zach & charles on life is a community
via charles fb share
A new podcast I recorded with Dr. Zach Bush, MD. He was an endocrinologist who went rogue (left establishment medicine to open holistic clinics, study the microbiome, and get involved in soil science.) Enjoy. https://charleseisenstein.org/…/dr-zach-bush-life-is-a-com…/
80 min podcast –
8 min – z: i broke that woman’s spirit.. by getting her to not trust her own intuition
9 min – z: 2010 – free fall in medicine (pharma).. at same time of my philosophical/psychological free fall – wanted to find pathway to reverse chronic disease
10 min – c: on addiction/finances hijacking us
11 min – z: fail to realize complexity.. before the (narrow) physiology you’re studying .. now asking.. how does physiology happen at its best.. how do you support healing to happen.. ‘healing’ didn’t sound scientific to colleagues.. we’ve never worked that word into our education.. we’re blinded to the reality that bodies heal
roots of healing et al
15 min – z: if we weren’t healing at an extraordinary rate.. we wouldn’t be here
c: heal and whole from same root.. process of coming back into wholeness.. requires that you believe there is a wholeness.. the more we live amidst machines.. the more we expect people to be like machines.. ie: dr fixing patient.. but recognizing life knows how to heal.. recasts meds into .. how do we support that process
17 min – c: our selves are set of relationships.. not just nuclear dna.. but a host of other beings.. ie: 10x more bacterial cells than human cells in bodies.. this helps.. to what it means to be whole.. is it possible to be whole if not in relationship w other humans/life
18 min – c: i’d like to get into topic of viruses.. and genetic change of info
z: i’m so in love w this concept of wholeness being the structure function of healing.. so important to mull over.. where have we made mistakes in our lives to thinking we are machine like..
19 min – z: where am i being machine like.. important thinking
20 min – z: we’ve been believing .. genetic info from mom and dad predicts who we are.. born.. and then deteriorate from there on.. in fact.. not at all that.. last 20 yrs has revealed whole new world of plasticity.. in world we thought to be concrete.. in the genome.. in the brain.. thought slowing losing/deteriorating.. but really adapting/healing
21 min – z: endocrine systems adapts to environ.. in same way genomics and at much deeper level.. are extraordinarily plastic.. performed at global level thru viruses..
22 min – z: viruses i believe.. have been mis categorized by med and by general public/media.. as part of the micro biome.. living germs attack us.. et al.. micro biome is small living orgs.. so virus being a non living org.. a non living sheath of info.. already doesn’t fit into this.. if go to wikipedia and look up virus.. says it’s part of micro biome because it’s so small.. that’s not a rational categorization.. just because it fits the first word (micro) so well.. going to put it into this category
23 min – z: danger in this mis categorization is that we assume it has features similar to bacteria and fungi.. all these micro orgs in micro biome.. and in fact.. it’s impossible that it has any of the similar traits .. because in fact it’s an info stream coming out of biology as a whole.. targeted specifically at other parts of the biology to update the genetics.. and what we see in the bio rome.. which is a description of this global genetic info that’s coursing out of biology.. the bio rome.. is the machinery of adaptation.. and it’s the language of adaptation w/in life.. and w/o the bio rome.. we would have never had the first bacteria.. the first human cell.. we’ve been built literally by the compilation and insurgence of genetic info.. by these viruses into life forms around the planet for millions of years.. first viruses found in fossil records.. some 3.5 million years ago..
