vitalik on zulalu

NN Ep:11 Let a Thousand Societies Bloom with Vitalik Buterin – jan 9 2026 – 78 min video linked in tweet

via michel bauwens retweet [https://x.com/BlockchainGov/status/2010326404387270989?s=20]:

How to let a thousand societies bloom? In Ep: 11 of the Network Nations podcast Vitalik Buterin joins Primavera De Filippi & Felix Beer for a deep, reflective autopsy of the Zuzalu experiment. They go into the fundamental tensions defining the next wave of human organization: culture vs. mission, permanence vs. mobility and kinship vs. telos. This is a foundational conversation on how digitally aligned communities can leverage governance to evolve into lasting political actors – without sacrificing the soul.

Listen here: [https://youtube.com/watch?v=FD6Dm9aDkkM] @yaoeo, @VitalikButerin, @felix_beer, @networknations_

vitalik buterin.. vitalek on 1000 societies bloom ness.. michel on vitalik’s 1000 ness.. primavera de filippi..

notes/quotes from vitalik’s 1 min video clip embedded in tweet:

v: the right way to approach this is going to be more.. i have this community and this particular community has particular needs and let’s figure out a nation as a way of addressing those needs.. t

first need global detox.. so grok legit needs.. ie: need means (nonjudgmental expo labeling) to undo hierarchical listening as global detox so we can org around legit needs

primavera: and connecting .. connecting the existing communities

v: yeah.. connecting/empowering existing communities to do things that they collectively care about.. like i would basically start with the question .. what are your community’s needs in terms of both being connected to each other and things that community wants to do or see in the world..t and then from there the step 1&2 of low hanging fruit should come out..

need deeper.. ie: imagine if we listened to the itch-in-8b-souls 1st thing everyday & used that data to connect us (tech as it could be.. ai as augmenting interconnectedness as nonjudgmental expo labeling)

p: do you have w/in your own network .. ideas of potential pilot communities that are kind of like navigating around in this space of proto network nationhood and that could somehow benefit from this framework?

there’s a legit use of tech (nonjudgmental exponential labeling) to facil the seeming chaos of a global detox leap/dance.. that’s the (non) framework ness we need.. for (blank)’s sake..

ie: whatever for a year.. a legit sabbatical ish transition

otherwise we’ll keep perpetuating the same song.. the whac-a-mole-ing ness of sea world.. of not-us ness.. of part\ial ness.. [again].. for (blank)’s sake..

from podcast/youtube page above (green pill ness is kevin owocki‘s):

In this episode of the Network Nations mini-series, Primavera De Filippi & Felix Beer are joined by Vitalik Buterin to reflect on one of the most influential experiments in recent community-building history: Zuzalu.

Vitalik shares the motivations behind Zuzalu, what actually worked (and what didn’t), and why many pop-up cities risk drifting into “long conferences” instead of becoming real communities. Together they explore kinship vs telos, culture vs mission, permanence vs mobility, governance by forking, and how zones, tribes, and regulatory sandboxes might interlock to form durable network nations. A deep, reflective conversation on how digitally aligned communities can evolve into lasting political actors without losing their soul

notes/quotes from 78 min video:

p: one of most interesting experiments in community.. in crypto space.. (2023) zulalu.. 200 people to live together for 2 months.. when bring people together for long enough to actually build culture instead of just exchange ideas.. we’ve seen since then more ie’s.. how people can live.. govern selves .. and potentially org to political actions.. outside of state structures..

1 min – p: but also noticed/witnessed that many of those experiments are getting shorter.. smaller.. more generic.. more like a long/large conference.. so what distinguished projects that create culture and those that don’t.. and what would it take to actually produce something that is enduring over time and actually produce real/political communities that engage in collective action

how we gather in a space is huge.. need to try spaces of permission where people have nothing to prove to facil curiosity over decision making (options).. because the finite set of choices of decision making is unmooring us.. keeping us from us..

2 min – p: vitalik.. thinking/participating in the space.. and writing a lot on this topic.. together we want to explore what is/isn’t working.. what can we learn from those success/failed experiments.. so we can gather new insights on how to actually build network nations which are not just temp community.. but actually can become lasting political actors

3 min – (convo starts) p: on zulalu which i visited for a few weeks.. where network nation was born.. can you tell us about the motivation that helped you to do zulalu.. what were you trying to achieve

4 min – v: at the time i had been thinking about a lot of similar projects.. how crypto could improve urban econ.. even before crypto.. what it means to create new communities/societies/tribes.. at end of 2022 a lot of people who wrote a lot of things.. interesting discussion.. felt like right time to move to action.. so w zulalu.. let’s just do a real life experiment that pushes us in directions that haven’t been tried before..t

but they have.. all you’ve been talking about has been tried before (even by me.. ie: on the ground ness).. if you legit want freedom.. wish we could talk.. ie:

the thing we’ve not yet tried/seen: the unconditional part of left to own devices ness

no one has legit tried that to date.. and to me.. everything else is same song (aka: nothing sans any form of m\a\p)

