michael (levin) on platonic space ness
michael levin on platonic space ness
aka: that seemingly viral paper everyone is obsesses with..
however.. please note: the below is with my warning ness
adding page via tweet [https://x.com/drmichaellevin/status/2097681695856058801?s=20]:
Here it is – the official, revised, peer-reviewed version of my Platonic Space paper. https://mdpi.com/2409-9287/11/5/161 Of all the many unpopular positions I’ve taken over the decades – bitter controversies around the origin of left-right asymmetry in embryogenesis, bioelectricity and genetics, diverse intelligence, etc., this one has by far generated the most pushback: serious (grateful for those!) and energetic attempts to move me to other views, pleas to just drop it and not talk about it (for several different reasons), nasty emails and accusations, impacts on reviews of papers that have nothing to do with this, etc. Kind of amazing to me how incendiary this is. What can I say… Our job is to call it as we see it, and right now for me, this is it. Apologies to collaborators and colleagues for any shrapnel! Time will tell if this pans out or not; I’ve placed my bets. And btw, if you think this stuff is weird and uncomfortable, just wait… There’s much more on the way. The knob turns slowly but as long as the data keep coming, I’m going to say what I think it all means and follow it to the next steps it enables. Buckle up!
from paper linked:
Ingressing Minds: Causal, Non-Physical Patterns In-Form Natural, Synthetic, and Hybrid Embodiments by Michael Levin
Abstract
I argue that the emerging sciences of synthetic morphology and diverse intelligence suggest *non-physicalist models of mind and show how they can be empirically investigated. Whence the anatomical, physiological, molecular-biological, and behavioral properties of engineered new beings that have never before existed, and do not have a history of selection? **Understanding, predicting, and guiding new forms of life and mind requires characterizing a structured latent space of patterns. Developmental, synthetic, and behavioral biology should take seriously, and exploit, the kinds of non-physicalist ideas that are already a staple of Platonist mathematics. I propose the following hypotheses. (1) Patterns in this space span a highly variable degree of agency, comprising a spectrum ranging from static truths studied by mathematicians to active ones studied by behavioral scientists (i.e., some patterns on the same spectrum as mathematical truths are kinds of minds). (2) ****The relationship between mind and body is the same as the relationship between causally instructive mathematical facts and physics. (3) Living beings have no monopoly on the “free lunches” provided by the ingression of these patterns into the physical world. While traditional computationalist views of living and cognitive systems are insufficient, *****my framework erases artificial distinctions between organisms and machines, framing all physical constructs (natural or engineered) as being, to various degrees, in-formed by patterns from the latent space. I sketch a research program, already begun, inspired by these ideas. Such frameworks, while contradicting long-held assumptions of both mechanists and organicists, could have many implications for evolutionary biology, regenerative medicine, AI, and the ethics of synthbiosis with the forthcoming immense diversity of morally important beings.
*but why? ie: graeber can’t know law et al..
**cancerous distractions to the dance
***graeber violence/quantification law et al
****graeber unpredictability/surprise law if organism as fractal
*****oi.. thomas.. oi
Keywords:
basal cognition; diverse intelligence; forms; developmental biology; biomedicine; philosophy of mind
I eschew questions about whether the space is “ontologically real”, because as an engineer, to me “real” simply means whatever I need to worry about or can take advantage of, and these patterns certainly meet that criterion
to me.. ie of whalespeak
The most insightful, most impactful (for research) reason why things in the world are the way they are should be considered their cause, and both mathematical and higher-order (mentalistic) patterns are proposed to serve this causal role in their respective physical media
to me.. nothing to date legit ‘data’.. all like from whales in sea world and sea world in sea world
Regenerative medicine, developmental biology, bioengineering, AI, and ethics all require that we learn to predict, and ethically manage, the behavioral properties of novel constructs at many scales. As a community, we are currently not good at this, and it’s likely an existentially important goal for human and ecosystem flourishing
these aren’t in order of the paper.. but will end on this one.. as it unsettles me the most
again.. graeber unpredictability/surprise law et al.. if organism as fractal.. if life over survival ness.. if we want to be legit free
findings from on the ground ness deep dive on why we need tech w/o judgment
ie: the dance won’t dance unless/until it’s 1\ all of us 2\ legit free
nothing to date (ever since that day) has gotten to that root of problem
legit freedom will only happen if it’s all of us.. and in order to be all of us.. has to be sans any form of measuring, accounting, people telling other
clearer.. at least to me.. below..
