We’re going live June 30th! Public talk on our youtube channel ‘Michael Hudson in conversation with Steve Keen & Hannah Appel’ Subscribe to the event
we need to do something similar (to ancient debt jubilees).. our central banks can easily create money, deposit it in bank accounts and set it against existing debts.. i can see the merits of th eidea if savers aren’t penalised and everyone can be persuaded that the payment is permanent but also a one-off.. why not?’
because that would still leave us in a market/money/measuring based economy.. if we want a legit alt (if want to be legit free).. we need to try something legit diff.. something that gets to the root of problem
hannah (host/facilitator): reads blurb from dgi: (dg quote) it is north that owes south not other way around.. his project was to unmask these.. intros steve and michael
m: what david was talking about w amy.. the role of fin sector in econ.. that means the 1%-10%.. all financed by debt.. how does fin sector justify this.. (then goes on to describe econ system to date).. question is not democracy but national sovereignty
steve: all i would add is it’s not just debts but plunders.. so saying have to return debts is just an abomination
hannah: after we focus on structural.. not just that countries are in debt.. it’s that they owe us dollars.. what is new/diff/repeating from that structural adjustment period.. outside us and dollar system
michael: steve has done most in showing that economists don’t talk about debt.. money is a veil of the real activity.. reality is debt is instrusive into econ.. not really a product .. it’s a transfer payment.. gdp includes interest as a product.. late fees are called providing a fin service..
nika in chat: Nika DubrovskyI’m in Kenya now. It always starts the same way —someone arrives with a vision, then come the loans, then come the instruments of enforcement.And it always ends in either war or “controlled” poverty.
m: what steve’s talking about is the diff between productive and unproductive debt (what most debts are).. productive provides means for borrower to repay..
CommonGooseIt in chate: doesn’t seem to me that a diagnosis of a disease necessarily has anything to do with the cure at all, especially considering the holistic nature of health. The same applies to societies as a whole.
hannah: in chat – talking of anal and critique.. i want to offer that both of you have talked of alts.. i would say it’s already in the convo.. but make it clear.. where in your anal is there a prescription.. that’s the provocation
m: common denominator for david and me.. debt can’t be paid w/o debt cancellation.. then regulation to promote productive lending.. ie: china.. keeping debt as public utility
CommonGooseI in chat: ‘just feel a bit like am in a groundhog day of listening to left analysis, and see very little in the way of moving towards something different
Darren Wendroff in chat: @monika hardy in my opinion, until there is real public engagement, an Assembly, it will feel like this.
Darren Wendroff in chat: @monika hardy I looked up Nonheirarchal listening, to me it sounds exactly what I meant by assembly, a system where information flows freely across all levels of an organization
darren – yeah i googled it too.. not what i meant.. ha
Darren Wendroff in chat: Why don’t you write what you meant then
ha.. part of the hierarchy.. having to write what you meant et al.. i meant listening with no hierarchy..
google: Nonhierarchical listening, also known as mindful or psychologically informed listening, focuses on creating a safe and open space for communication where individuals can freely express themselves without judgment or hierarchy. It involves actively trying to understand the speaker’s perspective, paying attention to both verbal and non-verbal cues, and being present in the moment. This approach can be particularly helpful in building trust and strengthening relationships, both personal and professional.
just listing the hierarchies i see right off the top: mindful/psych informed listening (until we have global detox the mind/psych can’t even inform listening); trying to understand speaker (yet paul know\love law); building trust (that’s assuming it has to be built.. when to me it’s just unconditional from the get go.. otherwise it’s judgment); professional (that’s assuming any occupation ness.. any earn a living ness.. any label ness)..
hannah: we believe reg people have untapped collective leverage over econ.. together powerful.. get together in debt contracts.. we need to support stuttering renaissance.. et al and everyone should join a union
Darren Wendroff in chat later: @MattStew it’s too hard to have this conversation here, but it’s a very important conversation
yeah that..
Luis Aldamiz in chat: @Nika Dubrovsky – Not only about “commons”, I’m talking about the whole economy, else some will have massive power and will corrupt the system always.
m: nothing steve and i can do to raise consciousness in system we’re in.. it will have to be invested interests themselves save themselves.. more likely a collapse leading to people saying.. how did all of this happen
be you. 