world localization day
90 min video – jun 2020 – World Localization Day – Webinar 3 Recording
found from this tweet via local futures retweet:
This video is so amazing. If you’re looking for fresh, radical ideas outside the mainstream, this is it.
The best comment was Helena Norberg-Hodge on how #localism is the answer to pretty much everything.
Original Tweet: https://twitter.com/MaryTracy/status/1284135730260975617
Charles Eisenstein – Writer and speaker, USA
Zach Bush – Physician, human & ecological health educator, USA @DrZachBush
Alnoor Ladha – The Rules.org, Costa Rica
Devita Davison – FoodLab Detroit, USA (didn’t join – mother)
Helena Norberg-Hodge – Director, Local Futures, Australia
Moderated by Henry Coleman
6 min – c: reunion of selves to rest of life.. to restore relationships that make us whole beings.. reclaiming of lost relationships..t
8 min – a: i’m really uncomfortable with the idea of bios.. it’s just the reification of id when id is part of the problem..
9 min – h: for 45 years.. working on need to reconnect w nature.. we have become frightened little fragments that are so easily manipulated.. ever since we invented economics.. what was born was a global system that destroyed self reliance.. drove people off land.. system driven by algo in financial market.. localization can help us to decentralize..
12 min – h: narrow fragmented thinking linked to mega scale.. that’s what’s killing us
q&a starting now
13 min – c: when community/place dissolves.. id is created thru relationships.. so when replaced by market/tech.. we don’t really know who we are any more.. psyche becomes unstable.. decimated micro biome.. when we understand that the self is relationship.. nothing but the restoration of relationship will help
imagine if we just focused on listening to the itch-in-8b-souls.. first thing.. everyday.. and used that data to augment our interconnectedness.. we might just get to a more antifragile, healthy, thriving world.. the ecosystem we keep longing for..
16 min – h: when children model themselves in close proximity on real people.. they never develop the sense that they have to be perfect.. we are all imperfect.. live is imperfect..t
a: i don’t think any interaction that is happening on planet right now is happening outside a construct of imposed capitalism.. it is the oxygen by which we breathe.. every interaction mediated by money.. et al
17 min – a: everything has been commodified.. transactualized.. cut off.. need both resistance and renewal
19 min – z: microbiome has been a fascinating journey into understanding how community is done w/in nature.. community doesn’t function well w/in any biologic system unless there’s extreme diversity.. as soon as you understand your id to be something other than global.. planet in space.. et al.. this is a closed system.. this thing we call earth.. as we increasingly make division points on this globe and define selves/id by these ever slighter differences.. we break down our understanding of what our purpose is w/in community..
21 min – z: fascinating thing we’ve seen in .. what happens in soil.. whether of ground or gut.. communication networks.. extreme diversification in mitochondria.. way more than we’ve seen in bacteria/fungi.. diversity w/in every single cell..
22 min – z: my study of chemo/cancer.. was understanding that the break down in this communication network.. when network tower loses its power potential in mitochondria and you can’t get signal out.. develop cancer.. can’t kill the cell and it goes on to do what we believe is this malignant process.. when in fact it’s just a cell that can’t get its communication out or can’t receive communication correctly.. and when you put in something like ().. has enough info and can kill itself..
begs a means to undo our hierarchical listening
23 min – z: on finding that nutritional food can help the communication system.. because came from (tapping into) ground w communication system.. so just as communication w/in mitochondria.. saw communication between bacteria and fungi.. and fascinatingly .. these herbicides/pesticides we’ve used for food system over last decades.. has collapsed the cell phone communication there in the extra cellular space.. t.. so we started there asking.. what are the bacteria/fungi doing .. and in their production of this wireless communication network.. they were creating the capacity for cell to cell communication and inter cellular communication on the human level to happen
getting us away from ie: organism as fractal
24 min – z: so similar to a cell phone.. in there is a transmitter and receiver that always works.. but if further away than 7 miles from closest 4g tower you don’t have reception.. cell phone can’t update info.. can’t reach people.. so you become an isolated organism.. in the same way.. when the extracellular matrix loses its bacterial/fungal communication network because of the antibiotic use in the environ.. we get isolation at the human cell level.. and the very first thing that happens at the human level when you lose that is a reduction in the capacity to make the proteins that give you self id.. and so when you lose communication you lose self id.. by losing what we call tight junctions.. the velcro that hold the barrier systems together.. so you’re gut membrane is largest barrier in body.. but after that .. blood brain barrier.. kidney tubules.. these vast systems of bio id are eroded as soon as that tele communication goes down that are made by bacteria and fungi..t
25 min – z: so it’s showing us a very elegant truth that the foundation of life has to be communication.. and if you perturb communication.. the first thing you are going to lose is self id..t
maté trump law et al
begs a means to undo our hierarchical listening
gut et al
z: and you don’t really get a fluent communication network in that microbial space until you get biodiversity..