24 min – z: so that’s fascinating.. that this genetic info is really the building block by which we now have life.. and yet we’ve demonized it.. and in demonizing building blocks of life and perhaps more to the point.. by demonizing the creative/adaptive force of biology.. what have we done?.. what have we so missed?.. and where are we going as a species if we remain in this demonized behavior/belief system towards this fundamental building block of life.. and i think this pandemic is really shown what happens
25 min – c: demonization as natural when see world thru competitive lens.. ie: pathogens out there that don’t care about you.. some harmless.. but some parasites/predators.. and you have to protect self from them.. because basically life is a vast war of each against all.. that’s how the study of bio has conceived it for a very long time.. and that way of seeing it .. reckons with the econ circumstances we live in.. where we have a money system that sets us up in a war each against all.. religion/psychology.. also been conditioned by this view.. which also goes back 1000s of yrs to.. domestication and tech that made world into an object.. and that conceived progress as a matter of greater/greater dominance over these competitors/forces-of-nature.. so progress became harnessing them or insulating ourselves form them.. or extricating/destroying them.. and so in that basic psychic field.. the germ theory of disease is quite natural to think that.. and it causes us to resist other ways of seeing it like a bio terrain theory which says.. ok (i heard you saying this on *del bigtree’s podcast.. and i kind of wanted everybody to watch that first)
28 min – c: if you accept this pre disposition to see the world as enemies.. then probably going to accept the response.. our public/govt response to covid.. when see life as community/relationship and viruses as one of ways that these relationships are maintained.. that genetic info is shared.. then we ask new questions.. like.. what communication is trying to happen here (covid)
29 min – z: archaea (advanced/ancient/original form of bacteria).. had a horizontal gene transfer.. any could pass info to any others.. still happens in hospitals w antibios.. hits bacteria in body.. but enough that in body that have a genomic alternate pathways that they’re not going to buy into antibiotic.. so they get narrowed down to drug resistance population.. they can then pass that horizontally to all other bacteria in the environ .. so that next time see that drug.. it’s a lot less likely going to see the knock down of population
30 min – c: want to make clear here.. zach is not saying that they are passing antibiotic resistance to the next generation .. they are actually passing it to their friends.. to the bacteria meet up.. some open up channels and it’s like they’re having sex
31 min – z: yeah.. we’ve so long considered genetic swapping as a sexual event.. and that’s one of things that’s limiting our world view right now around genomics.. we need to start to realize that the sexual transmission of info goes way beyond genetics of the cell.. we’re now realizing in cloning experiments for ie.. that you can’t actually clone an animal unless you also clone the mitochondria inside of those animals.. inside of the cell you’re trying to clone.. and the mitochondria are these little bacteria guys.. a mitochondria is an ancient archaea that’s then absorbed by a methane producing bacteria.. this happened billions of years ago and became a very important part of the infra of multi cellular life.. that these orgs could live inside of meucariotic (?) cells and produce energy thru this fermentation/fossilization.. oxygen rich energy production.. w/in that archaea is this little strip of dna/genomics.. and it has extraordinary variability..
32 min – z: ie: such that if look in singular cell.. somewhere between 200 and 200 000 mitochondria living in them.. and if you look across at that mitochondria population w/in a single cell.. there’s massive variation.. and so we’re realizing that this variation is constantly swapping info w the nuclear dna (received by mom/dad human).. and that nuclear dna is being changed/transformed by mitochondrial variations that are responding to its environ second to second.. so .. we’re starting to realize that even the phenotype of a single cell .. and therefore our whole human body.. is not determined by mom/dad’s dna very well.. that’s a rough template.. and it’s the environmental influence on the mitochondria which are the micro biome.. and then as soon as the child is born.. the vast amount of genomic info that is available in the bacteria/fungi of the gut/skin.. and now we realized there’s bacteria/fungi in every organ system in a healthy state.. so the brain/liver/kidney all have bacteria and fungi..
33 min – z: so.. w/o all this genomic input.. we don’t actually look like who we are today.. and so we’re super plastic in that way.. and so in the same way that these archaea were horizontally transferring info to their buddies.. so they could immediately adopt this antibiotic resistance.. same thing happens in weeds in a field.. spray w herbi/pesti cides.. always couple weeds that will have a genetic resistance to that and they can horizontally gene transfer.. so that even in the same field/season w/o reproduction happening.. you’ll see increased resistance happen across the strain (?)
