative logic of Game B, say between the commons and the market for example.

so essentially, this is about the Jubilee mechanism, can be used to halt the depletion of Game B Commoning by Game A extraction strategies, and to replenish the commons


notion of 2 diff types of games monopoly (notion of winning) vs friendship (antirivalrous.. everybody wins when everybody is a better friends)

monopoly about extraction – finite # of dollars.. i want to get all – complete control over scarce resources

friend about synergy/creation value – coop/collab.. division of labor.. achieve diff levels of expertise/specialization has capacity to grow the size of the pie

mumford non-specialized law et al..

2 min – these are the two games that are fundamentally in tension.. if all playing coop game.. all well in good but if something w/in playing the extraction game.. they will localing take larger portion .. if pie growing fast enough then ok.. but at margin someone will notice.. then pull back to contribution to whole.. and more focuses on competition/defection.. tragedy of commons.. pie stops growing.. shrinks.. seriously lose..

only two choices? spinach or rock?.. what if neither are legit/natural? ie: i see our ideas of coop/collab as extractors

4 min – so holding that as a frame.. one of the challenges here is how do you change this cultural logic.. how do you change dynamic where there’s an orientation toward watching for opp to play/win the finite game..

this is where the jubilee comes in

diff frame.. s curves.. learning/innovation curve.. some new domain.. for a while .. lot of effort on exploration/practice w/o a lot of return.. ie: oil.. start getting increasing returns.. then so good at it that it’s the dominant mode


5 min – then get to end of the possibility and harder to get returns.. ie: taken enough oil out of ground.. harder to get same amount

6 min – carrying cost of society getting bigger.. so energy demands going up.. maps to previous story.. pie ceases to expand.. scarcity/competition.. some going w/o.. begins process of monopoly

7 min – then can shift.. from ie: oil to solar panels.. the point is we want everybody to be oriented in that direction

8 min – so next major problem – the point of the jubilee.. imagine if nature of monopoly was that whoever had most dollars got to play both banker/judicator.. the more successful you win.. the more power you have over characteristics of how winning the game is decided.. might call this money power.. as feedback loop.. so .. collapses to small amount of players who have won.. they own the game.. so every effort to change the game will be pushed back

9 min – so double wammy.. got the basic rules.. that allow someone to win.. but also allow one who wins to feedback on rules to change the rule set into niche construction to support their own continuing winning

10 min – here’s the challenge.. it’s time to change the game but it’s owned by the ones who want it.. so least motivated to change the game.. so have to figure out how to convince them to change the game.. but not interested and power to keep it from changing

problem happens all the time.. because we have we been trying to do this civilization.. as extract from the commons from complexity into complicatedness.. we create games of this sort.. we get locked in.. but laws of complicated ness don’t stop.. so really want to change the game but really can’t

11 min – this ends up being one of 3 major endpoints..

1\ worst is where the ability of elites to resist changing the game is strong enough that the pressure to change never gets there till it collapses.. a\ pressure on complicated system b\ elites so completely dominate.. furthest away from feeling pain/necessity of change

12 min –

2\ revolution – need for change is coming from the complex.. from human relationality in most fundamental sense.. from nature.. it’s novel.. some new form emerging on the interior of the current environ.. and if has enough power/capacity to disrupt elite control.. it will tear/break/rend.. there will be a discontinuity.. and then a transition to whatever this new emergence looks like..

13 min – ie: new emergence around digital.. diff from analog.. so analog institutions.. and emerging institutions trying to shift to new s curve.. so also have to figure out how to out compete old.. with how to do new.. so nature of those two tensors: how do i do a really good job of doing social/cultural civ in this new digital milieu; and other – how do i fight back against the control structures of the institutions.. so get a blend of that.. sometimes not very pretty.. and that’s why revolutions sometimes end up being quite bloody..

doesn’t have to be that way.. if offer something satisfying to all – no need to fight back..

