george and michel ai convo

george pór and michel bauwens ai convo

started here via george aug 2025 tweet [https://x.com/technoshaman/status/1956964792523997641]:

Michel, if you come up across people who are seriously interested in putting AI in service of communal and social flourishing, would you please let me know about them?

michel: I’ll try, I have not been very AI focused I must confess, but of course, I recognize this is a crucial area. If you could share what you already have, I could start a new section of the wiki devoted to precisely that, and this will set me going ?

george: Will do. There are lots of open source/civic AI of P2P interest, but the focus of my forthcoming research seminar is captured by its working title: Discovering, Cultivating, and Connecting Islands of Coherence, supported by Humans Co-Evolving with Wisdom-Fostering AI Agents.

‘islands of coherence’ we need most: *the itch-in-8b-souls 1st thing everyday

‘wisdom’ we need most: tech as it could be.. ai as augmenting interconnectedness.. as nonjudgmental expo labeling.. to listen/facil *that data in order to connect us and org us around legit needs

the thing we’ve not yet tried/seen: the unconditional part of left to own devices ness

[‘in an undisturbed ecosystem ..the individual left to its own devices.. serves the whole’ –dana meadows]

there’s a legit use of tech (nonjudgmental exponential labeling) to facil the seeming chaos of a global detox leap/dance.. for (blank)’s sake..

ie: whatever for a year.. a legit sabbatical ish transition

mufleh humanity law: we have seen advances in every aspect of our lives except our humanity– Luma Mufleh

then michel tweet [https://x.com/mbauwens/status/1956984925527413000]:

This is an important article. As you know, my focus is on ‘Crypto for Real’ or in other words, the transition towards the new model of Cosmo-Local Production. Question: is the DAO/Blockchain/Crypto trinity sufficiently adapted for this task ? @TiberiusB has a convincing article explaining why it isn’t: * The Limitations of Blockchain and DAOs for Complex Economic Processes: DAOs Are Only a Good Model for Governance Without Productionhttps://sensoricablog.blogspot.com/2025/07/beyond-ledger-why-blockchain-and-daos.html The Blockchain Architecture’s Global State Creates Consensus Bottleneck Inappropriate for the Coordination of Physical Production https://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Limitations_of_Blockchain_and_DAOs_for_Complex_Economic_Processes

tiberius on econ org

goerge: > Global State Creates Consensus Bottleneck Inappropriate for the Coordination of Physical Production Is that true for Holochain, too?

my reply: arthur (from holochain page): ‘holochain.. for solving similar problems.. but w/o bottlenecks.. et al’ [https://youtube.com/watch?v=2FJL3ibnZlY ].. what if the bottlenecks aren’t the problem.. what if the problem is.. we’re trying to solve the wrong problem..

then tweet from hessu [https://x.com/Hessu357/status/1957036072250036491]:

Underlying problem is social, centralization of power and wealth. Our old systems are built on this and are functioning with competition, scarcity, extraction, greed and hoarding. This needs to be changed first to co-operation, regeneration and build alternative systems on that.

my reply: to me problem deep enough to resonate w/8b today is that we need to org around legit needs (ie: authenticity and attachment) via gabor maté: ‘the fundamental reality is that we are all human beings.. and we basically all have the same needs: authenticity and attachment’ [maté basic needs law]

we need a problem deep enough to resonate w/8b today.. via a mechanism simple enough to be accessible/usable to 8b today.. in an ecosystem open enough to set/keep 8b legit free

ie: org around a problem deep enough (aka: org around legit needs) to resonate w/8b today.. via a mechanism simple enough (aka: tech as it could be) to be accessible/usable to 8b today.. and an ecosystem open enough (aka: sans any form of m\a\p) to set/keep 8b legit free

hessu: As I see this can be done by combining community, philosophy, technology, currency, reputation and give people long term goals in communities for working, educating and improving themselves.

my reply from george on chi:

to me.. legit freedom will only happen if it’s all of us.. and in order to be all of us.. has to be sans any form of measuring, accounting, people telling other people what to do.. because only way authenticity ness remains in tact

so to me.. ie of cancerous distractions include: currency, reputation, goals, work/ed ing others, improving ness.. et al

hessu: Yes, everyone needs to be included and pyramid model of power and wealth, hierarchy changed to heterarchy. Basic needs are met with mutual credit currency that is earned. Accounting can still be part of alternative systems but in co-operative form for trust to benefit people.

no reply.. but again.. ie: credit/currency/earn/accounting ness all cancerous distractions.. you’re (hessu) referring to ‘basic needs’ as ‘survival’ ness.. but we need to try life over survival ness

findings from on the ground ness:

1\ undisturbed ecosystem (common\ing) can happen

2\ if we create a way to facil the seeming chaos of 8b legit free people

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