peter (j) on recursive democracy
Revolution Now! w/ Peter Joseph | Ep. 57 Understanding Recursive Democracy & Requisite Variety (sept 9 2025) via 83 min video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E_R-dRlV_I]:
peter joseph.. peter (j) on building an alt..
In a vast range of topics surrounding the idea of Democracy, Peter Joseph explains how a working democracy, from a cybernetic standpoint, would need to be organized very differently from the representative structure seen today. He describes why contemporary democracy is a catastrophic failure, then spending some time on the “activist industrial complex;” then moving into dominant cultural mechanisms of system preservation that limit social change and more, including a detailed dissection on “social inheritance” and the philosophical neuroses that stops society from sharing the fruits of collective society’s technological efficiency, with all the world’s citizens. He also addresses the 4 major feedback loops of societal destabilization, coming from market economics, using an analogy from Stafford beer to express how the sequence of perturbations will begin to accelerate faster than any resting time, along with discussing first principles of environmental sustainability, and how it will serve as the baseline foundation of democratic thought in the future, including with the Integral Project.
via borkedsys tweet [https://x.com/borkedsys/status/1965473704852525353]:
Revolution Now! w/ Peter Joseph | Ep. 57 Understanding Recursive Democracy & Requisite Variety
notes/quotes from video:
2 min – recursive democracy is focal pt today.. it’s important to state up fron that we have to develop a form of community interaction at every level of the development of integral or any such social system design that’s going to work.. as it will be that mechanism that will create the requisite variety to allow the system to adapt and balance itself out..t
if we’re still adapting et al.. will just keep perpetuating the whac-a-mole-ing ness of sea world.. rather.. need interaction of every human (if we want the dance to dance.. forget focus on development et al).. via a mech that will allow (listen to and facil via nonjudgmental expo labeling) itch-in-8b-souls.. need curiosity over decision making (adaptability/balancing/whatever ).. those are about a finite set of choices .. itch is legit infinitesimal unpredictable unadaptable variety
3 min – being an activist is a luxury.. i’m strained as much as any one w domesticate.. money/resources..
4 min – there is nothing in life that demands the most meaning as working to repair and progress society.. you can take all the personal interests we have and all the ideas of success related to them.. at end of day.. none of those things matter.. none hold a candle to importance of the overall sustaining of human life on earth.. if the house you live in is still on fire.. then you’re priorities are wrong..
5 min – i refuse to become part of hte soft soiopathology that defines normality
6 min – so here i sit.. no other choice than to seek a correction.. truly tragic that we haven’t even gotten the basics right as how to live.. it will take dedicated group.. to pursue resolution .. they may never find in their life time.. focusing on well being of everyone and everything.. not a poetic but a realistic positions
7 min – why contempt democracy didn’t used to be failure.. not working..
20 min – on changing reciprocity to exchange.. mental model that leads to earn ness.. should be able to take care of self w/o need to exchange..
27 min – slaves don’t want to be free.. that want to be slave owners.. need step by step of integral.. people would reject alt.. people are dire.. system change can only be done in a gradual process.. adaptability.. society can only adapt thru experience not just thru ed
oooof… neither man.. that’s why you need gradual ness.. because actually just same song
need to get to root of problem
legit freedom will only happen if it’s all of us.. and in order to be all of us.. has to be sans any form of measuring, accounting, people telling other people what to do
how we gather in a space is huge.. need to try spaces of permission where people have nothing to prove to facil curiosity over decision making.. because the finite set of choices of decision making is unmooring us.. keeping us from us.. adapting/ed-ing.. all unmooring us
ie: imagine if we listen to the itch-in-8b-souls 1st thing everyday & use that data to connect us (tech as it could be.. ai as augmenting interconnectedness)
the thing we’ve not yet tried/seen: the unconditional part of left to own devices ness
[‘in an undisturbed ecosystem ..the individual left to its own devices.. serves the whole’ –dana meadows]
there’s a legit use of tech (nonjudgmental exponential labeling) to facil the seeming chaos of a global detox leap/dance.. for (blank)’s sake..
ie: whatever for a year.. a legit sabbatical ish transition
otherwise we’ll keep perpetuating the same song.. the whac-a-mole-ing ness of sea world.. of not-us ness
30 min – recognition of ongoing dissatisfaction.. forces wants into needs..
need 1st/most: means (nonjudgmental expo labeling) to undo hierarchical listening as global detox so we can org around legit needs
31 min – only move is toward simplify and de materialization.. doing more with less.. focus on efficiency..
rather.. need to facil missing pieces.. so that 8b people grok stopping at enough ness.. (graeber stop at enough law.. garden-enough.. )
42 min – still talking about what’s wrong.. ie: wealth, power, self interest cycle..
48 min – competition not a balancing force.. an imbalancing force.. price of oil should be many times its cost today.. more houses than homeless on street
?.. how is this not same song
53 min – so .. have collapse..
54 min – a viable system is one that can absorb variety, respond adaptively and maintain coherence under a range of stressors.. our current system can’t do this.. a loop of self distruction
no.. that’s just describing supposed cope\ing mechs for sea world
55 min – consider what’s happening in ai.. slowly introducing .. so have to increase controlling.. reg/legislative approach.. how can law system know everything that will go wrong
1:00 – the generic answer is ed.. but is it just conditioning .. in current.. absolutely.. which means ed has to be grounded and influential.. has to be first principles.. we all hope this grounding comes from science.. seems daunting.. but must also be a facil system that enables democratization.. demo inputs need to come in to see how utilized in other forms of econ environ..
1:09 – trump.. cultic belief in admin..
1:13 – rather than thing about truth.. let’s just think about goals.. any goal we can all agree on.. the interest in maintaining survival and well being.. must apply idea of sustainability.. then we are handing color by numbers pattern.. if goal is to be healthy.. sustainable..
need a way that facils life over survival ness
1:15 – first priority – survival.. not abortion, war, .. ie: 1st rule: society does not overshoot it’s resources.. built into decision making systems.. open source design cad system in integral.. people agree upon prior.. guide the most responsible/intelligent decision.. but things change.. so have to have democracy recursive as well.. sounds complex.. but isn’t once established..
1:17 – community designs cad system.. people interested in that will keep everything adapting.. it’s about the people actually interested in working in those areas.. the econ democracy.. the ground of all of this has people interacting at every level.. those interested in areas move in a democratic process in that pocket..
1:18 – i hope that makes sense.. this is how you create a dynamic, evolving, variety absorbing system in a truly democratic way
sure it makes sense.. it’s the game we’ve been playing since forever.. aka: same song
just not the root of problem
sooo.. just another cancerous distraction
taleb center of problem law
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be you. 