go deeper deep code experiment.. there’s a nother way

15 min –

3\ rare.. something happens where elites become enlightened and choose to steward emergence of new.. even not in local best interest (giving up old game).. but in global best interest.. and this goes back to that frame of the monopoly game.. ie: if winner but kind of know the game is going to end.. so no incentive to transition out of monopoly game and back into the friend game and make sure that’s nice.. and see if i can make my winning the monopoly game win me currency ..value/prestige/relationality in the friend game.. ie: so people think i’m nice.. cool that i won.. no animosity et al.. that was a beautiful game.. so they want to keep playing

yeah.. i don’t think we just have those 3..

we have a means today to do all this sans any form of measuring/accounting.. any form of people telling other people what to do et al

17 min – so imagine jubilee.. that we had some kind of deep design in our game/civ structure.. where there’s a clock.. say every 50 yrs there’s a reboot.. and i’m going to say reboot instead of reset because reset has already been taken.. and reboot is a stronger idea.. like old fashioned (?) where you press the red button.. or even stronger.. you unplug it and pull powers down.. plug it back in and it boots back up.. *and in the meantime you change the bios

yeah.. boots back up to same game/system.. and this is why jubilee ness is not deep enough.. it’s just a reset (reboot whatever) of the same game.. not a legit re\set

[googled out of curiosity and got this: ‘If you reboot, it’ll turn back on and you’ll still be unable to login. When you reset, information is wiped and reinstalled. When it comes to your router, for it to truly reset, its current software must be totally removed and restored to its original configuration. Resetting is useful, but only when it’s needed.’ .. words don’t matter to me.. as long as we legit reset/redo the system/game/whatever]

*huge.. only i don’t think we grok what this means.. and maybe as evidence.. we’re using computers as ie’s.. we need organism as fractal ness to literally/actually change/recover/uncover our legit ecosystem

[again googled: ‘The basic input/output system, BIOS, is the main setup program on any computer. When you turn your computer on, you’re actually turning on the BIOS, which in turn loads the rest of your computer’s hardware. You can completely change the BIOS on your computer, but be warned: Doing so without knowing exactly what you’re doing could result in irreversible damage to your computer.‘]

18 min – yeah.. let’s say so every 50 years we have a hard reboot.. which is to saw we really/completely change the entire complicated system

yeah.. but we don’t want to change the complicated system (of machines/games).. we want to get back to the complex system of living organisms..

and so anybody who won the old game can’t carry anything over into the new game we create *from the complicated back down to the complex..

that makes little difference.. if the game is still set up for winners/losers.. doesn’t matter who the winners/losers are.. it matters that they exist

*i hope i’m wrong.. but doesn’t sound like you are headed back down to the complex

and them from the complex you go back up.. down and back up.. not side to side of complicated to complicated but complicated to complex.. back to complicated

why back to complicated? aren’t we wanting to get back to an undisturbed ecosystem?

complexity ness

so let’s make it really simple.. let’s imagine at first it’s just a debt jubilee.. every 50 yrs.. as game begins.. some are buying some lending.. so for first 15-25 yrs.. ordinary.. but when reach year 20.. notice the absence of 30 yr loans.. because everybody knows that 50 yrs from now.. so debt landscape changes a lot.. the game theoretic play changes completely.. no point in holding large capacity to make loans towards the end.. because it’s all going to reset.. you’re definitely not going to want to have a lot of portfolios moving out of debt

oi.. debt landscape changing a lot..? play changing completely.. ? portfolios..? same song/game.. let go man

debt et al

20 min – if you’re narrowly in just the debt landscape.. can launder winnings into another game.. a real jubilee.. capital j.. is defined as a filter.. and eye of the needle.. whereby nothing can migrate from a complicated system across to another complicated system.. must go thru the complex.. into any complicated system

again.. not helpful to getting back to humanity/aliveness/complexity.. just a bandaid.. not deep.. not deep code.. just rebooting (whatever) the tragedy of the non common.. it’s why jubilee ness hasn’t worked in the past.. we keep not letting go enough to bet to legit common\ing


1\ undisturbed ecosystem (common\ing) can happen

2\ if we create a way to ground the chaos of 8b free people

imagine if we

21 min – monopoly game.. there can be nothing about the way you participated the monopoly game that doesn’t have to cash out in friendship before you can play in another game

the cashing ness is the poison – new/old game.. matter little if we don’t change that dynamic (ie: 10-day-care-center\ness et al)

so that’s the nature/design characteristics of the jubilee.. has to be designed in such a way to be comprehensive/deep enough.. both scope and in nature that all that which has been taken from the commons.. all that has been moved from being held by the whole and for the purposes of the whole into complicated structures, corps, money, laws, fill in the blank.. has to go thru a period of complete erasure..

