charles on illness
Sharing a couple recent interviews here. First: https://t.co/tZn8jDCoOp
Original Tweet: https://twitter.com/ceisenstein/status/1490720039225692160
[second was charles on healing and awakening]
16 min – c: self image of the med field.. we can cure.. so if you have a disease that doesn’t fit.. tend not to see it.. it’s a lot easier to say ‘you’re crazy’..t this cannot be happening.. eventually people wake up to trusting own body.. how many times can you be told it’s all in your head
crazywise (doc) et al
when body says no et al
20 min – b: issue of body is issue of soul.. when i originally wanted to talk to you.. in sacred econ you talked about chinese med’s chi: how life force is in your adrenals.. and i read it and thought.. i have adrenal fatigue.. and you talk about how if you’re not doing your life purpose in the world.. your adrenals can be drained in same way.. we have to force ourselves to get up everyday and do work we don’t want to do
b: (have to force selves) by any means necessary.. like coffee.. like anything that’s pumping our bodies w some external stimulant that will actually get us motivated enough to to do work we don’t really want to do..t and that those things are equally as tied to the way we are damaging the planet.. so mirrors of each other.. extracting resources from both..
21 min – b: on first thing to ingest in am
like itch-in-the-soul first thing of day
22 min – l: i used to joke that i was just collecting diagnosis of exclusion.. when receive no clear answers.. think.. maybe i am crazy.. not finding the silver bullet.. feels like something very deep/spiritual.. like.. i have to figure out my purpose to heal.. ie: dr saying.. i fixed physical.. but if you continue to be a spiritual match to this disease.. it will keep showing up in other ways.. (disease is) so much deeper..t
maté addiction law et al..
25 min – c: on collecting things that aren’t even in fitting for completeness of life.. if really in flow in service to your purpose.. it opens your channel.. ie: comes not from but thru the kidneys.. only in alignment.. you won’t get depleted.. on initiatory element of disease.. can’t live same way you have lived before.. also can’t contain disease in a tidy categorical understanding .. disease will only leave when it has transformed you in some way (at beginning talking about global disease as message).. it’s like a friend.. i’m grateful for this signal..
28 min – c: when trying to control that which cannot be controlled.. realizing it’s your friend/ally.. some diseases aren’t meant to be cured.. the first impulse is to try everything you already know.. but that is a little too safe/contained.. no change.. what it wants you to do is step into a territory you haven’t been before.. could be west/east med practices.. the healing/therapy is basically a ritual you undergo to change.. a release of control/knowing.. it’s scary and not safe.. it’s stepping into a new territory
31 min – b: my body has no idea how to not do.. my sickness might be control.. even the idea of purpose is a kind of future casting.. everything we’re talking about is the story of separation.. ie: future casting.. living in a separate/future me.. rather than living in now me.. turned into ways i control.. purpose even for me can be a story of separation.. removes me from self/now.. the way we use time in a story of separation
begin being ness
34 min – c: yeah.. the concept (purpose) has limited utility.. can be yet another thing you’re supposed to do right.. i think the category we’ve assigned to purpose is too narrow.. ie: my new puppy can’t contain energies.. we wouldn’t say she’s found her purpose.. unless.. to exuberantly enjoy life.. it is in human nature to bind time.. and to create thru our knowledge of time to make step by step plans.. there are things we can only get in that way
? i don’t know
36 min – c: on tedious steps to something beautiful.. easier if you see the final purpose
yeah.. i don’t know.. i think that’s whalespeak.. i think we have no idea.. what legit free people are like
37 min – c: it’s really about yes/no.. when you fight yourself you’ll become tired.. we could code the yes as purpose.. but sometimes you become tired.. eventually the no comes.. time to rest.. this is daoism.. non doing.. non contrivance.. non artificial doing.. is the key to vitality.. not fighting nature/self.. my healing process has been to recover sovereignty.. to even discern my yes/no.. because i had surreneder it to.. am i good/worthy/loved.. will i get in trouble.. that habit of listening to that.. made me never even know whate my true yes was
maté trump law et al
40 min – c: i think a lot of people in our society have habits of overriding our yes/no.. recovering that can be hugely healing..t
huge.. we need a means to undo our hierarchical listening
41 min – l: i almost feel like if i listened to the most obvious yes there would be so many things i didn’t do that i’d collapse in on myself.. i think anxiety itself is trying to get you to collapse in on your self
c: this idea of abdicating sovereignty to something external.. this.. my body will tell me.. may be a way not to be in choice.. in a way it’s the body saying.. are you sure (rather than no).. it’s an opp to ride your desire.. to really follow your yes.. and often enormous energy is there on pushing thru
45 min – b: on disease maybe saying.. maybe you aren’t experiencing joy
l: illness forces you to dig so deep.. forces you to find deeper/deeper reservoirs
47 min – b: on attachment theory.. how do i tell when yes is yes and no is no.. danger vs excitement et al.. on feeling like my compass was mis as-cued..
yeah that.. the not.. not yet scrambled ness..
