michel on cybersyn ness
michel bauwens on cybersyn ness
googled cybersyn after reading michel’s tweet/links.. this part in particular: a landmark case study in the history of computing, decentralized economic planning, and early human-computer interaction.
to me.. the ‘failed’ part is in omitting a detox embed into the ‘computing, econ planning (aka: supply chain ness) and human/computer interaction’ otherwise.. we won’t/can’t stop at enough and so will keep perpetuating the same song.. the whac-a-mole-ing ness of sea world.. of not-us ness.. of part\ial ness.. perpetuating survival triage.. for (blank)’s sake..
and from wikipedia [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Cybersyn]:
Project Cybersyn was a Chilean economic project developed from 1971 to 1973 during the presidency of Salvador Allende (1970–1973), with the purpose of constructing a distributed *decision-support system to aid in the management of the national economy. The project consisted of four modules: an economic simulator, **custom software to check factory performance, an operations room, and a national network of telex machines that linked to a single mainframe computer.
t*o me.. we need to let go of decision ness and national ness and manage ness.. we need to try spaces of permission where people have nothing to prove to facil curiosity over decision making.. because the finite set of choices of decision making is unmooring us.. keeping us from us..
**the data we need: self-talk as data.. there’s a legit use of tech (nonjudgmental exponential labeling) to facil the seeming chaos of a global detox leap/dance.. for (blank)’s sake..
Project Cybersyn, based on a viable system model (VSM) theory *approach to organizational design, featured innovative technology at its time. It included a network of telex machines (Cybernet) in state-run enterprises that would transmit and receive information to and from the government in Santiago.
*rather.. need 1st/most: means (nonjudgmental expo labeling) to undo hierarchical listening – so we can hear what’s already on each heart as global detox in order to org around legit needs
*Information from the field would feed into statistical-modeling software (Cyberstride) that would monitor production indicators, such as raw-material supplies or high rates of worker absenteeism. **It alerted workers in near-real time. If parameters fell significantly outside acceptable ranges, it notified the central government. The information would also be input into economic simulation software (CHECO, for CHilean ECOnomic simulator). The government could use this to forecast the possible outcome of economic decisions. **Finally, a sophisticated operations room (Opsroom) would provide a space where managers could see relevant economic data. They would formulate feasible responses to emergencies and transmit advice and directives to enterprises and factories in alarm situations by using the telex network.
nothing new/diff about any of this.. just perpetuating same song.. aka: perpetuating survival triage
**makes no diff how ‘real time’ and ‘relevant’.. if still non legit data.. ie: data from whales in sea world
. In a 2014 essay for The New Yorker, technology journalist Evgeny Morozov argued that Cybersyn helped pave the way for big data and anticipated how Big Tech would operate, citing Uber’s use of data and algorithms to monitor supply and demand for their services in real time as an exampl
again.. makes no diff how ‘big’ data or tech is if still algo-ing non legit data
evgeny on ai.. evgeny on ai take 2.. et al
Writers explored Cybersyn as a model for planned economies using contemporary processing power. Authors Leigh Phillips and Michał Rozworski also dedicated a chapter on the project in their 2019 book The People’s Republic of Walmart. The authors presented a case to defend the feasibility of a planned economy aided by contemporary processing power used by large organizations such as Amazon, Walmart and the Pentagon. The authors question whether much can be built on Project Cybersyn, specifically, “whether a system used in emergency, near–civil war conditions in a single country—covering a limited number of enterprises and, admittedly, only partially ameliorating a dire situation—can be applied in times of peace and at a global scale.” The project remained uncompleted due to the military coup in 1973, which led to economic reforms by the Chicago Boys.
beyond partially ameliorating.. rather.. cancerous distraction
Finally, Morozov expanded from an essay into his own podcast series. In July 2023, Morozov produced a nine-part podcast about Cybersyn, Stafford Beer and the group around Salvador Allende, titled ‘The Santiago Boy
via michel’s tweet [https://x.com/mbauwens/status/2065290094748287071?s=20]:
I’m asking this question from DeepSeek:
“I am reading the French version of Santiago Boys of Evgeny Morozov, and am a bit in a shock. I have previously streamlined a narrative about the evolution of Cybersin which went broadly as follows: *the Cybersin successfully demonstrated the possibility of democratic cybernetically-enabled planning by overcoming the trucker’s strike under Chile’s Allende government; and was a priority for destruction by the Pinochet coup. Subsequently, the Chicago Boys economic advizers which were called in by the military government, would apply these lessons and **develop the neoliberal global supply chains, partially inspired by Cybersin. However, as I’m reaching page 175 of this book, I can only conclude that Cybersin was actually never used succesfully at all. Can you elaborate on this. ***Should I abandon my thesis altogether ?”
