m of care – mar 29
AN OPEN ASSEMBLY “TOOLS OF CARE” with ben arnoff @bentarnoff (author of “Internet for the People: The Fight for Our Digital Future” et al)
[https://museum.care/events/an-open-assembly-tools-of-care/]:
In each case, the question arose: which is the best way to communicate with the public? How can we facilitate open collective dialogue and get people involved in the projects?
The Museum of Care is a practical application, designed to be used outside of an institutional context. That said, the technological resources for its creation up to this point have been very limited – a wordpress web site and free mailing lists.
The question is how to use, develop technology outside of institutional or commercial content?We will meet for the “Tools of Care” Assembly to discuss how we can jointly develop formats of caring for each other and for ourselves.
How to organize horizontal, truly inclusive education? How might spaces of autonomous production and distribution of content be possible?
We also hope to get to know each other, even if virtually.
notes/quotes from meeting:
benjamin tarnoff: how do we do politics thru tech.. to help cultivate diff kinds of social relations.. ie: participatory design method.. machines that would enhance labor.. reinforce workers skills
need 1st/most: means to undo our hierarchical listening to self/others/nature so we can org around legit needs
ben: reason i’m interested in this.. in conclusion. what i’ve been concerned with.. every terrain of politics has its own specificities that provide conditions/constraints.. thru which politics can be practiced.. ie: fems.. household as terrain of politics.. similarly tech inheritance w/in which we are forced to work.. set conditions for ie: mastodon.. sometimes constraints quite difficult.. (how to limit/min that) t.. i don’t have answers.. but this is set of problems i’m trying to work thru..
language as control/enclosure et al
nika: on david mastadon server w no rules.. so will have assembly about rules.. i think it’s amazing what’s going on w mastodon.. ben .. what do youthink about it
ben: open source software project.. basis for decent network.. model is much like email.. independent servers.. looks a lot like twitter.. owner.. is wanting to encode very diff set of values into sm.. no corps.. tech composition reflects these values.. on other hand.. if use mastadon.. looks/feels a lot like twitter.. so question is is there a tension between inheriting basic architecture. while trying to pursue other goals which are counter.. t not asking this in a leading way.. but mastadon is an experiment.. let’s us probe some of these tensions..
hari rat park law et al
nika: so happy when i saw mastadon.. old enough to be one of 1st russian bloggers on live journal .. then taken over by oligarch.. then very small group.. student guys created empagie.. that was very much like mastadon 15 yrs ago.. but every more advanced i think.. in regard to freedom to leave.. so tools of care available for people to leave is very important.. not implemented in mastadon.. but if keep working on that.. maybe can find programmers that can add that.. but for me mastoadon is protected from one taking over..
ben: yeah.. m good on the experiments in collective govt.. ie: twitter decisions made behind closed doors
nika: small group of people on m.. already writing complaints.. ie: he’s rude.. delete him.. i was wondering how to navigate these rules.. to advocate as much absence of rules as possible.. anything not forbidden is allowed.. and forbid as small amount as possible.. so far.. lots of forbiddens and they’re all good ie: no racism.. but then someone has to define racism..
avi in chat: To add to what Nika was saying, our ‘phonebooks’ are enclosed so you cant migrate and leave a community. So mastodon et al not enclosing contacts is handy.
shambhavi: curious to hear.. platforms we usually have access to.. certain info over time gets dominated w those who have lot of social capital.. so over time just hear what one person has to say.. lots no longer heard.. probably lot of wisdom in that untapped potential.. how can we hear others.. t
ben: i guess that’s part of what’s at stake in my question.. what are problems of inheriting basic grammar of ie: twitter.. when trying to (get to something new).. that may be an aspect of sm.. that has to be dismantled..
yeah that.. language as control/enclosure ness et al
need 1st/most: means to undo our hierarchical listening to self/others/nature so we can org around legit needs
nika: should be about people not making decisions for other people.. but for self.. t
need even deeper.. curiosity over decision making.. decision making is unmooring us law
any form of people telling other people what to do.. any form of m\a\p
nika: if don’t do illegal do whatever you want
ben: diff instances have diff practices.. when to suspend/eject people et al.. m does enable interesting experiments in collective govt.. but also makes fascist-ness possible..t decentralized means any one can .. whatever.. at end of day.. best of what are all bad options.. best is to make it least likely for content to reach beyond small circle
gershenfeld something else law
‘….possibly one of the best/most significant impacts of tech is not a better weapon to win a war but tech that gives people something else to do. .. there will always be bad people that want to use best available means to shoot at each other but the roll of tech in giving everybody else something else to do – as a cost benefit trade off – may be one of the best military investments – and the generals got that.. but not clear what office in the pentagon is the office of preventive technology ‘- neil gershenfeld response when asked by pentagon how tech could improve defense/safety
ben: m’s creator has posted listed of approved m servers.. have to commit to actively moderate.. so global code of conduct
avi in chat: Q: What are the problems when we inherit a digital infrastructure built on the idea of communication as information transmission?