34 min – z: the word virus needs to be loosely held there.. if we consider word virus very loosely to mean change of genetic info thru space/time.. then yes.. all done virally..
35 min – z: 5-10 yrs ago i would have said a virus has all these very intentional surface proteins that target it to a specific tissue in the recipient.. it’s important for us to remember that every corona virus ever in history that infected human beings was made by human beings.. we make these things.. and we make them intelligently designed to hit the recipient at a very specific receptor.. so we’ll cover the viral pkg of info w a smart bond (?) kind of approach.. ie: we’re going to move this thing to right location.. and the word bond (?) is erroneous.. should use the word delivery system.. and that is an intelligent update..
36 min – z: in same way.. when i put out viruses.. i’m going to target it specifically to.. in case of corona virus.. ht (?) receptors inside the lung/vascular system inside the recipient because trying to update my own genomics to handle new toxins in my environ.. things likes cyanide or air pollution or herbi/pesticides.. i’m adapting to this toxic environ that i’m breathing everyday.. and i need a genetic update to make a more resilient lung surface or vascular tree behind that lung.. to adapt to this new toxic environ as we start to approach these vast extinctions we’re at.. so the biology is always updating
37 min – z: most scientists think.. instead of updating.. it’s letting them know what’s going to happen so can prep for stress..
38 min – z: i’m putting out this cloud of info (thru breath/sweat) to tell you in my proximity.. what my last 24 hrs has looked like..
39 min – z: and it’s not surprising that we start to see patterns of diseases in families that make it look like it’s genetic.. type 2 diabetes et al.. and yet risk factors in type 2 diabetes are far more environmental than genomic.. so this is how we get familial traits/patterns of disease.. when in fact their not genetic.. they’re environmental.. thru our environmental exposure… we express a micro rna exosomal (?) experience and then everybody adapts to our stress.. around us.. in similar fashion
z: so that’s overall terrain.. viruses are really intended to be large rna/dna strands that will get integrated into specific tissues to do new info adaptation in real time.. whereas the micro rna are more of a short term modification of behavior that partners genome but not necessarily in searching/surging into their genome
41 min – z: (c: what’s actually going on) yeah.. i’m going to say some things here that is actually current science.. so in 5 yrs this is probably not going to hold up.. but.. because this is such new science.. i already want to tell you that this is a grey zone.. that we’re going to find out exosomes actually can target specific protein binding and all that.. (then talks about hunches of way they combine)
44 min – z: so can modify behavior of genes w/o inserting itself into gene
z: we should have a lose hand on all this religious orthodoxy that we’re so into of categorization in science.. we love to believe that a fungi is a fungi of this specific species.. we’re having this humbling experience of how plastic (blurry) everything is
45 min – z: as we start to understand quantum physics.. electrical energy.. of bio.. it’s going to messy
46 min – c: i wanted to ask you about contagion.. there’s a lot of software upgrades that need to happen in humans.. so our susceptibility is heightened… we need these upgrades.. and sometimes upgrades are too massive for body to handle.. so.. maybe symptoms of virus are the process for it.. and maybe weaker/older people can’t handle that process.. ie: take kids to chicken pox party because believe kids need an upgrade.. have disease and get better..
49 min – c: i go back to discovery of virus.. that was due to contagion.. and then trying to id contagion agent..
50 min – z: the transfer of genetic info is constant.. at such a rate that boggles the mind.. 10^31 viruses in air et al.. so vast.. can’t take a breath .. w/o constant interaction w these viruses and the genomic info w/in them.. and it’s important.. you need this constant update..