ie: cure ios city
all the voices. everyday a new..
z: all make a slightly different version… that produce molecules..that produce communication network.. so as a whole.. produce equiv of a liquid circuit board for nature to communicate thru.. but if start to undermine biodiversity you lose communication.. lose communication lose self id.. lose self id become isolated.. and you become a cancer cell
let’s focus on undoing our hierarchical listening
z: and i would argue that humanity has become the cancer on the surface of this planet and we are sucking the energy out of the planet just as a tumor would out of the body of a human..t.. thru which that isolation has caused the death
h: i just want to say that i’m slightly worried that the measurement of the biodiversity might be something that exceeds our tools and abilities thru conventional science..t
h: for instance in ladakh.. desert landscape.. i can remember experts (even really well intentioned people) coming out there and saying.. this is impossible.. how can they have productive yields.. which is why i am so embedded to local knowledge systems and local ways forward
28 min – a: a lot of activism has become anger based and reactionary.. so.. let’s understand how the system works.. it’s just a complex/adapted/evolutionary system.. not unlike the bio.. it’s alive.. neolib.. modern capitalism..
is it? i don’t think so..
organism as fractal ness
29 min – a: there’s a set of rules.. those rules are generative.. compound interest.. just a made up fiction.. growth exceed interest rate.. that’s an insane system.. whoever has a headstart on capital.. get bigger and bigger slices of the pie.. the nature of capitalism is to concentrate wealth.. climate change, ineq.. et al are not externalities.. these are the logical outcomes of a set of rules
30 min – a: so knowing that.. we’re all going to play diff roles in how we’re going to address that ecosystem.. to be contextually relevant in times of trouble requires analysis of the problem.. and time spent in contemplation of that trouble.. it’s really up to you.. it’s our responsibility to understand what’s going on and act accordingly.. conscientious objectors.. not going to be easy.. but what we’re doing now is not easy for anyone
33 min – c: one thing for sure.. is a future worth living in is not going to have the corps we have today.. corps taking action that not a single person in them would want to do.. but corps a large part of the symptom.. have to look at large part of structure of capitalism itself.. what is capital.. system of agreements: money, property.. these are not features of reality outside itself.. so what is the basis of change of a social agreement.. part is our lived experience on our mythology of how we see the world.. capitalism itself based on trauma.. self reenforcing.. so .. stuck.. but also can act on any of these levels and be part of the solution.. ie: feel alliance w people.. but working on totally diff things.. on.. what is highest leverage point.. that everybody should be doing.. i tend to be wary of that..
37 min – h: for us localization is clearly that way of allowing/creating the space for reconnection and diversity.. it sounds like a single formula imposed.. it’s exactly the opposite.. it’s like the ultimate of ism.. the ism ending all isms..
40 min – h: we need a movement that will be looking at immediately regulating to shrink this corp system.. by decentralizing as much as possible.. to everything that can be.. operated at a local level
42 min – z: on hopelessness.. because no power big enough to take it (c) down.. but we are – we fuel – the corps.. we are afraid of our own potential.. we have potential to tap into the royal blood.. but we use stories to say we can’t face them.. when no backing to ie: us dollars.. just a bunch of zeroes and ones.. math.. no real wealth/power.. living s harlem.. the energy.. i have this sense we’re about to see the potential we have
45 min – h: could be that blm could be the break.. when things start to fall
46 min – z: we should never think we can own the land we live on.. it’s only yours until something more powerful comes along.. so what defines us.. is relationship
47 min – h: but in ladakh.. there is a grounded relationship.. not demarcated.. many who used to own land..agri.. but not in same way.. it becomes extremely difficult to imagine a situation where this would work if we have to go back pre agri and no ownership.. there are lots of ie’s that work infinitely better.. but scale was the fundamental factor there
yeah.. i don’t think we’ll get there if we compromise that.. i think property is a huge piece of the cancer we need to communicate back out of us
50 min – h: i believe the vision of localization does appeal to everyone.. talking about a growth in businesses.. rather than relying on some 10 global ones
51 min – h: on helping to restore that interdependence in the city/town.. reducing any individual to a concept ie: china, chinese, .. et al.. but when bring in something that allows (these diversities) to cooperate
54 min – c: one thing that might be helpful to communication.. is to speak to that which is in most people.. feeling of a loss of community that is natural.. i think if we can name/speak to the loss and the possibility of recovering the loss.. t
i’m thinking in all people.. maté basic needs
let’s org around that
55 min – c: ie: phrase that system only benefitting 1%.. but won’t find the happy person there.. so if we can name.. this isn’t working for anybody.. and give ie’s of what life is like in deeper connection.. at least it gives some kind of focus to this longing.. that otherwise gets satisfied w addictive function..
