nora on voice-change

nora bateson (@NoraBateson) tweeted at 6:06 AM on Sun, Dec 22, 2019:
The meta message matters…
Tim Adalin and I discuss the voice of change.. And the change of voice. #systemschange

convo on voice with Nora and @tim_adalin of voiceclub – (1:30)

6 min – n: the spaces between words where you don’t know what you’re going to say.. that’s important.. this is the warm data.. so how do we tell this story and include the warm data.. changing the rhythm/texture/tone.. so that that set of meta messages can begin to bubble up.. and i don’t even know what they are so i have to make space for them.. and this is not how you do media.. it should be scripted/concise/tight/whole.. i had to practice.. i didn’t know how to get there.. that discovery process has been going on finding a voice.. part of that is recognizing that it has to be a voice w room to learn in it.. it’s not like a schtick that i can just dial in.. turn on/off

detox/idio-jargon/self-talk as data – everyday anewcuriosity over decision making

9 min – tim: one of the most radical ideas i can begin to articulate is articulating this notion of what is it to be off script.. but nevertheless from an attention of authentic betterment of self/society.. if you allow yourself to drop in on that.. it is what it is.. it’s not clear what’s going to come up

imagine if we just focused on that.. 8b people.. everyday

off script ness

12 min – tim: it seems a necessity for us to create ways of being in the world that are not pre planned..t (jordan hall might call game a)

let’s just facil daily curiosity  ie: cure ios city

2 convers as infra.. via tech as it could be..

no train.. no prep

13 min – n: for me this is really an important piece because i’m coming into this from another angle.. the way i was brought into this body of work.. around complexity and systems thinking.. before i read all the books and did the academic work.. it was actually just how i learned to live life.. it was how the convos went at breakfast when i was a toddler

already in it ness.. this is why we can leap.. if there’s a mech (tech as it could be) in place to ground/detox the chaos (augment our interconnectedness))

14 min – n: people (systems) said.. these ideas can’t be put into that (film) form.. but the thing is i was coming from it in one direction.. the direction in which they were lived .. it took me a long time to really recognized that that was something i had to offer

15 min – n: one of the things about that is.. that if it’s not lived.. it’s still over there somewhere.. something you’re talking about.. and what i’m really interested in.. is that within.. when it is the deep mode from which you respond .. in the moment.. off script.. at that level.. what questions are you asking.. what’s bubbling up.. (so that not diff things ie: on and off camera)

16 min – n: when i was finding that voice in this world.. which .. didn’t really exist.. we have a community now.. back in 2009.. when i wanted to make a film about complexity.. everybody was like .. what.. if talking about bringing all together.. the voice.. deep impulses around which this defragmentation becomes expression.. becomes lived.. that’s key.. what does it look like to be in complexity and not be talking about complexity with whoever..

19 min – n: it’s a big shift from the whiteboard/ppt/competition.. (from) the forming of an id that has status in a particular set of communities.. to look to .. we’re just living life..

23 min – (tim asked to what degree fear/trauma play in blocking us from a more contextual relationship w being) n: i don’t know. . i don’t know where the edges are or if it’s worthwhile to make edges between identified diff emotional states.. we have a vocab/language/culture that loves to divide things.. t.. and remembering that there are very diff emotions possible to describe in other languages

language as control/enclosure

n: and also.. i don’t know.. can you have fear.. w/o love/joy/hope/hopelessness.. how can you separate hope and hopeless ness.. there’s that meme around fear that i kind of get allergic too.. it’s creates some binary that there’s some land w/o fear in which it would be more advisable to be having your responses.. but i don’t know about that.. my feeling is that when i’m afraid of something.. it’s probably telling me something that’s useful.. i don’t know how to .. w any kind of complexity in mind.. how do you know where the edge of you actually is

25 min – n: mental health and data gathering..  ‘how are we knowing what we know about any of this’ – what is mental health.. to deal w mental health.. we’re going to have to be talking about a lot more than people’s state of mind.. so then back in context.. you can’t separate.. to think we can get those grapes out of the wine and analyze.. i think we have to pause there

