massimo de angelis

massimo de angelis.png

intro’d to Massimo while reading David Bollier‘s think like a commoner:


‘the more we depend on money and markets to satisfy our needs and follow our desire the more we are exposed to a vicious circle of dependency that pits livelihoods against each other’ – massimo de angelis (@mda_commoning) – commons scholar..

broken feedback loop


taking him in here first -2 hrs – (2017?) – Commons and Social Movements: []

5 min – shock doctrine.. at same time a solution rising from below.. occupieds et al.. ie: potato network

shock doctrine

7 min – key – point is to highlight that in moment of crisis there are 3 phenom occuring 1\ opposing capital  2\ social movements.. struggles to resist that discipline  3\ practices attempt to create alts.. can’t wait for result.. if movement is successful.. et al

8 min – there is a social force attempting to create a space for alts

9 min – what we usually call commons.. 1\ plan a – go on as it is – which means more impoverished and dispossession for people  2\ plan b – fantasy return to canaanism.. more return to states  3\ plan c – commons.. a diff way of thinking the org of society

10 min – on relationship between struggles and the power of capital

11 min – my approach is that there is an interrelation between struggles and the development of capital

marx: it would be possible to write quite a history of the inventions made since 1830, for the sole purpose of supplying capital w weapons against the revolts of the working class


17 min – so naive question.. if there is an interrelation between struggles and capital.. how the hell we change the world.. how do we move beyond a regime of a mode of productions.. which we know create oppressions/ is it possible to build new models.. the elephant in the room nobody talks about..

ie: tech as it could be..

2 convers as infra

19 min – what i want to provide is not an answer.. but a framework to try to frame the answer.. and i start from the question of commons.. because i think in the commons we find an elementary form of this new *mode of production.. as for the commodity is the elementary form for marx of the capitalist wealth.. in the commons we find elementary form of post capitalism wealth/life

why production..?

when we talk about commons.. we are talking about commons w/in fields of power relations.. we’re not talking about commons as a model to apply.. i’m quite resistant at any time to romanticize commons.. like say.. what is the actual true commons that we seek to apply.. no.. that’s not the way to do it i think..

20 min – so the question is first understanding commons in a power relations.. and the first is of course.. vis a vis .. the drive to enclose commons that capital always has as a recurrent strategy..

22 min – ostrom brought recently to attention.. after 2009 nobel.. and her work was important.. argue against hardin’s tragedy who wrote in 68 – the tragedy


nobel ness

tragedy of commons

24 min – ostrom’s strength was to recognize the role of the community.. to govern the commons

so.. if you say commons is about power.. do you think it needs governing..?

25 min – to ostrom.. governing commons is on governing ecosystem.. not about power.. she wanted to point out.. not a political point.. more a rational choice of who governs better.. govt or commoners.. (problematic)

26 min – my take is i believe commons are social systems.. starting with the problemitization that commons are common goods..  everybody seems to talk about common goods.. and

i think there is a limitation to talk about common goods if we want to see commons as a transformative power..t

augmenting interconnectedness to get back/to common ing

27 min – let me say.. i prefer ‘system’ rather than ‘common goods’..  i think we can derive the defn of systems in the very moment we reflect and problematize what we mean by common goods.. so let me start from common goods..

beginning of capital start from the commodity.. not from capital.. so in certain aspect i paraphrase marks.. his own method on the common good

28 min – the summary: what is a common good.. on one hand it is a use value for a plurality.. but.. it’s not just a plurality.. there are many things that are use value for a plurality that are not common goods.. ie: airport lounge; train station; sidewalk; or even commodities

those should be common sidewalk..?

the diff is.. this plurality.. unlike ie’s i just gave you..  is not silent.. so in order to have a common good we need to have a plurality that speak up and act upon their words

oh dang.. i’m hoping you’re going here.. ie: tech as it could be.. that listens to all the voices.. because it has to be all of us.. everyday..

because just speaking up isn’t the point.. ie: could be whales at sea world.. we need to also be alive.. we need first/alongside the energy of 7bn alive people

what we need is a mech to listen to cure ios city.. everyday. . as augmenting interconnectedness.. as common ing..

29 min – (so on one hand use value for plurality).. on the other hand it requires a plurality claiming and sustaining the ownership of the common goods and this can be done only thru the creation of relational values..

ie: augmenting interconnectedness.. via 2 convers as infra

when i say owning.. i’m not talking about a legal aspect of owning.. i’m talking about a sense of ownership.. when we claim commons like feeling commons.. *we don’t own it but we claim it as a commons

*thinking if we say everything is common good (including ie: sidewalks) .. for the commoning commoners (has to be all of us) .. we don’t even have to claim it

hardt & negri property law.. wilde property law

30 min – so in the very moment we define collectively something as a commons.. we engage in a controversial defn.. so we are immediately engaged in a form of struggle

yeah.. i’m seeing that as wasted energy..  let’s just say.. all people.. all things..

so how does it claim it..? thru creation of relational value.. by measuring .. assessing..

ugh .. no.. let go of money/measure..

giving a particular sense to the social relation.. thru which the common goods are reproduced and their use value distributed or accessed among the commons

too much work.. if we get the framework right.. ie: only 2 rules/2 convers.. as infra addressing basic needs of all people today.. then we can let go of all this time/energy consuming ness

ie: undisturbed ecosystem:

‘in undisturbed ecosystems ..the average individual, species, or population, left to its own devices, behaves in ways that serve and stabilize the whole..’