ie: cure ios city
58 min – c: ie of dirt poor ness.. but everybody knows everybody .. and on other side.. on seeing the rich.. but don’t see their depression/suicide.. et al.. the truncation of all these relationships effects our bodies.. we don’t have to shame/guilt people into change.. we can say.. is this really working for you..? can any sense of your wealth protected you from child getting addicted.. from loneliness.. that way we come as friend rather than opponent
1:01 – h: ie: in ladakh.. no need for phone numbers on wall to call when suicidal et al.. no pressure to be something you’re not.. i feel our best new stories come from localization.. and that’s what you’ve done alnoor
1:03 – a: our responses seem like it’s our way to do it.. but not what we’re saying.. rather.. to hold multiple ways w/o conflict.. ie: systems not working.. but if working enough for someone right not to hold onto it.. if people want to resist that (change) i support their resistance in that.. non dualistic thought ness.. we need an ecosystem of approaches
1:06 – a: i think there’s a fallacy in communication called an awareness/knowledge gap.. that people don’t have awareness.. and if we give them that awareness their knowledge will be fulfilled.. and they’ll just know.. i don’t think it’s how sophisticated our arguments are.. i think people have to have the lived experience..
a: what charles said really resonated with me.. that there is an imprint w/in us that understands this more tribal way of living.. so how do we help people create the context where they feel that experience..
ie: cure ios city
a: the communication to me is very contextual.. i think of localism as anarchism.. which is not anarchy.. it’s really about self governance/org.. that community’s ability to decide.. what matters to them..
a story about people grokking what matters
a: climate change is going to force us to live in smaller autonomous communities.. we have 10-20 yrs left max of existing system.. we can start to build that now.. and use capital to build the post capitalist world.. or we can wake up in dystopia
w/ubi as temp placebo.. needs met w/o money..people forget about measuring
1:08 – a: people who are going to survive climate are indigenous and people who are self/food sovereign .. this is the moment.. in this very little window of time.. where capital .. for all it’s ills .. is also a way to org human labor.. we have this short period of time to use what we have to build something else..
1:08 – h: i’d like for people to get org’d into those locally based communities as quickly as possible .. while naming the problem.. i think it is about a lack of awareness.. people shut down.. manipulated.. there’s a lot of work to be done to decolonize their minds.. and we don’t have many channels to reach them with that..
we do.. but ie: cure ios city
1:10 – h: i see so many projects playing out.. but end up being elitist.. because requires the money able to liberate people from this system.. that fake capital is taking everything in the opposite direction
1:11 – question: how can we re imagine govt in localized way and how to use those tools rather than abolish them
1:12 – z: i can speak to health on that.. healthcare is about 5-7x the size of military now in us.. spend about 3.7 trillion a year now on chronic disease management.. when look at its entrenched relationship to govt.. they have to be altogether or that system fails.. so the current role of govt right now is to palliate a failing system.. is how it works.. and so in end.. don’t need to fear govt any more than need to tell ourselves these co’s are too big for us to take over.. or too big for us to change.. the govts are fully deployed right now.. ie: if look at rate of aging of any leader.. reflects that they are under stress because now govt are being stretched to capacity of human ingenuity/productivity.. to palliate a broken healthcare system globally.. so now that spending all energy to manage a collapse ecology than in fighting wars.. that’s a first.. and now w pandemic.. seeing govts worldwide have to utilize healthcare as a justification to consolidate wealth now.. and so the story of this pandemic.. of fear and everything else.. was demonstrating to us just how far down the track govts are .. of no options left.. they are utilizing the last straw .. to convince us to let wealth be consolidated in hands of a few..
