hameed on role of trauma
from maté and almaas on trauma series
alex: hameed bio – diamond approach.. i’ve been a part of this for a couple of decades.. how trauma can be portal for awakening..
3 min – h: sufi: ‘humanity is asleep’.. that’s the state of humanity.. meaning.. most people are not awake.. only a few awake people in the world.. so awakening is a real thing for people.. but it is possible for all people .. because we all have spiritual/true nature.. deep, happy, peaceful, perfect.. but most people are not in touch w it.. they are in touch w the self.. what i call the ego self.. gives them a sense of id and orientation in the world.. and how to operate et al
almaas holes law et al
5 min – h: but in that process the person loses touch w their innate inherent nature they come to the world with.. like babies are still in touch w true nature and that gets lost. . thru conditioned impressions that remains in the consciousness.. conditioned to be in a certain way.. and that becomes the self.. and they experience the world thru the lenses of the self
6 min – h: so even the presumption of the world is not exactly how the world really is.. so how most people are seeing the world is not how it is..t.. so awakening is to be free from this self.. and to be able to experience the world/self free from the lenses that have developed thru out history.. meaning experiencing self and reality completely w no filters..
history ness is killing us.. all non legit data.. et al..
2\ if we create a way to ground the chaos of 8b free people
7 min – when we experience ourselves that way.. you are what you are.. not what i think it is.. there are diff expressions of awakening .. but all are that we are not being our self.. but something other.. something that is our true nature.. perfect, happy, generous, compassionate, being ness
maté basic needs – as essence..
let’s org around/for that
8 min – alex: we’re not talking about a binary awake/asleep.. you talk of endless enlightenment.. there is an ongoing path of deeper contact w oneself
h: that’s because enlightenment has many kinds of enlightenment and it can deepen/expand.. but there is a demarcation from somebody who is awake and somebody who is not awake.. it’s a quantum jump.. t.. it’s thru that people even in the sense of self.. they are less/more conditioned/stuck/suffering.. from not being connected to oneself.. so even though one is the ego self.. this connection to ego self can be various degrees.. that doesn’t mean the person who is not disconnected.. they’re awakened.. they still might now know what they are.. they just be nicer/loving person.. so not as stuck as somebody angry/hateful..
yeah.. that.. healing begs a leap
? not sure what he’s saying on that last bit – like do you have to know you’re awakened to be awake? ie: a child wouldn’t know.. or care about knowing i guess is a better way to say it.. the knowing becomes irrelevant.. in their not yet scrambled ness.. kind of like what gabor was saying at 33 mind in video 1
10 min – h: the sense of immediacy is very important..almost visceral though not physical.. true nature has ecology of presence/fullness/textures.. the awakened person experiences self that way and that is not lost.. there are all kinds of people who have spiritual experiences/access.. they’re not awakened until the spiritual access is continually present and they cannot be lost.. that is awake.. before that we say the person has some spiritual development.. so any spiritual development doesn’t mean awakening.. awakening is the technical word used in spiritual lit.. equated w enlightenment and realization
12 min – alex: on trauam
h: many defn’s of trauma.. i learned about trauma originally from people like peter levine.. who lived next door when he was first developing the theory.. i was working his clients and seeing how he does it with them.. his view is most dominate in the world from what i understand.. which is..
13 min – h: a traumatized person is somebody who had some counter experience that they couldn’t handle.. beyond their capacity.. it is difficult, painful, scary, whatever.. and as a result.. most people survival instinct kicks in.. fight or flea.. trauma happens when you can’t do either.. so the other alt left.. is that you freeze.. and you dissociate because you can’t handle.. so the frozeness in the nervous system and dissociation.. you’re not feeling it ..basically become suppressed/unconscious.. what’s left are the effects of it that happen later in life that create difficulties for the person.. so if there is no frozeness and dissociation.. i won’t call it trauma..
alex: on.. ultimate trauma is the disconnection from our true nature
15 min – h: that is an interesting perspective.. if you take that position.. then the human race as a whole is traumatized.. everybody.. now most trauma therapists won’t take that position.. that the human race as a whole is traumatized.. there are some who have trauma and some that don’t..
but we all are indeed.. none of us are free if one of us
h: so .. i usually wouldn’t think of disconnection w your nature as trauma.. i would think of it as biggest problem human being has.. you see.. trauma is a very specific kind of a problem.. this is a problem.. that is different order than trauma or no trauma.. self thru history might/might-not have trauma.. but there is always a self.. the development of the ego self.. the loss of connection with our true nature/being.. and that of course becomes the source of much suffering
16 min – h: most suffering in the world is because human people are not awakened.. not connected.. because if somebody is truly connected w true nature.. which is the source of compassion/love.. they can’t be selfish.. they have to care for people..