28 min – n: there’s been a feeding on the ghost in our culture that wants to eat memes and it’s driving me crazy.. it’s a river of memes out there.. it’s really difficult to get out of the memes.. gathering to gathering.. things that were said before..  ie: collective intelligence.. this notion is already starting to park..ossify.. another one is sensemaking.. both terminology i have use.. i’m just saying heads up..  the context we live in wants to jargon ize things.. when we jargon ize them we don’t look around the corner any more.. you’re not in that improvisational/off-script space anymore

this is why idio-jargon matters so much to our freedom

meme ness

30 min – n: we are in a double bind.. take the tension of (bound by) the script..  it’s not easy.. it’s a serious attention.. that’s what i’m really calling for.. to develop that attention.. that we are and we are w/in .. that i would call warm data.. that is actually not on the page.. what does it mean to work w that clay.. what it transforms is not the ideas.. but the space behind the ideas.. what is the petri dish.. from which these ideas are bubbling.. what kind of aesthetic are they.. and there your question of fear comes in again.. what is that.. that place from which.. it is scary..  ie: i’m scared for my kids in the world right now.. and i don’t think that fear misinforms me.. because i also love this beautiful world..

that space behind the ideas.. perhaps daily curiosity  ie: cure ios city

34 min – n: again.. it’s coming back to that notion of isolation.. isolation of the individual/emotion/idea/intention.. of the aspects of myself from which i’m speaking and trying to drop into that place with you here now.. where i’m still 7 yrs old.. who had all sorts of dreams/horizons.. and also this person now.. we are complex.. and that’s not just fodder for the groovy meme machine

40 min – n: on why are you leaving (marriage).. i could not bring my complexity to that question.. she asked me a question that was an invitation to reduction ism.. (concretism).. it was so culturally justified that i almost fell in the well.. we need to have room for understandings that need to occur to occur.. ie: i can’t be in complexity in this question.. and how many questions/surveys/discourses/technique/methodology.. are all gearing/limiting thinking into particular pre grooved possibilities.. and how are we going to get out of the mess we’re in if we don’t start to pay attention to the limits that get prescribed by the way/things that we express

this is huge.. language as control/enclosure

42 min – n: when i’m engaging w you.. i want you to feel like your complexity is welcome in this convo.. we’re not in a competition.. i’m not here to judge you.. i’m here to explore.. where we are together.. and that means i have to be really careful.. because the dignity i can offer .. is watching out for exactly that kind of question.. ‘why are you doing this’.. well .. if i give you an answer.. what will i not be able to say.. what have i prohibited from coming into the convo by the very aesthetic of the convo.. that’s why for me.. it’s really important to go into a very lively/looser.. but still very attentive.. hyper rigorous.. deep.. metaphorical.. exploration space.. i want to have that be something that is something comfortable.. but not like a soft chair.. like good hiking boots that make you want to go somewhere

or both.. no? ie: what does it mean to not go somewhere

50 min – n: i’m thinking about.. how we say what we want.. project: people need people.. what i’m noticing.. this convo turns out to be about voice.. about what it is to give/have/share voice.. this is a community question..  it’s only possible to be in a community w/in a particular set of possibilities..

yeah .. i don’t know about that.. finite set of choices et al.. i think that has been our man made myth.. but not our true being.. we’ve limited what it means to be in community

51 min – n: so.. one thing i’m noticing.. there are all these communities so deeply fragmented.. they need that list.. of everything (climate, mental health, ed, housing,..).. essentially all of those things are handled by diff institutions/orgs.. so the experience of being in community is often a process of having the health person come in and offer advice .. et al.. when dealing w this.. nobody ever asking the community what they want.. i’m going to let that sit for a moment and just feel the meme

not even about asking what community wants.. (because don’t really know ..if no solitude first.. and even if did.. someone\s would be oppressed).. this is why 2 convers as infra is so key

53 min – n: what happens is this.. ask the community what they want and they have absolutely .. no other possibility than to respond based on .. what’s on the menu.. and we’re back in the same epistemological double bind trap .. of everything that they can ask for being already compartmentalized/fragmented/siloed

yeah..  spinach or rock ness

54 min – n: so this is what i mean about what kind of voice/communication is given to offer a diff kind of response.. where there’s an invitation to go beyond the expectation of what’s on the menu..t

daily curiosity  ie: cure ios city.. via 2 convers as infra with tech as it could be..