rather.. we need tech w/o judgment to undo hierarchical listening as global detox so we can org around legit needs
**again.. we can ‘supply’ all we want.. but always/forever/still a cancerous distraction until we grok and org around legit needs
***nothing to date has gotten to the root of problem
legit freedom will only happen if it’s all of us.. and in order to be all of us.. has to be sans any form of measuring, accounting, people telling other people what to do
how we gather in a space is huge.. need to try spaces of permission where people have nothing to prove to facil curiosity over decision making.. because the finite set of choices of decision making is unmooring us.. keeping us from us..
ie: imagine if we listen to the itch-in-8b-souls 1st thing everyday & use that data to connect us (tech as it could be.. ai as augmenting interconnectedness)
the thing we’ve not yet tried/seen: the unconditional part of left to own devices ness
[‘in an undisturbed ecosystem ..the individual left to its own devices.. serves the whole’ –dana meadows]
there’s a legit use of tech (nonjudgmental exponential labeling) to facil the seeming chaos of a global detox leap/dance.. for (blank)’s sake..
ie: whatever for a year.. a legit sabbatical ish transition
otherwise we’ll keep perpetuating the same song.. the whac-a-mole-ing ness of sea world.. of not-us ness.. of part\ial ness.. perpetuating survival triage.. for (blank)’s sake..
note: on survival ness: survival is a means to survive things as they are.. so to me.. not a legit alt.. it’s triage.. perpetuating survival triage.. so a temp band aide per se.. that will /can help now.. but only for short term.. because it still doesn’t get to the root of the problem.. so it won’t offer/lead-to legit change/life/freedom.. et al.. so.. to me.. it’s still a cancerous distraction to the dance
If you are interested in the reply, here it is: https://chat.deepseek.com/share/pwo0wpfnm6y7f2afp3
notes/quotes from deepthink link:
Your shock is entirely understandable. You’ve stumbled upon a core tension in the history of Project Cybersyn: the powerful, inspiring narrative versus the messy, constrained reality of its actual operation.
this is why i can’t unsee and can’t not keep after what we found in our on the ground ness.. it was getting to the root of problem
a problem deep enough to resonate w/8b today.. via a mechanism simple enough to be accessible/usable to 8b today.. in an ecosystem open enough to set/keep 8b legit free
ie: org around a problem deep enough (aka: org around legit needs) to resonate w/8b today.. via a mechanism simple enough (aka: tech as it could be) to be accessible/usable to 8b today.. and an ecosystem open enough (aka: sans any form of m\a\p) to set/keep 8b legit free
Let’s examine your thesis and what Morozov’s work is pushing you to reconsider.The coup was the executioner, but the project was already terminally ill.
again.. legit freedom will only happen if it’s all of us.. and in order to be all of us.. has to be sans any form of measuring, accounting, people telling other people what to do.. otherwise: terminally ill (aka: cancerous distraction)
The project was plagued by bureaucracy and a lack of political support; before the coup, the government agency running it was ready to “pull the plug”
rather.. everything to date = too much ness
The Chicago Boys were inspired by Cybersyn to create global supply chains.
and again.. we can ‘supply chain’ all we want.. but it will always/forever/still just be a cancerous distraction until we grok and org around legit ne
The Chicago Boys were monetarist economists from the University of Chicago, a very different intellectual tradition. While they used data and modeling, this is a far cry from being “inspired” by Cybersyn’s democratic, socialist planning model.
as cybersyn demo planning whatever ness is a far cry from legit free people
False. This appears to be a speculative leap that connects two major historical events without evidence.
makes no diff when ‘major events’ are same song
💡 Should You Abandon Your Thesis?
Instead of abandoning your thesis entirely, consider re-writing and re-focusing it. The story you’re interested in is more interesting and tragic than the one you first envisioned.
1\ Acknowledge the Tragedy of Cybersyn: The narrative is not about a triumphant machine that was destroyed by a coup. It is the story of a brilliant, flawed, and incomplete project. Its fate was sealed not only by the violence of the coup but also by its own internal contradictions and the chaotic politics of the time. This “tragedy” is a central theme of Morozov’s podcast, The Santiago Boys .
any part\ial ness is incomplete.. has to be all of us for the dance to dance
2\ Reframe the “Inspiration” Argument: The most intriguing part of your thesis is the connection between the socialist project and the neoliberal future. Instead of direct inspiration, you could argue that Pinochet’s regime learned a different, darker lesson from the failure of a state-led economy: the need for total, technocratic control. The Chicago Boys didn’t copy Beer’s hardware; they fulfilled his opponents’ dystopian fantasy of a society run by cold, calculating logic, but for the benefit of capital, not the people .
In summary, your original thesis is a myth—a powerful one, but a myth nonetheless. The reality is that Cybersyn was a fragile experiment that showed flashes of brilliance but was never the functioning system of legend. Its historical importance lies more in what it represented and what it tried to do than in what it actually accomplished.
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be you. 