22 min – and then from the basis of the commons.. common ing.. a new structure begins to emerge

a new structure.. but not a legit common\ing structure if we’re still going back to the complicated games..

now this seems insane in some sense.. feels really scary..

yeah.. what seems insane is that we’re so scared to let go enough.. but we’re acting/believing like we are

and here’s where the problem is.. this is because we’re living at the tail end of *almost complete elision (omission) of the commons.. so imagine back to our monopoly game..

*almost complete elision of the commons.. to me.. makes it sound like a red flag you’re not grokking legit common\ing.. ie: doesn’t work in part\ial ness.. either you are (100% and for 100% of humanity) or you’re tragedy of the non common ing

like as if already free ness.. almost won’t work.. has to be everyone in sync (perhaps ridiculous notion prior to now.. but now.. doable.. we have the means to facil the assumed chaos of 8b legit free people)

*imagine that we only had monopoly.. playing monopoly for generations.. and it was the only way to survive in the world.. to play f ing monopoly.. and nobody was friends.. nobody knew what friendship meant.. nobody had been friends for 500 yrs

*imagine? isn’t that how it is.. how it has been? some form of monopoly.. forever

and to the friends.. we really don’t have friends in the deep essence we crave.. since forever.. ie: we’re not legit us and we need legit us in order to get to legit belonging

well then obviously if i said.. hey you’re going to have to get rid of monopoly and the way you’re going to manage your life is thru friends.. you’d be very scared.. that sounds very rough.. ok.. i agree.. we’re at a very bad spot.. we made a categorical error of almost completely eliminating the fundamental substrate of the commons of the complex as the primary mode by which we support our collective living ness

? wish we could talk about what that fundamental ness actually is.. i think we’re missing that .. and without that focus/infra/org.. we’ll not get back/to an undisturbed ecosystem/common\ing et al

manage life thru friends?..

23 min – and the notion of deleting the complicated system and supporting ourselves in the commons feels literally insane.. oh well.. it’s where we are.. *you always go from complicated back to the complex.. the complex is the ground..

*but we’ve never gone from complicated back to legit complex/organism as fractal ness.. our obsession with analyzing history ness is killing us.. keeping us in the tragedy of the non common

we’re either going to go thru the collapse approach.. the hard way.. all the way down to something very basic/human.. which in this context would be really basic

but not basic enough.. listen deep er

or.. there’s going to be a revolution .. which is kind of a return to the complex in this weird intermediary step.. kind of ugly

or.. we could try to actually to steward our way across it and be thoughtful about it and make it not quite as insane/crazy.. but one way or another.. that’s how it’s going to play out

that’s how it has played out.. but our history ness isn’t our only option..

what does deep code even mean ?

definitely not going deep enough

24 min – and the point of the jubilee is to make it so that we are bound .. never to put ourselves into the circumstance again.. right

so crazy.. you’re dependent on history ness for your options of a way forward.. but not seeing that ie: jubilee ness has never done that in the past

always ground a huge *fraction of living ness in the commons my friends .. so that you don’t end up with this optimization algo against a particular finite game.. sucking so much of social/human capacity.. that leaving the game feels like suicide.. it feels existential

our suicide is in thinking we can have any size *fraction of livingness (as opposed to all) in the commons.. like trust, unconditionality, it’s all or nothing

and that we keep not letting go enough.. that we keep trying part\ial ness.. is the big energy suck

and we need to be in a position where we can in fact leave the game and still be perfectly ok.. or at least have the courage to move thru that process of reinventing ourselves..