n: if in restaurant and i ask what do you want to eat.. you’re going to think.. what’s on the menu.. this is an important way of looking at how we are w each other and how much generosity we can afford toward getting to a new dimension of questions/communication.. because right now it feels like we just keep driving ourselves back down the same holes.. because the patterns drive us there

55 min – n: that question of .. what do you want.. what is your vision for a new future.. what is game b.. part of that tension is around.. what’s on the menu.. what could game b be.. how do we begin to think about that in ways that are loose from the existing structures.. this is not a trivial matter..t

2 convers as infra

56 min – n: the need to de fragment as individuals.. to bring that 7 yr old here.. to this convo about complexity and this extreme emergency.. we have got to get .. to a little peek hole out of the epistemology frameworks we are in so we can even see another possibility..


57 min – n: so the love in that is loving that rigor.. that is not a relaxed love.. because i love this world/people/community.. i will not ask those questions that drive it back down in the same rabbit holes.. or just.. i’ll try not to.. even the tonality/humility of trying is big

1:06 – harari talking about free will.. if you think you have free will you really don’t have free will.. what’s on the menu is the neurocog response to everything we’re in..but the minute you know you don’t have free will.. it frees you up

yeah  as whales in sea world

 1:08 – n: daughter.. how can i be a good person when everything i do links me to this violent extraction..

costello screen service

1:09 – n: there has been a veneer that has been lifted for her and for a lot of people.. where there was an assumption that the structures we live in.. that they provided the structures w/in which you could be a good person.. but that man behind the curtain has now been exposed.. and so .. what do i say to my daughter.. there’s no responses of.. it’s all up to you .. it’ll be ok.. et al.. for a kid that awake.. so all i can say.. is.. as long as long as you’re asking that question.. you’re on the right track.. it’s not like she’s not doing good stuff – addiction – but that’s not enough..

1:13 – n: we’re in a generational moment of exploration all around us.. this new fibering of relationships.. and what is the language that we can even talk about this..t.. it is not bs

daily curiosity.. via idio-jargon

1:14 – n: how do we begin to work that together.. and help each other to go there because that’s what we need.. the ability to respond to the detail with an understanding of the context..

1:16 – n: it’s about how we are responding in the moment in detail with the complexity on board.. in bone.. in blood.. it’s about.. can you do this when it counts (dad’s hitchhiker.. adrenaline never spiked because of his response to a knife.. how didi you get yourself in this situation.. he didn’t respond to the knife.. he responded to the person.. you can’t game/script/plan that.. it requires deep/lifetime dedication to looking for contextual material in every detail.. )

1:19 – n: love in the sense of brokenness.. and capacity to be in your own brokenness and be w somebody else’s brokenness and go forward together.. if we’re going to script some stuff.. let’s think about what those stories can tell us.. who/how it’s possible to be

1:22 – n: and it can’t be hacked.. how we’re going to go forward w/o hacking the process of going forward.. and it’s really important that there’s a lot of care

indeed.. this is the security of idio-jargon .. 2 convers as infra.. et al

1:24 – n: what world was i invited to live in in which that was the communication possibility (dad hitchhiker story)

1:25 – n: so when i’m dealing w these questions around fear/unknown.. they’re not dangling meat.. i’m not out on the edge of a precipice.. because when i was little i saw it held in contextual affection and extreme rigor.. and there was humor.. the pain was never diminished but neither was the folly of humanity.. so that changes the positioning to begin with.. and maybe that’s something to be really working on.. how do we shift the baseline from which we’re even talking about the unknown

yes.. that’s it.. shift the baseline.. listen to and facil daily curiosity  ie: cure ios city

curiosity over decision making (or questions or whatever)

maté parenting law.. 1 yr to be 5 again.. et al

1:27 – this is why the memes are driving me crazy.. this need to present the possible future where we get it all right and we’re suddenly whole again.. all of that is actually gonna be really messy/kinky/weird.. it’s not going to make sense.. one of my fav complexity thinkers on the planet right now is cardi b.. she’s nailing it.. and it’s messy/funky.. the future doesn’t look like something clean/clear.. but to hold each other in the mess..  stop tampering w the sense making.. which are ok and which aren’t.. the guy w the knife.. there was no repression.. it was simply.. what have we here..


from Nic’s monday dec 23 2019 newsletter

Andreas Words

detox for the soul/heart