peter on self ed

children designed to educate

2018 – 1/3 – Peter Gray on bio design to self ed []

education: sum of everything a person learns that enables a person to live a satisfied/meaningful life

fittingness et al


sometimes we get a little snobby and think ‘what i’m interested in .. everyone else should be interested in’.. in self directed ed we realize all have diff interests

self direct – ed: that derives from self chosen activities and life around that.. comes from pursuing life/interest/play.. leads diff people along diff paths

ie: cure ios city

no matter how much schooling you’ve had.. most of what you’ve learned .. for everyone.. has come from self directed ed.. the things you were really engaged in.. not for a reward/punishment (shallow learning)

10 min – self-directed ed (in all caps – as brand): people who have made deliberate choice to pursue sde rather than schooling.. i think it sounds more positive than unschooling.. tells what you are embracing rather than what you are rejecting..

one of big barriers for people doing this.. sounds strange to others.. so constantly having to justify self.. we want it to be more normal to hear this

12 min – drives in our young children towards learning.. ie: curiosity.. naturally curious about things.. can’t stop them from exploring.. doesn’t stop when get older.. esp interested in what they can do with it

imagine if we just stop there.. and just focus on that.. imagine we just facil daily curiosity  ie: cure ios city.. with 2 convers as infra.. via tech as it could be..

15 min – curiosity is drive that leads to knowledge/understanding.. playfulness is drive that leads to skills.. most places we deprive our children of play.. when children free to play (not stuff directed by adults.. often not even around adults) .. how children keep bodies healthy (not by org’d exercise et al)

gray play deprived law

19 min – on the benes of risky play.. learn to deal with fear et al.. won’t have ie: panic attacks .. when older

21 min – learn language in play.. more complex than in school or with adults.. because really want to communicate

23 min – learn social ness in play.. learn to get along with others.. which is huge.. can’t live w/o others.. more important/vital than reading/writing/math

literacy and numeracy both elements of colonialism.. we need to calculate differently and stop measuring things

26 min – all play involves rules.. but most play rules are implicit.. if explicit.. tend to be competitive games – hunter gatherer had explicit rules but were non competitive

30 min – children naturally drawn to tools of culture .. so learn to use them out of that drive.. so of course today.. children drawn to computers

32 min – we come into world wanting to know what others know.. but by ie: overhearing/eaves-dropping.. rather than being told/direct-instruction

primary way people learn by watching/listening

34 min – drive of willfulness.. want to be in charge of own lives.. went thru phase that will full ness was connected to sinfulness.. can’t be slaves to somebody else.. even to our parents.. we naturally resist those things.. terrible 2’s saying no.. that’s a positive thing.. get away from power

ie: supposed to’s.. of school/work

36 min – drive of planfulness – can’t play w/o a plan.. watch.. children are always .. setting it up..  ie: plan a way to solve problems et al.. if someone else planning your day.. won’t have that ability later

evidence i’ve gathered for this (bio designed for ed) from survey of anthropologists who have lived in h/g bands.. most egalitarian culture ever found.. ie: don’t have leaders.. don’t make decisions by consensus.. any kind of bossing of somebody else.. just don’t tell others what to do.. and people coop and listen without this bossing around and/or praising.. this applies to children too

43 min – reading ‘h/g don’t give orders/punishment/praise

jean liedloff: ‘idea that this is my/your child doesn’t exist.. no impulse to influence/coerce.. the child’s will is his mode of force’


this means willfulness was valued rather than fought against

45 min – asked in survey – how much time did children/teens/married have for free play – answer was all day.. *became adult when had own kids.. important to play across ages (of children)..

but doesn’t have to even be *that way.. the dance begs/needs all (everyone) of us free all day.. ie: 2 convers as infra

we weren’t doing things because we thought they would be valuable.. but because they were fun

48 min – h/g culture no privacy.. can track each other.. learned by learning hunting.. that they saw adults doing

51 min – kids are studying adults.. to see which ones they want to be like

so that was my study of h/g.. so what happened.. not all h/g were this peaceful.. some farmers had ie: ownership issues; almost obligation to be violent; ..