31 min – in so doing.. the common good is turned into an element of a common system.. or briefly .. a commons

i’m seeing elements as too stagnant.. for systems.. for commoning..

*so the moment we define as a common good we begin the struggle of reclaiming the commons which is the process of commoning.. t.. whether we are successful or not

dang.. what a waste of energy.. i’d say that’s more the process of ie: detox.. not of commoning.. commoning begs a reset.. (which we have the means to do today).. commoning is about living in sync.. w no need to label.. reclaim.. et al.. it’s a dance we need to get back/to.. not a fight to get there..

so basically .. you’re saying struggling is commoning..?

*why spend time/energy on reclaiming.. i don’t see reclaiming as commoning

we’re setting ourselves up for another tragedy .. and.. we’re putting us all on hold

commons as a system has 2 major structure elements and a process that allows those structure elements to be reproduced in diff forms.. on one side 1\ the community  and 2\ that resource .. and the process: commoning.. which recreate the systems

32 min – in the beginning of history.. in my book i have pointed out.. that capital.. as a social force.. so as a social system.. has a particular *conatus of self preservation.. conatus from spinoza – something  you can’t avoid..

*conatus:  Latin for “effort; endeavor; impulse, inclination, tendency; undertaking; striving”) is an innate inclination of a thing to continue to exist and enhance itself.

33 min – this conatus of self preservation that capital has.. it can’t avoid.. it needs to accumulate.. to grow.. as an accumulation of monetary value

34 min – the conatus of the commons is reproduction and sustainability..

ok.. i’d prefer eudaimoniative surplus.. again: undisturbed ecosystem

how indigenous and peasant communities around the world deal w their resources they recognize to depend on for their own livelihood.. how they reproduce those resources.. they use them in such a way that they are sustainable.. unless of course other factors come in.. but in terms of their own internal operations.. this is what they do

affluence w/o abundance

35 min – so this process/conatus of self preserv of the commons is thru their auto reproduction..thru their own operations/codes/values

36 min – systems.. there is a circular movement about reproduction

37 min – often times these relations are a relation of struggle.. but other times.. of adaptation

this all sounds so defensive.. reactive

38 min – let’s focus on the boundaries.. for ostrom was important but to define the commons but not to seek in search of expansion of the commons..for us important to problematize the boundaries to seek expansion

i don’t see boundaries in commoning.. so.. more wasted energy if we were to reset first..

40 min – one very important boundary: property..  you know there’s private property.. that’s not the commons..  and collective property that is a commons.. well *no.. i don’t think so..  and actually it’s a good thing because it allows us to see things more openly and seize the opp to create commons w/o being brain washed by traditional communistic ideologies

i hope you are saying *no about .. no property.. ness

41 min – ostrom on notion of property.. not something you buy or sell.. but a (bundle?) of rights.. gives opp to turn even private property into the conditions of commons creation

ie: who accesses/withdraws/excludes/alienation (?)

? wtf

43 min – italy movement of social stewarting.. using abandoned land

45 min – on squatting.. using up energy.. settle a place them move in 6 months

49 min – position of subjects in relation to commons..

52 min – (when talking about whether or not the space they are all in in that classroom .. is a commons) .. how do we use situations we are in to expand the commons

53 mi – in our life we are passing thru a variety of social systems..  and a variety of commons.. essentially by daily life we are provided by great opps to making connections w all those systems..

54 min – relation between commons and capital..

57 min – it’s great to go beyond money.. but we have to start from where we are.. we can’t abolish the world as it is from.. so my attempt is to see what is the diff role of money for diff positionalities

let’s try this: short bp – enough money so a fractal of all of us can not think about money..


cure ios city

holmgren indigenous law

as it could be..

2 convers.. as infra

ie: hlb via 2 convers that io dance.. as the day..[aka: not part\ial.. for (blank)’s sake…]..  a nother way

the energy of 7bn alive people

undisturbed ecosystem:

‘in undisturbed ecosystems ..the average individual, species, or population, left to its own devices, behaves in ways that serve and stabilize the whole..’

in the city.. as the day..

gershenfeld something else law


common ing.. aka: augmenting interconnectedness

let go of money/measure..



tragedy of commons


city as commons (policy reader)

YochaiStavrosMichaelMichelDavidElinorAndreas , Silke, …..

commons transition

the commons (doc)

the omni commons


city ness


perhaps.. give 1 yr to try commons (common\ing) a go..

in the cityas the day. ness

ie: hosting-life-bits via self-talk as data.. as the day.. (aka: not partial)


find/follow Massimo:

link twitter

on uni of east london site:

Massimo De Angelis is Professor of Political Economy and Social Change and co-director of the Centre for Social Justice and Change. He has a Degree in Political Sciences (Milan, 1985) and a PhD in Economics (Salth Lake City, 1995). His current research is on Commons as social systems, their design, resilience, sustainability and strategy of development within the context of multimodal crises of contemporary neolibearal capitalism.

on wealth of commons site:

Massimo De Angelis (Italy) is Professor of Political Economy at the University of East London. He is author, most recently, of The Beginning of History: Value Struggles and Global Capital, and editor of The Commoner web journal, at