indy on org
via indy johar quote tweet [https://x.com/indy_johar/status/1791109894503866744] of simone cicero tweet linking to 1 h podcast [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHNfSQ2sYz8]:
May 13, 2024Indy Johar, Mission Steward of Dark Matter Labs, joins the podcast to help us *rethink how we organize ourselves and our systems, addressing inadequacies of traditional business models that are no longer sufficient for managing complexities. Bringing light to how “risk management should be localized, with **decision-making power and accountability being as close to the problem as possible,” Indy argues for an organization that encourages participants to be citizens rather than employees and fosters continuous and accountable learning among individuals.
*need to org around legit needs
**need to try curiosity over decision making
how we gather in a space is huge.. need to try spaces of permission where people have nothing to prove to facil curiosity over decision making.. because the finite set of choices of decision making is unmooring us.. keeping us from us.. ie: whatever for a year.. a legit sabbatical ish transition
Tune into this episode and learn from Indy, a veteran in building mission-driven organizations, who has always stayed ahead of the curve. Indy – who joins the podcast for the 3rd time – besides stewarding the mission at Dark has also recently joined RMIT University, teaching no less than “Planetary Civics”, a testament to his influence in the space of social innovation. As always, Indy comes with a profound understanding of designing complex organizations for the 21st century, from his hands-on experience in creating radical innovations in governance, architecture, and social systems, particularly in sustainability and collaborative economy. He starts the podcast with philosophical considerations about the nature of complex organizations and then highlights the *need for a radical shift toward a learning-centered organization. In the conversation, we question the traditional metrics of productivity and value, and further advocate for **new metrics that account for collective intelligence and systemic contributions rather than individual output.
There was no better way to celebrate our 100th episode because this one is a landmark. Grab a notepad and pick a pen, because there’s much to pin down.
Key Highlights
Organizational structures in a complex world, and a shift from command-and-control to systemic learning and adaptability.
Decentralized risk management and the need to localize decision-making to enhance responsiveness and effectiveness.
Dark Matter Labs’ mission-driven approach, emphasizing partnerships over traditional consultancy to enable sustainable change.
Need for a paradigm shift in how value is defined and measured within organizations, moving towards incorporating multi-dimensional success indicators.
not a paradigm shift if still defining and measuring
Redefining organizational roles to encourage craft and citizenship, where individuals contribute to the organization’s decision-making processes.
Rethinking legal structures governing organizations, moving towards frameworks that support distributed risk and empower collective action.
Topics /chapters 00:00 Learning Centered Organizations for the 21st Century with Indy Johar – Intro 01:40 Introducing Indy Johar 10:31 Value of Learning as a Strategic Advantage 14:41 Accelerating Learning and Modifying Organizational Agendas 19:23 Structure in a post-managerial economy 24:46 The Design of Dark Matter Labs 34:19 Citizenship inside Organizations 41:54 Citizen or Employee? 47:25 Money making machine to avenues of value 55:16 Breadcrumbs and Suggestions Remember that you can always find tra
notes/quotes from video:
I really thinking about this coming from two lens one defensibility and two they come in from consensus or or consent one they come in I’m going to defend myself and two they come in how do you make decisions while all decisions should be consensus orientation.. actually both the problematic we have to change our theory of decisions outside theories of consensus to be able to deal with complexity of situation..t
actually.. need to try curiosity over decision making so can let complexity dance/approach to infinity
infinitesimal structures approaching the limit of structureless\ness and/or vice versa .. aka: ginorm/small ness
again
how we gather in a space is huge.. need to try spaces of permission where people have nothing to prove to facil curiosity over decision making.. because the finite set of choices of decision making is unmooring us.. keeping us from us.. ie: whatever for a year.. a legit sabbatical ish transition