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starting with asking google to compare the above with ie: tech as softwave ness:
The Breakthrough:
His lab proved that you don’t need to rewrite the genetic hardware to change the anatomical outcome. In his famous two-headed worm experiment, the worm’s DNA was completely normal and unchanged. By briefly changing the voltage pattern of the tissue, the cells “remembered” a new shape and built two heads. When those two-headed worms reproduced, they continued to hatch with two heads—proving that anatomical memory can be inherited electrically, completely bypassing DNA
How It Is Helpful for Humanity (The Practical Applications)
Current medical treatments usually require constant micromanagement (taking a pill every day, or managing millions of cells individually). Bioelectricity allows scientists to give the body a high-level command and let the cells do the hard work.
- Regrowing Human Limbs: Humans cannot regrow limbs, but African clawed frogs normally can’t either. Levin’s lab applied a brief bioelectric treatment to amputated frog legs, signaling the cells to “build a leg here”. The cells took over and grew back functional, multi-toed legs. To commercialize this for human amputees, he co-founded Morphoceuticals.
- Reversing Cancer Without Chemotherapy: Traditional cancer treatments kill healthy cells along with tumors. Levin’s view is that a cancer cell is simply a healthy cell that has lost its electrical connection to the body’s grid, causing it to revert to a selfish state (replicating indefinitely). By using simple, existing blood pressure medications to open cellular electrical gates, his lab successfully forced cancer cells back into the network, causing them to stop being cancerous and resume normal function.
- Ending Birth Defects: Instead of attempting risky gene editing on embryos, bioelectricity could allow doctors to scan an embryo, find flawed voltage patterns (like a missing brain signal), and correct the electrical voltage to guide the organs to grow perfectly anyway.
The Ultimate Goal: The “Anatomical Compiler”
The long-term vision is an anatomical compiler. Imagine a software program where a doctor could draw a healthy kidney or an arm, and the computer would translate that shape into a specific map of electrical currents. A non-invasive bioelectric patch would then stream those instructions directly to the patient’s cells, triggering the body to heal itself from the top down.
yes.. sounds exactly like bioelectronic medicine (or “electroceuticals”), which is a real and rapidly growing field.
The FDA has approved several sophisticated devices that use software to send electrical signals to the body. For example, there are vagus nerve stimulators to treat autoimmune diseases, deep brain stimulation for Parkinson’s, and spinal cord stimulators for chronic pain.
However, Levin’s work is considered a new frontier because existing software treatments and Levin’s research target two entirely different electrical networks in the body:
1. Existing Treatments Target the “Wires” (The Nervous System)
All current FDA-approved bioelectronic devices target neurons and nerves.
- How they work: They act like an engineer tapping into a telephone line. They zap a specific nerve to force a muscle to move, block a pain signal, or suppress inflammation.
- The limitation: It is millisecond-fast, localized communication. You cannot use a nerve stimulator to grow a new liver, because nerves do not have “blueprints” for organs.
2. Levin’s Work Targets the “Wi-Fi” (Non-Neural Bioelectricity)
Levin is studying non-neural bioelectricity. Every single cell in your body—whether it is a skin cell, liver cell, or bone cell—is constantly broadcasting and receiving slow-moving voltage signals to its neighbors.
- How it works: This is not a “wire” sending a shock. It is a slow-moving, body-wide electrical field that works like a collective cellular Wi-Fi network.
- The distinction: This network dictates 3D anatomy and shape. It is the network that tells an embryo where to put the eyes, how long an arm should be, and when to stop growing.
so we’re assuming we know more than the human body
Feature Existing Bioelectronic Software Michael Levin’s Research Target The Nervous System (Nerves/Brain) Non-Neural Cells (Skin, Organs, Flesh) Speed Milliseconds (Fast zaps) Minutes to Hours (Steady voltage gradients) Current Use Blocking pain, reducing inflammation Altering anatomy, tissue regeneration The “Command” “Stop sending pain signals to the brain.” “Build a functional, 5-toed limb right here.”
softwave doesn’t block pain or inflammation.. that’s ie: tylenol.. rather.. it creates new pain and natural inflammation
Why This Matters for Humanity
If you use existing software treatments, you can manage symptoms (like pacing a heart or stopping a tremor).
If you crack the code to Levin’s non-neural bioelectric network, you unlock morphogenetic control. You gain the ability to tell a body to rebuild a complex, multi-tissue structure from scratch. Existing devices can’t do that because they are talking to the body’s emergency alert system (the nerves), while Levin is trying to talk to the body’s construction crew (the collective intelligence of the cells).
not buying that.. i think we have things that already do a natural reset .. to me (warning ness) this is just like needing a reboot for society.. not about knowing things .. collective intell.. et al.. it’s about a legit wake up call .. and then trusting the body to do whatever it needs to .. the way it needs to do it..