what really happened was agri.. because then property came in.. have to defend what you’ve planted et al.. as soon as got property.. so entered a world where most people were going to be servants to others.. so can’t have free will .. dangerous.. might be killed.. have to just do what told to do..

property et al

56 min – so goal of child rearing became to suppress free will .. (bible ie’s prov 22:15).. beating was almost a synonym for educating.. to beat free will out of child.. but remember.. if didn’t teach child to be subservient.. children would be at great risk of surviving..  fortunately we’re coming out of this.. beginning to value will ful ness.. but point i want to make.. school’s arose in that culture.. of suppressing will full ness

maté parenting law

system crashers (film)

58 min – purpose of protestant schools: 1\ teaching reading.. believing everyone needed to read bible themselves.. even though evidence don’t need to be taught to read  2\ obedience  3\ indoctrination.. so given things to memorize  (1642 – massachusetts magistrates schooling.. all about obedience.. kids had to memorize et al)

1:01 – august franke – head of prussian schooling – timed lessons on biblical doctrine.. ‘above all.. break the natural willfulness of child.. youth do not know how to regulate their lives.. supervisors will stifle sinful behavior and weaken willfulness’.. then school taken by states and no longer religious but patriotic lessons.. now we use psych control.. ie: comparison.. we believe it’s more humane than hitting children.. i’m not sure it is..

1:05 – most people who go into teaching aren’t thinking.. i want to teach children to obey .. but that’s the real lesson of school – obedience.. ie: only way you can fail in school is not doing what you’re told to do..

ie: supposed to’s.. of school/work

we keep saying.. want to have creative/critical thinkers.. but still in old system.. so can’t create critical thinkers.. no way everybody’s natural curiosity going to be same.. so have to use force.. to learn same things.. can’t use that system.. progressive ed’s try to push that system..

begs we try cure ios city

1:08 – so what would happen if you overthrow the system.. *if you just start with an entirely diff kind of school..t..  ie: sudburry.. where it’s not a fiddling with the system that franke created.. it’s an entirely diff kind of setting.. what i think is a setting designed to be for our time and place.. what a h/g band is for h/g group

*this is our problem.. why we keep perpetuating this broken feedback loop.. isn’t that just as much holding onto the system… ie: h/g didn’t have school.. a formal/adult-org’d grouping of any kind.. i realize we think we need that today because most/all parents at work.. need a place for kids.. but isn’t that a big reason h/g ness worked..? for the dance to dance.. we all need to be together.. in the city.. as the day..

let go

absolutely nicer.. but today we can go even deeper.. ie: 2 convers as infra.. via tech as it could be..

1:11 – once you realize it’s not necessary.. that kids can self direct.. how can you justify depriving children.. micro managed all day long..

1:16 – the idea is not new.. summerhill et al.. but hasn’t taken off.. hasn’t caught on .. but i think now is the time: 1\ increased toxicity of imposed schooling

yeah.. i think it hasn’t taken off.. because we can’t seem to let go enough to make it for all of us.. ie: summerhill et al.. just a gathering of kids.. not a gathering of all ages.. in a big enough space.. ie: entire city et al

children today much more depressed.. suicide rate much higher.. research is clear.. school is driving kids crazy.. but instead where labeling kids when don’t fit/obey.. people finally becoming aware of this.. it can’t be that so many are born with an abnormality

2\ increased evidence that sde works.. and bigger risk to leave them in school

3\ ease of sde because of ie: internet; not violating a norm; et al

can go deeper.. can listen to every curiosity and help facil chaos of 8b free.. ie: as it could be..

4\ fit of sde w modern econ.. we need people who can ask questions that no one else thought of asking.. (machines can do all other industrial ish things).. many sudbury grads are entrepreneurs et al

wow.. no.. have to let go of econ as well.. dang.. ie: maté parenting law et al

1:27 – when we see freedom works.. we choose it.. t

this is the problem.. we’ve never tried true freedom.. so we keep having legit reasons to cry: tragedy of commons; lord of flies; .. et al

ie: sudbury ness is still managing people in unnatural ways.. still setting certain people in certain spaces.. rather than all of us free.. everyday.. to listen-to/act/be our  daily curiosity

haven’t found/listened-to other 2 parts