nora on healing

nora on healing

Future Thinkers (@FutureThinkers_) tweeted at 8:00 AM on Sun, Jul 12, 2020:
“How do you prepare your children to not fail in the existing system, but to not be attached to it, and to be able to create a new system?” 

@NoraBateson is back on the show to share her views on the current disintegration of societal systems. Tune in!

FTP127: Nora Bateson – How To Heal A Disintegrating Society – 46 min podcast

4 min – i got to give them an ed on systems.. when they were young.. we did 1 hr reading 1 hr writing and some math.. and spanish class all at same level.. that was the moment we really were mutual learning.. together.. but differently.. my kids got to see me learning at the same time i was suddenly their teacher.. that was a real relationships changer.. i wish i knew how profound it was.. then tried to put them back in school and they were way ahead.. accidentally

7 min – how do we do this.. as parents.. systems change.. the tiny signaling that goes on.. how do you prep children to not fail in existing system.. while creating new system.. w no attachment to existing.. am i afraid they won’t have a place in the criteria the existing institutions put value on..

maté parenting law

9 min – dad took me out of school.. age 9.. he had lung cancer.. short time to live.. and school was so diff than my home.. wasn’t homeschooling.. he didn’t have a curriculum for him.. i wrote little paper for him.. like how to think in base 5.. he asked me questions.. i didn’t know there were things i wasn’t supposed to know.. wrote poetry.. traveled.. et al.. when he died.. went back to school.. my spelling and repeating info was crap.. math and comprehension and generating/connecting-things were super high.. would have been better in college.. but they put me in 8th grade.. and i never got above a c in math again.. but i had the model.. it was in there.. so .. when i had my own kids.. i knew it was possible.. mitigated the fear.. my father was never anxious about it.. and he never said one word to me about my future..


what a profound gift.. you know how careful you have to be to now fall into that script – of what do you want to be when you grow up.. invites you to see yourself in the system as it is now.. but not to mindful.. of what other pathways.. for me.. esp in this moment.. that’s really important.. that we don’t go future skipping.. because our ideas are completely contaminated by the system we’re in

whales in sea world

supposed to’s.. of school/work

16 min – (on new child being diff every day) – and you have to be diff we him everyday.. a beautiful ie of how to be in mutually responsive complex systems.. sounds so abstract.. people are like ‘have to have strategy/control.. to know what’s going to happen’.. and actually you don’t .. and we never have

bravery to change mind et al

17 min – mike: it’s all just complete intunement w what he needs..

euvie: meta for world.. world is changing and we have to respond every moment – should be tuning into what’s emerging rather than plan/strategize the future

imagine if we tried to dance w the system.. if we just facil daily curiosity  ie: cure ios city

20 min – current structures are turning to sand and scary undercurrents.. this is the time of the unraveling.. doesn’t seem like a good time to put down foundations for a new structure.. good time to think about and pay attention to how we are in relationship..

not everyone has that luxury.. no?

maybe it’s a great time for a new structure.. as long as it’s deep enough so that it doesn’t enclose/oppress any of us..

let’s try this structure: 2 convers as infra

22 min – uncertainty is a noun/state.. it implies there is something still in the uncertainty state.. learning to be in uncertainty.. (opposing states)

23 min – if you add time to that uncertainty.. going to end up w spontaneity.. can’t plan.. need little seeds and time..

fromm spontaneous law et al

26 min – mike: on having a plan.. but not being attached to the end result

and also responding to what does come up.. if your success of a gardener is based on if all your plants grew.. and they didn’t grow.. you’d think you were a bad gardener and maybe quit.. as opposed to.. you’re an experimenter.. explorer.. with the soil/climate.. et al.. there’s nowhere to really hold on.. except.. there is.. that sense of a deep interdependent process of life itself

28 min – the protests.. how important this moment is.. to be recognized as a call for systems change..

the systems change request is always befuddling to the system.. system never understands the systems change request.. ie: is this about incarcerating the police that were violent? not really.. it’s about deep relational processes that have been in play for 400 yrs..t..