1:14 – z: and it’s become so blatant.. ie: every news channel dr fauci.. placed by business/academia.. saying they’re going to pump 500b into pharm co’s to develop a vaccine.. and nobody blinks.. and if we did that to correct the prison system and actually start education thru out that whole sector we would radically change gdp.. long term trajectory of wealth.. and all that.. in all of the countries of the world..
z: so i don’t think it’s a state of idiocy.. which i’m always tempted to see.. but i think that’s what’s happening is they’re stretched beyond human capacity to try to stabilize a system that they’ve been mandated to stabilize.. and it pulls them into the fool cart all the time
1:15 – z: but i think if we make the mistake of believing that they’re fools.. we’re going to fail to see our own foolishness which contributes to the paradigm that they’re trying so hard to palliate
h: i wouldn’t say fools.. but blindness and specialized.. so that they’re adhering to the dogma of growth.. and the whole (wrong) paradigm of health.. we’ve had a wrong model as a foundation of our scientific worldview.. that has just been escalating.. into a blindness.. that ends up being idiotic.. same w growth.. which is literally a measurement of break down.. if healthy.. no money exchange happens.. madness.. but we’re all mad
1: 16 – c: i was connecting what zach was saying about palliating the system.. and earlier from alnoor about only 10-20 yrs.. on a gut level.. i don’t think collapse.. climate change.. is going to save us.. i think (at) each crisis/intensification of oppressive mechs.. econ or medical.. we’re being offered a new choice point..
1:19 – c: ie: covid.. mass destruction of small business.. local econs.. tremendous concentration of wealth.. so a parallel to palliative med system.. is coming in with next palliative fix.. what i’m afraid of.. alnoor you’re more optimistic.. i’m afraid climate change won’t save us.. but that that will be considered progress.. climate change is part of bigger.. if climate collapse was going to save us.. it already would have..
1:21 – c: so if we are not going to continue choosing a deader/deader planet.. what has to change for us to choose something else.. where does that come from.. what i’m not afraid of is that our tech means are insufficient to the task of survival in a dying biosphere.. my fear is that they are sufficient.. and that we will accept that as an ok future.. consider the extent to which that has already happened.. so for me.. it’s a matter of tremendous urgency
c: yeah.. maybe we will be forced to make the changes.. that i think will only come from love.. maybe fear will force us to change.. but still only operating at half a deck if don’t speak to glorious rich possibility of life reunited w place/community/nature
1:22 – a: look.. the reality is i have no clue.. none of us know.. and i think we’re all in an ernest inquiry of all this and i think that’s beautiful.. and i don’t think the past is an indicator of the future.. we’re at the edge of consciousness.. in emergent reality right now
a: i do agree w charles.. climate change is just one facet of a deeper eco break down.. but when you’re facing that level of catastrophe.. the debt faced dollar is going to go completely.. i just don’t think we know on what level climate change is coming..
1: 24 – a: what’s really at stake is human life.. if we started building the infra now.. more human beings would be able to survive.. if return to the original structure (of nature) .. and that choice exists.. and it looks like we’re not choosing that
1:25 – a: i don’t think the growth based model is a conspiracy.. it’s just the nature of this complex game.. so we have a choice.. are we going to build an infra outside the debt based system.. (merit, ubi, degrowth econ).. these alts all exist..
we do have the means.. but no mech in place..
all the rest is partial.. and so killer.. simply perpetuating what we have now
a: the one line to end with is.. what’s the role of govt/institutions.. ? it’s to localize power.. that’s it.. if they’re not doing that.. they’re useless to us
h: i would add.. we could insist that they protect us from the predatory nature of that global capital.. what i do disagree w a bit.. we have to remember that govts themselves are being impoverished relative to this artificial creation of money.. so they’re going into their begging modes to big corps.. because they are now power of this empire of make believe money.. so really what we need to watch out for are the technopaths.. w digital money.. iot.. 5g.. to a tech part that centralizes at every level and beyond the nation state.. so the nation state could be a tool if we are at the table.. civic society.. to ensure that with the current nation state.. we insist on taking the power back from this de facto empire
wow.. disagree with all that..
1:27 – h: we get ie’s everyday of these amazing initiatives happening.. and that covid woke people up to be closer to their food.. so has also been a real awakening in terms of food/community.. let’s just hope it keeps growing..