50 min – l: seems there could be a lot of things obscure it..
c: gosh could i even claim to make these decisions.. (but) one thing penetrated to me ‘you can do whatever you want’.. powerful mantra..t so many ways to understand it.. one way: there is no tally sheet at end of life.. not going to get in trouble..
b: i don’t know what religion you grew up in
c: yeah.. it brings up the question.. what do i really want.. don’t have to have a formula.. the question itself opens up a process.. what do i really want.. i can do whatever i want.. i’m not going to get in trouble.. i am loved already for who i am.. w/o having to qualify.. because so much of the suppression of yes/no comes from attachment theory.. seeking out love.. having to learn approval.. when parental love is conditional.. child perceives that as i’m not loved.. i’m not lovable.. all seen as very elab control system.. so the fear is that if i reclaim my yes and do whatever i want.. that will be bad.. because i’m bad.. et al.. it’s in christianity it’s in science.. even though true teaching of christianity is the precise opposite.. you are already loved.. taking that in is so liberating.. i know i’m not going to get in trouble.. trouble w/whom?..
on each heart ness..
and brown belonging law et al..
can we trust that?
ie: imagine if we just focused on listening to the itch-in-8b-souls.. first thing.. everyday.. and used that data to augment our interconnectedness.. we might just get to a more antifragile, healthy, thriving world.. the ecosystem we keep longing for..
54 min – c: no bid daddy keeping track..see where it goes when you follow whatever i want.. that’s who i am when i accept whatever i want..
huge.. sans any form of m\a\p
exactly our experimentation.. and our findings
we really can do whatever we want.. ness..
57 min – c: not that i don’t want to do/be that (whatever i want) it’s that i’m not listening to that..t this idea.. i can do whatever i want.. is an amazing seed for meditation
need: non hierarchical listening to self/others/nature
58 min – l: on being in trouble w who? if in deep community.. a lot of trouble.. people mad at you et al..
c: you learn .. and part of what you want comes thru observation of consequences.. maybe i’d like to shout at people .. but it hurts.. so how do i help that.. ie: maybe if i shield myself from what they’re feeling.. as we get closer to what actually feels good.. maybe i learn that some of the things i’ve been doing that i thought felt good.. didn’t actually feel good.. so we change.. not because better able to control selves.. everyone is familiar w the addiction pattern.. t
1:01 – c: ie: i gave up and said.. i’m going to eat whatever i want.. but then have sick feeling after.. so this is one area of my life i have mastered this principle.. our society has so many ways to distract ourselves from consequences and deaden our sensitivity so that it’s easier to harm others.. because we’re not feeling it.. this is all about bringing attention back to what you feel
yeah that.. that deep .. non hierarchical listening
1:02 – b: it’s so much easier to be a victim.. ie: i can’t because i don’t have enough time/money.. we tend to think about health as an individual struggle/burden and not pay attention to circumstances that create disease.. i’ve grown to.. i can’t blame others.. my responsibility to value my own time.. but at same time.. we live world that creates a need for a ’round up’ .. a world that is constantly making us sick.. and i have to pay for the meds/research/time/energy/dental.. i have to use my house to pay for saving my life in a world that has made me sick.. it is personally infuriating to me that i bear the burden of using my house as an asset to leverage against my own health
1:06 – b: what if society covered the cost of all that.. (fixing all the ailments of a wick world).. that it would serve life.. all of us.. for the care to met collectively.. that like black mold.. bad water.. et al.. was a problem to be covered.. how infuriating that is to me.. because we aren’t there yet.. i have to leverage my own assets in order to save my life.. so in one hand.. experiencing this extreme amount of self sovereignty.. taking responsibility.. yet also recognizing the way society makes me sick..
1:08 – l: but you’re in the minority of people that clearly sees these problems..
1:09 – c: we are clearly loved.. but not entitled to have it easy.. ie: how many tadpoles grow up to be a frog.. yet they have no self pity.. all of us.. we ar elife and these obstacle.. we can handle them.. because we are life.. thru the obstacles we can learn how strong we are.. you’re not entitled to have a world w/o black mold.. et al.. the anger is what empowers you to do something about it.. the .. it’s not fair i deserve other.. is disempowering.. we don’t deserve anything.. i’m talking about victim ness that comes from perception of helplessness.. it’s like the refuge of ‘i can’t’ when i’m afraid to say yes.. if i really wanted it.. if my full heart were in it.. i would find a way.. could say world is giving us opp to take the power
1:13 – l: friend asking .. ‘how is this sickness helping you’.. i said ‘easier than what i’m meant to do’
1: 14 – c: yeah.. get sympathy.. as a kid.. total/unconditional love from parents was when i was sick
1: 15 – b: (struggling with what is saying i’m entitled.. like struggling for justice.. is that entitlement).. tired of being the only one to take care of things.. often i’ve thought about that as sadness of not having a romantic partner.. bad expectation to place on partner in the first place.. but i think.. wish i was dating to have someone to help carry this load.. i’ve never done what i wanted to do.. so constant.. wanting someone else to come take care of it/things.. i’d never thought that maybe the only ways i felt taken care when i was young of is when i was sick
1:17 – c: also just (justifying) going on vacation.. feel i need to say .. because i’m sick.. so i have to.. this shrinking form sovereignty.. i’m sick and tired of it .. for me
1:20 – l: on how being sick i’ve learned so much.. ie: root canals .. removal of wisdom teeth.. realizing not good for you.. good to talk to others who are going thru real/scary things..
1:21 – b: why i read books.. because if i’m not around people who carry that story.. i operate by seeing how crazy world is.. remembering i’m not the crazy one.. i’m also curious to know if i just want to do things to see what happens.. ie: if i sell my security net of a house; to move; to ..
1: 22 – c: brave and good to follow curiosity.. that’s called being alive.. playing it safe until when? until life is over? that’s not called being reckless..t.. reckless is overriding the no
1:24 – c: sanity is a group project
yeah.. ie: hari rat park law
there’s a nother way.. if we org around legit needs
b: i would love to talk to you more sometime in the future about religion.. actual meaning of word sin.. was separation.. not some tally of good/bad.. it was a recognition of something that might be creating a rupture for you.. a separation from truth.. the real truth in inter being and not separation