51 min – z: so this is where we run into a problem of categorizing viruses in same catchall title of the micro biome.. because bacteria/fungi produce energy .. which means they need a food source.. which means if you have an unbalanced ecosystem.. those bacteria/fungi can out strip the competition for those resources of food.. so that’s what it looks like when you get cellulitous or die of pneumonia in the hospital.. which is what .. everybody who dies from covid complications are dying from downstream events w/in the vasculature.. bacterial pneumonia.. they have nothing to do with the trigger.. that might have been a viral update
first safety.. is healthy alive people.. trusting ourselves to heal ourselves.. rather than continually blocking the natural processes of healing/living et al
52 min – z: and so the phenom that we see in hospitals around bacteria/fungi is.. living organisms competing for an ever more scarce resource.. the more you try to sterilize the environ.. the more abnormal the ecosystem gets and the more aggressive everybody needs to get for those resources.. so that’s where we see overwhelming infection and pathogenesis happen..
z: in a field of organic soils and wild flowers.. and massive biodiversity of a jungle .. you don’t see viruses affecting the plants.. it’s only when we start to mono crop anything..
z: and that’s why it really wasn’t discovered until tobacco.. until we started mono cropping potatoes.. in great irish famine.. corn, soybean.. et al.. we never saw viruses behave at all pathogenic (can cause disease)
agri surplus et al – so too w big pharma
53 min – z: so i would argue that it was very much a change in terrain that led to the emergence of the discovery of the tobacco mosaic (?) virus.. and to say that they were unhealthy plants.. it’s not like they were stressed.. this was a healthy field of tobacco.. it’s because we keep trying to define health w/in a single organism.. that we’re failing there..t
z: and in the same way we fail to id what a healthy immune system is.. health actually has nothing to do w/the individual organism.. health is entirely dictated by and entirely necessitated thru and entirely created by ..biodiversity..t
hari rat park law et al
ie: cure ios city
54 min – z: and as soon as you lack biodiversity .. you become vulnerable.. because the genetic updates that are happening to the virum (plural of virus?) for ie.. are unbalanced in their messaging.. you don’t have 10^31 viruses in that pocket of air.. because you’ve sprayed herbi/pesticide or created a monoculture environ where you’ve over plowed soils .. destroyed micro biomes.. so not producing same .. viral info in environ.. so a single virus that uploads into that environ can overwhelm the genetic matrix/update process that’s going on.. and it can take on behavior of pathogenic process when there was no pathology intended.. the virus causing that had no intention harming tobacco.. was simply giving an update
whales in sea world ness – we have no idea what we’d be like if we quit trying to manage ourselves..
so fractal to deepest problem
55 min – z: we suffer a very severe version of this topic when we look at a child today.. we think we have to protect the child from all the bacteria/viruses.. so we want that child be intro’d to max possible as early as possible (like chicken pox parties) to make it the most resilient possible.. we’ve taken the opposite approach.. we’ve put mom on antibiotics while child in birth canal .. because mom had strep b or something like that.. so now we’re depleting the entire ecosystem as the child comes into the birth canal.. or even worse..we don’t allow mom to move into a normal system of labor.. or we induce early.. or compromise natural processes of labor.. and do a c section.. which is completely sterile delivery of child.. no contact w mom’s vaginal flora.. that will no longer coculate (?) that child.. instead that child gets pulled out and put on hospital gurney .. immediately adopting the 3-5 strains of bacteria that are common to the strip down version of micro biome in the hospital
safety addiction et al.. killing us.. making us not us
56 min – z: so it’s in this mono culture behavior of tobacco, wheat, soybean, children.. that we have extracted biology from its biodiverse pathogens for balance and we create the appearance of pathogenesis