there’s something around that question.. how do we be in this together.. in relationship thru systems change that is supportive of something deeper.. rather than that which has been subjected upon us and we have been living in .. t

if equity is everyone getting a go every day.. redefining public education becomes revolution of everyday life.. aka: global equity

so.. ie:  cure ios city.. to undo our hierarchical listening

30 min – i live in sweden now.. people actually trust govt.. this is foreign to me.. comes out in little things that are imbued in this deeper trust of govt.. i don’t have one cell of that in my body.. and if i don’t.. imagine what it’s like in the african american community.. we’re in systems change.. and it’s going to be very confusing.. ie: my mom 90.. ‘they’re going to destroy the democracy’ and i tell her .. it was always an illusion.. how do you destroy what was never there.. i think we need to bring it up.. it’s dangerous.. but dangerous not to..

democracy ness et al

33 min – i posted this hard quote (by my dad) on fb.. that’s hard.. don’t usually do that.. could be accused of being abstract .. from his book.. mind and nature .. eternalarities.. what are those things that are the deep/eternal truths’.. paradoxes in that.. because if say are none.. then that’s an eternal truth

maté basic needs

36 min – quote used word.. tautology – dad’s defn: ‘an aggregate of linked propositions.. in which the validity of the links between them cannot be doubted..’ .. so if i’m making a film that everything is blue.. i don’t have to explain that.. but i have to stay to the logic.. so don’t have to be true.. just have to convince each other it’s true.. so like: children have to get good grades and go to uni

ie: supposed to’s.. of school/work

38 mi – so daughter saying.. ‘how do you keep this question of what’s eternal from becoming a tautology.. because what you see as eternal.. you’re going to see as eternal.. and what if they aren’t eternal.. how would you know.. ‘

pluralistic ignorance..

it’s vital to be able to look at this right now.. in midst of systems change.. in midst of all these things becoming unwound..what are the consistencies.. that become laced into tiniest details of ie: how you raise your kids.. t

consistencies – deep enough: maté basic needs

euvie (@euvieivanova): like self fulfilling prophecies.. that might not be true if we just stop doing it..t

we’re like whales in sea world.. we have no idea what alive people are really like

9 min – the just stop doing it part is really an interesting piece right now because we just had this pandemic moment.. when everybody just stopped doing stuff..t

a rare global pause.. great opp for reset.. and we’re missing it

40 min – some of the consistency of the tautology has lost its muchness.. some stuff accepted as just what is.. stopped being is..t or got revealed in ways that.. for some people there was a strength/robustness to a system that wasn’t stoppable.. that was actually completely stoppable and totally broken

41 min – quote from book: ‘daughter: ‘how can you know if all tautological’ dad: ‘no.. but wants it’s asked i can’t avoid having an opinion.. because we’re in tautologies’ daugher: ‘well.. is it’ dad: ‘is it what’ daughter: ‘tautological’.. (see this is how tautologies work.. and this is the bit i wanted to bring in) dad: ‘alright.. my opinion is that the creatura (living being).. the world of mental process.. (and to my dad.. not academia et al.. but that which is alive) is both tautological and ecological.. i mean that it’s a slowly self healing tautology.. left to itself.. any large pieces will begin to settle toward its tautology.. that is toward.. internal consistency of ideas and processes.. but every now and then the consistency gets torn.. the tautology breaks up.. then the tautology slowly .. immediately .. starts to heal.. and the healing may be ruthless..t.. whole species may be terminated in the process..’

what if there is some thing deep/eternal enough .. that we could org around in order to heal/detox us w/o the ruthless/violence ness

could you/we indulge that possibility


1\ undisturbed ecosystem (common\ing) can happen

2\ if we create a way to ground the chaos of 8b free people

43 min – so i think that’s a really important thing to be considering.. there’s a tear in the consistencies of the internal tautologies and as they’re tearing.. they’re tearing because there’s some bigger interdependency.. some bigger aspect of life.. the ecologies in which we have been living.. let’s call it an ecology of institutions.. they’re interdependent.. in patterned relationships.. in many ways they function like a forest.. except for one itty bitty little detail.. in order to make those institution ecologies work.. they’re destroying/exploiting human beings.. relationships.. other forms of dependencies of life.. so like a vampire.. just eating relationship vitality

45 min – so there’s a healing.. this bigger interdependency/processes..

ends there.. have to become member to hear rest

quote on page.. she must have given later? or bundled diff than how she said it above:

Healing of the system is realigning out of one tautology into a larger interdependence, and that’s going to shred the existing system.