problem deep enough.. mech simple enough.. ecosystem open enough
steven: in order to de privatize the internet.. how to do in direct action way.. ie: quarantine fascists.. relegate to own communities..
ben: fascinating/difficult question.. the question.. how do we defeat/isolate political enemies.. and bring ideas to center.. t
gershenfeld something else law
ben: create models of public/coop ownerships in which space of market is shrunk.. demo/coop expanded.. m embodies values aligned w that de privatization.. when create spaces where people have genuine control.. will have anti demo.. fasicstic ideas..
ben: also how to sustain projects that have anti- commercial/capitalist w/o corrupting it.. ie: who is doing admin.. mostly done by volunteers.. which risks burnout.. et al.. in way.. not new problems.. subset of existing familiar.. *how to build relationship that sustain org’d communities w/o burning people out.. **how to build something new out of the old.. t building new world inside old remains the challenge.. how to repurpose it toward something better..
*imagine if we listened to the itch-in-8b-souls (as ultimate energizer) 1st thing everyday & used that data to connect us (tech as it could be.. ai as augmenting interconnectedness)
**hari rat park law.. need legit global re\set.. for (blank)’s sake
nika: we should follow model of open source and social arrangements around that
avi: popularized recently by cory doctorow.. main issue.. about moving away and to communities.. then had question (in chat).. old school communication that permeates ed.. outdated.. how people get around that.. t
idiosyncratic jargon ness via tech as it could be
ben: part of what i struggle w is how do we ensure not only that people have baseline level of connectivity to associate.. needs to be considered a basic right.. on other hand.. need to transform how people connect..t model inherited .. in history interesting ie’s.. (lists some) .. a place for much further work/experimentation.. spaces like this can contribute to that process..
problem deep enough to resonate w/8bn today
mechanism simple enough to be accessible/usable to 8bn today
ecosystem open enough to set/keep 8bn legit free
michael: in u of rules.. stupidity.. post office accessible by everyone even though a B.. has to be a standard by which we communicate.. some people standardized in and some standardized out.. no longer citizen.. standardized out.. standards built on physical infras.. people use twitter to research people you wouldn’t know.. if everyone not on.. what value do you lose there..
nika: i don’t see reason to ostracize fascists.. i would suggest rule for m.. provide safe space for people to talk for people who disagree w each other.. people who agree don’t need to talk
peter kruze: about m of care and dgi site.. if all project/mtgs could be converted to audio only format.. easier to consume.. infinitely more for me.. i do have tech background and can help
nika: amazing idea.. we will do that
christian: been around tech industry past 25 yrs.. whatever decisions made on tech.. should be careful of aspirational tech.. ie: this tech will do this for society.. a lot of that stuff doesn’t work.. good people think about that.. but.. quite often.. what gets lost is aspect of usability.. morally good to use.. but need someone to maintain tech.. if don’t have dedicated tech person .. problem.. so should be something can be used by normal person
problem deep enough.. mech simple enough.. ecosystem open enough
we need a problem deep enough to resonate w/8bn today.. a mechanism simple enough to be accessible/usable to 8bn today.. and an ecosystem open enough to set/keep 8bn legit free
christian: all came of of web 3.. every time someone tries to democratize on internet. be careful
nika: that’s why this is so important.. m is open source.. david in pirate enlightenment.. pirate ships as the republics and very similar to m.. argue.. come together.. go apart.. pirates shifted social infra.. very happy w m..
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notes/quotes from housekeeping:
diff people shared what parts of debt steven should write about.. steven (debt as a should) nika (ch 11)
from me via:[https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/david-graeber-and-jamie-stern-weiner-debt-slavery-and-our-idea-of-freedom]
The language of debt is not an economic one; it’s a language of morality. It has been used for thousands of years by people in situations of vast inequalities of power.
A debt is a promise that has been perverted by mathematics and violence,
and from debt book 383
when one looks a little closer, one discovers that these two elements—the violence and the quantification—are intimately linked.. t in fact almost impossible to find one w/o the other
graeber violence/quantification law.. any form of m\a\p
[for rest of mtg recording was stopped.. so am guessing don’t want it public.. so sent notes i’d taken in email to myself]
anne dubos: how to develop tools for m of care.. ie: sound games w mobile phones.. using phones as tech objects.. rather than personal.. used for sound it makes.. people start playing/changing..
mark: Beautiful repurposing, Anne!
michael: reading out flora’s comments.. because she asked how do non speaking people speak here
steven: i’m happy to read aloud any of flora’s comments.. this is one of those areas we step in it quite a bit .. muddling our way thru.. we’re trying to make accommodations in real time.. happy to provide reading services.. we have others in past who have been non speaking.. and they’ve asked us to read their chat.. this is a community that m of care has not adequately addressed.. any guidance always appreciated
paula maas: like idea of reading comments.. i’m willing of trying to summarize points.. for some of the inclusivity.. let me just read my comment..
nika: i invite everyone to assembly of mastadon
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be you. 