h: you look around the world.. that’s not true.. some people are that way .. many are not.. some of those cruel people are traumatized too which makes them worse.. the ego has various forms/kinds.. you don’t call all neurosis trauma.. but i do want to emphasize that being disconnected from our true nature is the basic issue.. t
let’s go/org/detox that deep
17 min – h: the basic difficulty that any human being is engaged in .. and most people don’t know it.. even people who are not traumatized.. they live their life.. generally ok.. good job.. function find.. those people are still not awakened.. and their depth of happiness/fulfillment is limited
18 min – h: people who come to spiritual work come because they’re suffering sometimes.. sometime they come become of meaningless in life.. something misses.. all their successes.. sometimes there’s a deep longing.. they don’t know what it is .. but they want it..they don’t understand.. some people have it explicitly.. they want a direct union w the divine.. or they’ve had experiences.. and it disappears and they want to go back to that.. so there are many reasons people come to spiritual work..
20 min – h: and in my work.. people who come.. some have trauma.. and there are degress of trauma of course.. we have to remember that.. just because people have trauma.. not all are the same.. i would say.. not everybody is traumatized.. but traumatized people are degrees of them.. just like there are degrees of neurologies.. so people who are deeply trauma who come to the inner work to work w their trauma.. i usually wouldn’t accept them.. i would send them to a trauma therapist.. because that’s what they need.. they don’t need spiritual work.. they need to work thru their trauma.. because they cannot access spiritual nature if they still haven’t dealt with their trauma
wow.. i don’t know.. that seems like it’s not possible for all people.. like you have to train.. like there are pre req’s to get there
so to me.. this doesn’t sound like how i think of almaas holes law
h: and spiritual work doesn’t deal w trauma directly.. in fact spiritual work sometimes can re traumatize people..
21 min – alex: and what can also happen is people don’t realize they have trauma until they start to open things up..
h: yeah.. i find that too.. that some people.. after working for a while.. they discover that they have trauma they didn’t know about.. and there are diff degrees to that (when it happens – the realization of trauma).. depending on the degree of trauma.. i may work with them.. would still send to trauma therapist and have them do both..
22 min – h: some people.. they come to the trauma work and not obvious they are traumatized.. and after a while they can’t move.. and find out had a big trauma they didn’t know about.. and those people then.. in fact there are many of them.. those people will need to do specific trauma therapy.. you can’t really do spiritual work effectively if you are under the impact of strong trauma
that just sounds so unsettling.. like adding another hoop to jump thru..
but maybe that’s what i’m missing? j et al..? i don’t know.. maybe that’s similar to the imagine a turtle ness.. ?
23 min – alex: going to change language slightly here.. a very broad defn of trauma: suffering.. one thing i think particularly important about your work.. and transformational for me.. was this idea that suffering has the potential to be the gateway and not the block to awakening.. people see it as something to bypass/transcend.. to get away from.. and in your work.. that suffering has the potential to be the gateway
24 min – h: it is true.. there are many teaching who try to transcend the suffering.. that is undigested material in psyched that usually comes back to bite them.. but in the work i do .. i work w the person’s experience.. i don’t use technique to go to a spiritual place.. i work w the person brings up to me in terms of what is their experience in the present life.. and i work with it.. and a lot of it has suffering..
25 min – h: usually most people when they come to work with me.. don’t say.. oh i’m happy today let’s work w that.. they say i’m feeling abandoned/depressed/anxious/worthless/empty.. so it is a suffering.. so that is what i work with.. and that has reason as to why they are that way.. people are not created that way.. it has a history behind it..
26 min – h: so working with them and finding out the sources.. understanding the sources and making them conscious.. then they can dissolve and become less of a barrier to spiritual experience.. and in fact become a stepping stone to some spiritual aspects of oneself..
alex: yes and i think it’s important to make the point that it’s not just that suffering can be a gateway in an intellectual way .. like lessons.. but in a very visceral sense.. and opening to and feeling and going thru the hole of that suffering is a portal
27 min – h: true.. but you see.. any experience in the moment can be a portal.. and suffering is usually a specific portal because that is what they are focused on .. that’s what they are presenting.. so you work w that.. as you understand it and it opens up .. you realize that suffering and the conditioning/history/mental construct behind it.. begin to dissolve.. and as they get dissolved.. they reveal our true nature in one way or another
28 min – h: (on what true nature could be).. ie: you could fee sense of being not loved.. the common .. can create difficulties until they deal w why they feel not lovable.. and dealing with not feeling lovable.. that which is very painful.. and the history behind it.. brings in deep wounding.. and as we work with the wounding it exposes a certain kind of gap/emptiness.. and as the emptiness is allowed.. is the absence of love.. that’s what that emptiness is.. that’s what they feel is no love.. you actually feel directly.. there is no love here..