3 min – *the real challenge of 21st cent is how we organize ourselves..t how we organize ourselves and how we organize ourselves in relationship to the world and I think actually everything else falls out of that..t and I think most of our challenges are in the mis/mal organization of ourselves..t that we construct mostly externalities that we are facing in many formats.. so personally a genuine space of inquiry and unknowness in it so maybe to sort of get into this conversation what I sort of say is like the thing I’m really finding fascinating right now and the thing that I’m really holding is that if you’re building an organism in a complex emergent world then **your theory of organizing has to be rooted not in control..t and has to be rooted in building the learning capacity of the organism and if every agent in the organism is able to learn and adjust and support Adjust and support the learning of the rest of the system you build a ***completely different theory of organizing in an increasingly complex emergent world where every action and every agency is relational and in situational theories of Commander control centralized prescription are no longer sufficient for organisms to be relevant or metal organisms to be relevant they have to be able to create a new theory of organisms organizing rooted in ****building systemic learning capacity and the systemic correlationality of the system to be able to learn and be in relational dialogue with each other
*ie: need means (nonjudgmental expo labeling) to undo hierarchical listening as global detox so we can org around legit needs
**aka: sans any form of measuring/accounting/people telling other people what to do
***but not legit diff if still based on learning/adapting.. need undisturbed ecosystem
1\ undisturbed ecosystem (common\ing) can happen
2\ if we create a way to ground the chaos of 8b legit free people
****sounds like still too much control for the dance to dance
5 min – looks like a philosophical question and it probably is at a Top Root level but if you follow that hypothesis all the way through it *changes the very theory and practice of organizing and what the nature of an organism is and I think to me if you’re going to be successful in the 21st century you have to move from a control orientated system of organizing to a **learning orientated Asian fight system of organizing where people are ***not instructable systems but learning systems and building not only individual learning but building very accumulative learning the compound learning of the system I would say one thing for me was that ****this requires a very intentional design it requires intentionally countering the legal structure of organisms which accumulate centralized .. t risk
*something we havent yet done.. because we can’t seem to let go enough of that hard won order to see.. the dance
**rather.. needs to be sans any form of m\a\p.. any form of re ness
***yeah ok.. as long as no prep.. no train.. no supposed to’s
****if still countering something/anything.. not intentional enough toward that no control ness.. will eventually just be same song
6 min – *I think this is the philosophical end game of what i call industrial linear control organizing that it’s become informational impossible.. t and one resolution of this has been what I would argue is building the platform organism as a means to lay out that complexity and to be able to create and there by moving the theory of control into what I would call algorithmetrical parametric theories of control which allow for particular situational variants which **allow for a degree of freedom of the agent in a prescribed system and that creates some degree of freedom but I think the problem is that it’s still fundamentally rooted in a theory of control with a greatest degree of it doesn’t invite it doesn’t invite learning and it doesn’t invite care it ***increases the freedom space of operation but doesn’t build embodied agency of care..t
*deeper.. using wrong/nonlegit data.. imagine if we listen to the itch-in-8b-souls 1st thing everyday & use that data to connect us (tech as it could be.. ai as augmenting interconnectedness as nonjudgmental expo labeling)
**oi
***if talking legit care (not graeber violence in care law).. need legit freedom and that will only happen if it’s all of us.. and in order to be all of us.. has to be sans any form of m\a\p
9 min – on being in a space and relationality
10 min – There is something really interesting about how do you build an organism which is rooted and compound learning at speed in order to build out you also then have to build a *new theory of citizenship a behavioral model which is rooted into being part of this compound learning institution and relation art and I think thereby you **also have to shift your theory of metrics of like I don’t even know how do you classify the growing collective intelligence of a system how do you hold that intelligence in the system what are the kind of metrics of success in our system in a different way..t so I think and then that opens up a whole different theory of what I’d call Value like you know the value is no longer a single point productivity value but it’s a compounding value of the system in a completely different way so the Dynamics of this starts to shift and I find that super fastinating
*oh my.. this is not rooting out control.. oi
**not diff if still metric/intellect/behavior/citizen ing.. cancerous distractions we can’t seem to let go of
ff
stopping here for now
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be you. 