adding page this day – via michel rt:
Deep Adaptation? Deep Transformation? Or Both?”
Great #online discussion with @JeremyRLent earlier this week. If you couldn’t make it, you can watch it now via the link below. Do add your thoughts in the comments.
Original Tweet: https://twitter.com/GreenRupertRead/status/1500169277638205442
convo between jeremy lent @JeremyRLent and rupert read @GreenRupertRead
before listening .. thinking.. adapting is perpetuating
tweet has 2 links: 1\ to pdf of convo.. but can’t open it unless you join.. ugh 2\ 76 min video.. that is embedded somewhere so can’t seem to embed or whatever here
notes/quotes from video:
8 min – rupert: on connections to ukraine.. key bread support
9 min – rupert: if we had adapted earlier and not been dependent.. great move now.. toward energy self sufficiency et al.. must be done to avoid being over a barrel by putin next winter
10 min – rupert: that’s why.. need strong adaptation perspective .. no longer rational to believe no chance of collapse.. and as soon as you believe there is a chance.. have to engage in ins policy.. and that’s how we should see adaptation .. as insurance.. huge to arsenal of responses
oi to responses ness and ins ness and adaptation ness.. just perpetuating deep underlying that you keep bringing up
12 min – jeremy: on any way out.. just drives underlying deeper.. collapse inevitable.. so how do we respond.. on inevitably vs likeliness.. and don’t look up.. if asteroid.. that’s a time to deeply adapt.. be open to collapse.. and i don’t feel we’re even close to that.. the tonality in which we engage is crucial..
15 min – jeremy: problems are far more systemic than almost anyone is looking at.. only by recognizing the depth at which we have to shift society that we do have the possibility of changing trajectory
this is when i decided to add page.. i’d add.. that anyone is listening for.. i’m guessing many are looking at and have an idea what that depth is
ie.. our findings:
2\ if we create a way to ground the chaos of 8b legit free people
rupert: we have to be willing to look reality in the face and our love affair w tech and science make that difficult.. if we don’t look deeper.. are in serious trouble..
17 min – rupert: we need profound transform.. see on way to that.. but as student of joanna macy.. agree.. no where near to happening and not happening at pace to save from collapse
18 min – rupert: to be signed up to deep adaptation.. don’t have to think collapse is inevitable.. only avoid collapse by transforming in such a way that civ is no longer civ in any meaningful sense..
19 min – rupert: how do we aim for something not collapse.. my way of framing it is transformative adaptation..
20 min – rupert: to date.. adaptation has been defensive and shallow.. illusion to deep ecology.. ie: what if had deep adaptation.. the framing concern i have w deep transformation.. not sure what it would mean to be shallow transformation
22 min – jeremy: by shallow transformation.. transformation in part of system rather than entire.. ie: 3 horizons model of change 1\ steps now 2\ what can see at horizon 3\ something beyond.. notion is that .. deep transformation.. we need to move to 3rd horizon.. shallow transformation is like the 2nd one.. ie: tesla.. transformative w/in auto industry.. paradigm shift but only w/in one part..
23 min – jeremy: what we need to look at .. this capitalist system.. we live in a system based on extraction/exploitation.. underlying world view.. humans separate from nature et al.. from each other.. everything about our life meant to improve at expense of everything else..
24 min – jeremy: i’m talking about deep transformation.. what it would be like to build a civilization on a fundamentally diff basis.. basis of what is life affirming.. flourishing for all humans.. on a regenerated earth.. that’s deep transformation.. that’s what we need
only works if it is legit all.. but once we say ‘build a civ’.. exclusionary.. you’re right.. we need something legit diff.. that’s not it
24 min – jeremy: people say.. we don’t have time for that.. but point is that’s the only way we can begin to turn this order around is by shifting direction itself not by making a few steering adjustments
and today we have the means for that.. so actually.. the fastest way possible.. a global leap/re\set
25 min – rupert: so has to be profound.. aiming at an ecological civ
not profound enough
rupert: ok.. i still think it’s a bit unclear whether it would really make a lot of sense to talk about shallow trans.. but why i choose transform adapt over deep adapt.. i’m keen to emphasize.. we’re well past point where we can get thru any smooth/transitional way.. there’s going to be a lot of pain
oi.. sounds like takes a lot of work ness.. from not listening deep enough.. the pain is what we’re doing now.. the leap would be for all.. so would detox us.. leap over.. all the pain/work/intellect et al
rupert: and there’d have to be a lot of adaptation to our vulnerability to disasters
oi.. rationalization to go part\ial happening here.. let go
26 min – rupert: and that adaptation is going to have to be ongoing and open ended..
yeah.. ongoing.. but nothing about it is open ended.. oi
rupert: going to last for centuries.. and take a long long time to play out.. so for me a virtue of the trans adapt frame.. is that it’s a more decisive break from the hope-ium frame you ref.. and to deep trans frame.. it might make people think.. all we have to do is change our paradigm then everything will be fine.. where my thought is.. we are entering into a profound time of testing for humanity.. this time is going to be horrible/disastrous w a lot more (of that) for a long time to come..
27 min – rupert: one slight place we may differ.. while i agree w you we have to have something positive to aim at.. and my frame of that is the positivity of the transformation
what positivity?.. 1\ that it will happen? if so .. so what if still in sea world or 2\ that it’s a positive action to take? if so.. then just perpetuating sea world/tragedy of the non common with cope\ing ness et al
rupert: what i also think is that we should be very open/explicit about the fact that we have to reap the benefits of the negativity.. by feeling/facing psych pain we can grow (via joanna macy).. something very encouraging about looking at history of disasters.. people become stronger by facing that together.. and by building new communities in those.. maybe our greatest opp is to face the pain.. to get the positive may have to go by way of pain.. i think trans adapt is way to that
you (and joanna and all the other great people) are talking about our potential from years ago.. imagine deeper
imagine if we just focused on listening to the itch-in-8b-souls.. first thing.. everyday.. and used that data to augment our interconnectedness.. we might just get to a more antifragile, healthy, thriving world.. the ecosystem we keep longing for..
29 min – jeremy: one of biggest critiques.. some are really going thru that pain.. so we who have reaped benes.. need to take responsibility to funnel funds to where it’s needed most.. adaptation that is required..
oi.. probably done listening.. total part\ial ness if
31 min – jeremy: just focusing on good doesn’t do justice.. were’ looking at genocide of life itself.. of not ever before.. too much to touch into.. we need to be in community w that profound grief.. so am with you there.. but to me.. i’ve struggled with it.. but i feel i need to feel that just enough to energize me to give me rage/engagement.. but not unlimited grief.. w/o moving into engagement..
33 min – rupert: thanks.. that was really rich.. fundamentally we’re the same there.. profound ness of not getting stuck in that place.. the way you made it sound.. is like should stay there for a few hours.. i think .. sometimes need to be there for weeks.. student asking ‘what’s wrong w despair’.. sometimes necessary to stay quit a while in worst despair.. maybe only that gets us where we need to be
35 min – rupert: when we really allow to go really deep.. get to a deeper energy.. profound energy power.. ie: greta thunberg.. et al.. can go so much further w that.. she didn’t speak for a yr.. and out of that came the world changing movement.. may need to go to that level
but yeah to the listening deep ness.. and the pausing ness.. our problem is in missing the sync of everyone doing that.. again.. humanity needs a leap.. to get back/to simultaneous spontaneity .. simultaneous fittingness.. everyone in sync..
ie: a nother way