It is not “natural” for a human to regrow an arm or a leg. Humans naturally heal by forming scar tissue, not by regenerating complex limbs.
to me.. that’s whalespeak.. not legit data from legit free humans.. ie: black science of people/whales law et al
nothing to date has worked (to free/reset .. get us back to us) . not because it couldn’t.. but because nothing to date has been about everyone.. and we need everyone for the dance to dance
What makes this research unique is that it doesn’t try to change human genetics to force natural regeneration. Instead, it seeks to override the body’s natural default settings using artificial triggers.
again.. sounds more like tech as softwave ness.. if we see the default settings of the cope\ing ness of whales in sea world.. ever since that day
Here is how scientists are trying to turn an unnatural process into a medical reality:
1. The Human Body Already Has the Data
Every cell in your body contains the exact same DNA blueprint that successfully built your arms, legs, and organs when you were an embryo. That data is still there. However, once you are born, the human body naturally flips a switch. It chooses scarring over regeneration to protect you from infections and blood loss in the wild.
again.. to me.. this is a huge red flag.. that this is a cancerous distraction.. ie: body choosing scarring over regen is again he cope\ing ness of whales in sea world.. ever since that day.. not legit us.. who just need a reboot (that may not be an arm or whatever.. but it has to be an all of us thing)
2. Overriding the “Scar” Default
Levin’s lab aims to intercept the body’s natural response immediately after an injury. By applying an artificial bioelectric signal, they fool the cells into thinking they are back in the embryonic stage.
to me.. again.. yeah.. we need a reboot.. but once we get a legit one.. we don’t need some intell telling us what we did back in the embryonic (aka: not yet scrambled) ‘stage’.. – note – i see stage ness as a cancerous distraction as well..
- The Natural Process: Cut a limb \(\rightarrow \) Cells detect trauma \(\rightarrow \) Cells rush to build a scar patch.
- The Bioelectric Override: Cut a limb \(\rightarrow \) Apply a customized bioelectric device \(\rightarrow \) Cells receive a “grow anatomy” signal \(\rightarrow \) Cells begin rebuilding the bone, muscle, and blood vessels.
but not naturally.. rather.. via some outside intell telling it how to do it.. aka: people telling other people what to do
3. Real-World Proof: The BioDome
to me.. another huge red flag.. thinking something has been ‘proven’
To prove this isn’t just theory, Levin co-founded a company called Morphoceuticals to test this on mammals. They created a wearable wearable device called the BioDome.
In animal trials, they placed this wearable sleeve over the stump of an amputated leg. Inside the sleeve is a cocktail of drugs that opens and closes specific cellular ion channels. This artificial manipulation changes the electrical voltage of the tissue, sending a high-level “build leg” command. The animal’s own cells then execute the instruction, triggering complex anatomical growth that would never happen naturally.
aka: people telling other people what to do
our problem is we define ‘naturally’ as how humans have always been/seemed.. via our research ness.. our history ness.. again – black science of people/whales law et al
findings from on the ground ness deep dive on why we need tech w/o judgment
ie: the dance won’t dance unless/until it’s 1\ all of us 2\ legit free
nothing to date (ever since that day) has gotten to that root of problem
legit freedom will only happen if it’s all of us.. and in order to be all of us.. has to be sans any form of measuring, accounting, people telling other people what to do
Ultimately, *the goal is not to wait for humans to naturally evolve regeneration. **The goal is to use bioelectric software to hack our existing cellular hardware, forcing the body to rebuild itself on command.
if *this is legit the goal.. **even this.. as amazing as it all obviously sounds to people today.. isn’t deep/fast enough..
ie: even if you zapped 8b people with it today.. which would be relying on tech/ai to decide what each person needs.. because there is no way anyone.. any group of people could decide for 8b people quickly.. we would still have issues of needing mental detox et al.. so we don’t ie: grow and arm and then act like we did before and get it cut off again.. or whatever
if we want the fastest regen of all of humanity.. we need to use tech for the one thing it can actually do today that we can’t.. be a nonjudgmental listener to the itch-in-8b-souls 1st thing everyday & use that data (unconditional labeling of ie: idiosyncratic jargon) .. exponentially fast to connect us..
to facil the seeming chaos of a global detox leap/dance
ie: whatever for a year.. a legit sabbatical ish transition
otherwise we’ll keep perpetuating the same song.. the whac-a-mole-ing ness of sea world.. of not-us ness.. of part\ial ness.. perpetuating survival triage.. for (blank)’s sake..
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be you. 