z: so i would argue that chicken pox is a very important update to the organism.. and the fact that it manifests like it does.. it integrates into dermis and various areas of the immune system.. the respiratory tree and the skin .. 99% of what we call the immune system these days.. and so that virus is updating all that info thru out and if that child goes on beyond the chicken pox.. we see that child is more resilient against the confusion of auto immune disease.. and has reduction in cancer risk.. whereas if that child never gets exposed to those genomic updates that challenge the immune system to get to a higher level of intelligence surveillance.. we see higher rates of chronic diseases emerging for decades after
57 min – z: (interesting graphs that keep getting taken down) showing rates of auto immune disease since 1950s.. and what you see is this leap in prevalence of auto immune disease.. every time we intro another vaccine.. meaning.. as we disrupt the experience of this natural genomic update and the appropriate stimulation of the immune system that would follow.. we develop confusion about what’s outside and what’s inside.. auto immune means .. our immune system is now mistaking our own body for a foreign invader
58 min – z: and so our intelligence.. thru our own biologic self id relies on this external info coming in from the virus’s bacteria/fungi
c: yeah.. the real pandemic of our time is auto immunity.. and it doesn’t lend itself to the same.. as conquering evil and finding the bad guy and destroying/controlling something.. it’s the body itself that is rejecting other parts of itself.. which is metaphorically true for the human relationships of the planet.. where we are destroying parts of nature that are actually parts of ourself.. but we don’t realize it
59 min – c: so to sum it up (tell me if accurate or not).. what looks like virally spread disease.. is happening because 2 reasons 1\ we are facing so many stressors.. we need so many updates.. difficult 2\ we have destroyed much of our ability to even receive those updates.. thru the decimation of the micro biome for ie
1:00 – z: that’s right.. deeper than that (and if people want they can go watch that del bigtree for more detail).. not only did we destroy the biodiversity.. we also alter our receptors for these viruses in an abnormal way.. and we also alter the way in which the viruses move thru the atmosphere.. in a couple ways
1\ when virus is produced.. it’s supposed to disperse very evenly thru the air.. thru aerosols.. very small % of viral transfer on surface of planet is done thru respiratory droplets.. which is why of course everyone is wearing masks right now.. and everything else.. they think they’re going to stop this virus from moving around.. in fact it moves most aggressively/functionally.. thru the air combine w dust particles.. or most aggressively it looks like.. thru carbon particulate thru air pollution.. so corona virus responds to that air pollution in an unnatural way.. you get this clumping of the viral genomics.. so now if you breathe in this clump of air pollution.. you might have dozens (really more like millions) of viruses in a very small amount of space rather than dispersed thru out.. when this clumping phenom hits the receptors of your lung.. you pull more of that virus into that very small cellular environ than you would have otherwise.. so we altered the air terrain by which transits to create an artificial hyper intensity to the viral signal
1:01 – z: and 2\ then we up-regulate the receptors thru our pharmacy.. a couple of common drugs that treat cardio vascular disease, diabetes, and kidney disease, are statons and acenhitters (?).. and it turns out those 3 pro morbidities (cario, diabetes, kidney) are exactly what predicted the deaths from covid related experiences.. and so what’s happening with those two drugs.. is they up-regulate the ht receptors.. and so now if you have pharmacologically up-regulated elderly population w (cardio, diabetes, hyper-tension/?adrenal disease).. going to now have propensity to deliver an extreme load of genetic info into these elderly people
1:02 – z: and so the virus may have been benign 150 yrs ago.. when we didn’t have air pollution at this current concentration.. or we didn’t have the pharmaceutilization of these elderly peoples..
but nonetheless.. respiratory death is common.. it’s the 5th leading cause of death in the world.. so it kills millions of people every year.. so as hyperbolic we want to get in our estimates in how many people are dying related to covid.. it’s still far under the amount we would expect year on year for respiratory death to occur..
1:03 – z: and so it’s this malfeasance of info.. this pr/fear campaign.. that was given to this name of a virus that happens annually.. every year.. new viruses will come thru for genetic updates.. and if we change the terrain.. like you said.. we can alter the physiology on the back end of that.. we can develop complications..