29 min – h: if you feel that then that becomes an opening for something to arise that feels like a palpable soft delicate substance that is feeling the consciousness.. filling the body.. tastes sweet and makes you feel yummy and make you feel i love.. and you feel what love is.. either feel i’m able to love.. the question of love disappears.. or you fell you are love.. that is very the phenom of it is very distinct.. so love is usually a beautiful softness/generosity/appreciativeness.. with almost feels like being full of pink cotton candy..
29 min – h: which is diff from feeling the absence of strength.. which you feel weak/carcerated.. and when you work with that .. you get to another something else arise in you.. you feel like a strong fire.. like red lava coursing thru your veins.. and you feel strong, fiery, alive, robust.. w a full/alive ness.. and the fullness feels warm.. but it is fluid at the same time.. like a warm fluid.. a heat that doesn’t burn.. but makes you feel strong/courageous
31 min – h: or you could feel sometimes sense of clarity.. presence of clarity.. precise.. delicate.. like liquid crystal..
alex: also important to say.. initially .. going into these holes of deficiency.. is i don’t know what else to do .. then shifted to a .. trying to get out of pain and desperation to a genuine curiosity and love of truth whatever that may be..
32 min – h: that means you have matured.. to know .. that trying to get the love or strength from somewhere else.. ie: sports, love, looks, rich,.. so people love you.. when you realize these things don’t work.. that means you have already come halfway into the spiritual development.. and then you realize you can’t go there.. you have to go inward.. and even when going inward you can’t exploit/push yourself.. you can’t make it happen.. you can just explore and be open.. and then it happens as a blessing.. it appears as a grace
33 min – alex: what’s the potential of someone really turning toward that pain/suffering
34 min – h: if you really got neglected.. face it.. grapple with it.. from a spiritual perspective.. w presence/clarity/openness.. and love to know the truth of it.. loving to know the truth is the heart of spiritual orientation.. and then you find the truth of it and it dissipates because you recognize the truth of it.. before .. it’s there because we haven’t completely felt/face/understood it.. what’s it about.. so that full experience.. the full facing of it.. and the complete understanding of it.. it loses what we call its emotional charge.. its abstracting capacity.. which makes the emergence of spiritual presence/light much more likely
35 min – alex: love to hear your inspirations around the program.. what draws you to want to participate
h: my interest has to do w the fact that there’s lots of trauma in the culture.. trauma is more widespread than people thought in the beginning when they first discovered the trauma.. there are more people traumatized than we thought.. esp 20th cent and now.. where we have more developed and less cruelty.. you would think people are in better shape.. but in fact still a lot of trauma.. the trauma basically is in the way of spiritual development/opening/learning.. so i think it’s important for people to know about their trauma and to work with their trauma.. so that it can be a spiritual development.. because it can be one of the biggest impediment to spiritual realization.. trauma that hasn’t been acknowledged or worked out
37 min – alex: seems people coming from both spiritual/trauma backgrounds.. but missing the other.. ie: feeling they’re missing something after working on spiritual.. and seeking more after working on trauma
h: yeah.. i think if somebody really work deeply thru trauma .. they might encounter that.. might open up and show them that they don’t know who they are.. might bring them to spiritual work.. not always.. some people become normal self.. can live life ok.. after trauma work.. but not necessarily interested in spiritual work..
38 min – h: my interest is more.. now trauma needs to be recognized.. worked with a specialized person to have some freedom to be able to do the spiritual work.. and then the spiritual work will bring a deeper healing to the trauma..
39 min – h: one thing i noticed about people who work w trauma.. and why they never get over it.. they still always see self as traumatized.. they have a trauma id.. because they have to have a self.. and their history has trauma.. so.. id w trauma continues and that leaves something unresolved.. and that’s where spiritual work is very useful.. because spiritual work helps you be free of any sense of self..
40 min – alex: it’s almost like trauma work can get people to the point of neutral.. but not enough to who they are which is so much more
h: i know a lot of people who are doing trauma therapy.. many w ptsd.. soldiers et al.. most of them don’t go to spiritual work.. they just work w trauma and get better so they can be ok w their family instead of being trouble for their family.. but i imagine some of them do turn to spiritual work and then they can get a deeper healing.. not just healing.. a possibility of true happiness and fulfillment.. because spiritual work is not just healing.. spiritual work is you get healed.. but also have something positive happening.. a fullness/richness in life.. and i kind of freedom/fulfillment/expansion which is more than people think is possible..
41 min – h: i think he has his specialty and i have my spiritual work.. and i think there needs to be a dialogue between the two.. it will be interesting to see..
alex: in video 3 i’ll talk about the online program.. over 2 weekends much deeper into these topics.. opp for you to ask questions
video 1: gabor on role of spiritual
video 2: hameed on role of trauma