perhaps let’s try this deep code: money (any form of measuring/accounting) as the planned obsolescence w/ubi as temp placebo.. needs met w/o money.. till people forget about measuring

imagine if we ness

so let me give you the other side of the coin.. this is new.. this is novel in history

oh .. dang i hope so.. last 4 min.. would be lovely if it were

if you imagine the old testament version of the jubilee.. which by the way was more comprehensive than just debt.. one of the interesting things about that period of time was that the degree of change in tech capacity.. the possibility space of what could be done under new institutions was relatively small.. every 50 yrs not a whole lot changed in the axial age

25 min – so reboot back then was kind of a reboot to an institutional structure that we knew and understood and was effective.. so kind of going form corrupt and overburdened to new.. almost like a human/pheonix cycle of birth/death.. *but it’s back to..t

*this is huge.. huge point.. i hope you can hear it as you say it

in our case.. we’ve got a different vibe.. we actually are moving forward in the terms of potential of what’s possible now.. it’s just very diff than what’s possible back in 1950.. t

yes.. ginorm point

so.. if we could actually get rid of the constraints of 60-80 yr old institutional commitments. designed characteristics and of course the corruptions in (?) essence that’ve set in since then.. the new institutional designs that we could put in place.. that are actually designed thoughtfully and well for our current capacities.. would just be a lot more powerful.. we could do a lot better

agree.. if we go that deep.. ie: 2 convers as infra via tech as it could be

26 min – this is like the intro of cell phones.. infra was better in places like brazil/taiwan.. because analog systems hadn’t been very successful.. hadn’t rolled out well in jungles and what not.. whereas in us .. it took a lot longer and wasn’t as good because everybody already kind of had phones.. so we both had the incumbent phone systems saying no.. and .. people didn’t really demand cell phones as fast because the phone system worked ok.. so they were able to leap frog over..

kind of like.. if you could imagine a giant social/cultural leapfrog into a new basis that is just vastly more powerful.. and by the way more fun.. because *the tech curve has changed a lot..t

yeah.. humanity does need a leap.. to get back/to simultaneous spontaneity ..  simultaneous fittingness..  everyone in sync..

but we do have to make sure where we’re leaping us all too is legit diff.. and i see no signs of that yet from your talks et al.. i do wish we could talk .. but.. we can’t hear (center of the problem/solution)

*and we’re missing it

27 min – imagine if we set a 50 yr time line.. which seems like a lot but just imagine if we did.. 2070.. just imagine right now.. we’re going to have a jubilee.. and we’re going to design something.. knowing that in 50 yrs it’s going to go away and we’re going to do a full reboot.. on the basis of 2070.. *i would propose that 2070 is going to be a lot diff than 2020

perfect ie of missing it ness.. 1\ leap happens over night 2\ not grokking current capabilities of tech – ie: capability to change us over night

*not if we don’t legit leap – legit re\set – legit let go..

2070 will just be same song

we have an incredible opp right now (to (virus) leap et al) and we are missing it

another video please.. ha

there are going to be capacities, possibilities, potentialities.. and frankly problems and challenges that are very very diff than the ones we have right now

not really.. not if we don’t legit leap now

and it would be appropriate if we gift to that future the ability for them to design on the basis what those capabilities are and not have to deal with trying to redesign or struggle with or manage thru on the basis of whatever stuff we come up with now

yeah.. let’s deep code design for that.. ie: cure ios city.. regen ourselves.. every day

so that’s actually quite good news.. if you can imagine getting over this hump right now and building in the jubilee reboot into the system architecture.. deeply.. so that it can’t be gamed by niche construction

let’s go deeper than your deeply.. ie: again..  money (any form of measuring/accounting) as the planned obsolescence

then you actually get a really powerful flip.. where each phase actually gifts to the future phase.. all the development that happens.. but then steps back.. and allows that future phase to cohere around the potentials of what has happened in the intervening timeframe.. and then it leaps to the next one.. you get these very powerful feedback loops

so obviously.. there’s a lot to be talked about outside of this.. but we’ve already gone on 30 min which is a pretty big bite.. and it feels like this is a nice place to stop

so.. you’re suggesting that to get to something truly different.. we look at 50 yrs change.. (like our whale history models show/teach us).. and you’re calling that a leapfrog? saying we can leap because we have more capabilities now then back then.. but *we’re not using them?

*because right now.. we have the means for a global leap in less than year