z: but again.. we should remember that people aren’t dying from a virus.. the virus is gone w/in 3-5 days of peak production of the virus in the initial symptoms.. and people aren’t dying 3-5 days later.. people are dying weeks later.. from this.. and it’s way downstream as the physiology has broken down in 100 other ways.. and so .. nobody is dying from a virus.. people may have been triggered by a viral exposure .. but it’s the pre existing imbalance w/in that biology that’s leading to the mortal event
1:04 – c: and ironically.. our responses to covid 19 intensify the imbalances.. the more we destroy our micro biome and our immune system in general.. the more we need to protect ourselves.. from these pathogens.. and the way we protect ourselves prevents replenishing of our ecosystems even more and more.. until in future.. everyone has to live in a bubble
z: yeah.. that is the direction we are moving.. ie: china in space suits spraying like pesticides into air to kill the micro biome.. you can’t kill viruses in the same way you can kill bacteria/fungi.. you can try to sterilize the air.. but like you said.. you just predispose that same pocket air.. and comes to more abnormal influx of info et al
1:05 – z: like you said.. this warfare mentality.. when instead we need to realize that health is only going to come thru restoration of biodiversity and vitality of life w/in our soil/air/water systems.. and if that was our response.. we’d be doing the right thing
magine if we just focused on listening to the itch in 8b souls.. first thing.. everyday.. and used that data to connect/coord us.. we might just get to a more antifragile, healthy, thriving world.. the ecosystem we keep longing for
z: the silver lining of the pandemic for me was that the population seems to know what to do.. we saw seeds sell out across the country.. gardens .. to overcome fragility of our food system.. the people did the right thing.. i’m very excited that we are going to have to make a local solution to global crisis
already in us .. if we could just undo our hierarchical listening
1:06 – this pandemic will not even slightly change population growth .. it was a ripple and we (govt et al) did exactly the wrong things .. and if we don’t learn from that we’ll accelerate extinction
1:07 – stress produces massive of amount of info.. so get more biodiversity.. we could see most extensive biodiversity pattern.. that’s compelling to me
1:08 – c: i think that will happen if we don’t continue to suppress that process.. a possibility that requires us to embrace that.. to increase complexity.. this particular crisis point involves us..
1:09 – prevalence of childhood chronic diseases/ traumas increased.. are we wondering why? 1/2 kids allergic to something.. if we take it for granted we adapt to it.. we begin to cope to lower levels of health
1:11 – c: a lot of people have been in a kind of lockdown for decades.. and not had access to alt info.. can’t blame people.. a lot of people don’t even know.. and i don’t see a guarantee that this couldn’t happen forever.. this is a dimension of the choice that faces us right now.. life or suppression of life
1:12 – z: we are the frog in boiling water.. we don’t realize how hot it’s gotten ..
1:13 – z: my alarm is that the manifest is in wealthiest populations.. ie: there children on anti depressants.. now meetings of how to start anti depressants under the age of two.. so supported by high socio economic classes.. they are showing least creativity
1:15 – z: we have a philosophical crisis that’s creating a medical crisis..
1:16 – c: i think any radicalism.. we id.. this is wrong.. can’t be this way.. but that this is embedded in all other systems.. so won’t change unless everything else changes..
1:17 – z: i think it’s thru relationship that we will do this.. these long form discussions are hopeful to me.. we are creative/ingenious people when we’re connected
1:18 – z: my passion is around that.. so for ie we’re trying to extrapolate the truth that biology and life on earth is only manifest thru communication of biodiversity.. society’s.. we need to rethink our energy sectors and our info tech spaces with that in mind.. t
z: and so one of my co’s working on re invention of internet.. to envision.. how would bacteria/fungi create an internet.. and in fact they have.. so we’ve studied that in the soil systems.. and now trying to replicate that at the societal scale for humanity.. to start to communicate much differently and with a different value system reflected in that society so that all of the internet activity actually is empowered by a currency that is fundamentally attached to the necessary resources and regenerative resources w/in natural habitat
1:19 – z: i think if we redesign these things that way.. we’re going to see a diff world quickly emerge.. because humans once connected.. and once given free access to info.. tend to do the right thing.. tend to move in the right direction
1:20 – z: breathe your biome.. breathe all over to get diverse biome.. human to human contact.. increased health
- bush communication law
- bush demonization law
- bush heal law
- bush health law
- bush herbi/pesticide law
- bush immune system law
- bush mono crop law