5 min – v: talking about who all he collected for the 200 for 2 months.. create a temp city and see what happens

need to try a sabbatical ish transition

v: combining all the things that have been tried.. but this was longer version and larger scale.. as close as possible to what a new society would look like if actually tried to do it.. but in a way that’s still feasible.. if too small.. too many dynamics you would miss.. 2 month duration got past point of people thinking of experience as a break in life.. thinking for these 2 months this actually is my life.. listed all things people were doing..

ooof.. so wish we could talk man..

on the ground ness.. iterating for 5 years

so i’ve tried 200.. i think we need at least 1000.. and need to set out for a year.. aka: a sabbatical ish transition

7 min – v: trying to figure out step that is much more ambitious than what’s already been done many times so could learn some new things.. t

ie: whatever for a year.. a legit sabbatical ish transition

otherwise we’ll keep perpetuating the same song.. the whac-a-mole-ing ness of sea world.. of not-us ness.. of part\ial ness.. [again].. for (blank)’s sake..

8 min – p: specific/novel about zulalu.. membership approach.. people needed a visa.. what were you discriminating against.. what were you trying to achieve thru this selection process

oooof..

9 min – v: we found 10-20 people and had them invite people.. that we would just accept.. people that would make sense for zulalu.. some from ethereum, longevity, et al.. goal was to find/bring people who were part of a few particular cultures/spaces.. but more than just one.. people who were interesting who would provide value to zulalu while it was happening.. wanted to avoid people who would pop in opportunistically .. trying to shoulder projects get investments.. have geeks.. then have sociopaths.. we were trying to be selective

ok.. so you’re not going to get it.. dang.. dang..

12 min – v: part of goal is .. what is the next direction.. a lot of diff visions where 1st and 2nd steps might align.. but 5th.. or 10th step.. very diff.. so part of my goal was to discover next steps that make sense.. that is one of the things zulalu ended up not doing.. what’s next was this big open question

need to try ie: imagine if we listen to the itch-in-8b-souls 1st thing everyday & use that data to connect us (tech as it could be.. ai as augmenting interconnectedness)

13 min – v: at end of 2023.. i made decision to decentralize zulalu.. encourage people to do all of their own thing.. we say edge city, etc etc ….. come out of that.. goal was to see how some of these projects diverge and coop where we can.. we coop’d in resources and infra.. i saw that as process of discovery..

14 min – v: i think my recent change of mindset since then.. i do believe in permanent locations more.. to me.. whole point of doing these things.. able to instantiate a lot of things with a lot more depth.. so need permanence.. ie: just paper is all you can do if something lasts 40 days.. so that’s starting to happen now.. (needs to last longer than 40 days)

16 min – p: distinction between city and tribe/nation.. tribes of that nation are they bound to same constraints.. can we create a tribe that has nation ness feature.. permanent at a digital level.. some permanence at local.. zulalu started w communities that found each other thru internet then bringing together.. this initial cultural affinity.. then new culture emerged.. which came to degree of kinship.. pop up city is possibility for digitally aligned communities do build.. does this permanence also apply for tribe/nation thing?

19 min – v: we don’t want everyone in space to be jumping between locations every 40 days.. there’s a cost.. not all can be that mobile.. costs money.. one thing on physical venues.. there are generic venues.. tribal venues.. then what about one designed for tribes w/o designing for a specific one..

how we gather in a space is huge.. need to try spaces of permission where people have nothing to prove to facil curiosity over decision making.. because the finite set of choices of decision making is unmooring us.. keeping us from us.. via a legit use of tech (nonjudgmental exponential labeling) to facil the seeming chaos of a global detox leap/dance.. for (blank)’s sake..

20 min – v: spaces/room that has 100-200 chairs and big screen.. movie theater and conference room.. hard to find.. so zulalu built a dome.. lots of people used it.. see pop ups happening inside of it..makes total sense

this is city sketchup ness..

21 min – p: annoying that people have to travel all over the world.. but if only location based.. missing out on all people in world that could be part of same nation/community.. so want to be sure there is capacity of connecting

this is as infra ness – app/chip update ideas

22 min – v: i agree.. one of big diffs between all projects and traditional nations.. there’s always one core that wants to stay full time.. some come/leave in frequently.. diff versions work for people.. value in going around and seeing diff communities.. but because of passport ness difficult for some.. don’t want to over index on nomad path.. best to support both types of groups

24 min – v: this was something bitcoin community was trying to inch toward .. ie: bitcoin embassies.. go to diff places around world would go to embassy.. recognize something that is your culture.. can talk about same things et al.. at same time.. diff kind of bitcoin community so makes it interesting..

29 min – v: in long term community bonding from interest in people rather than ideas/project.. i think ethereum created that.. and definitely happens in crypto..

not happening if people not themselves.. aka: if still in sea world

33 min – why kinship is hard to design..

stopped listening here .. at least for now..

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