john (f) on regen econ
New Economic Paradigms, Living Systems, & Holistic Thinking with John Fullerton | TGS 149 – nov 2024
via michel bauwens tweet [https://x.com/mbauwens/status/1854467371555307999]:
* New Economic Paradigms, Living Systems, & Holistic Thinking with John Fullerton …
https://youtu.be/GycOcQn3EvI?si=lmF1w4X2kOUq55u
“In this conversation, Nate is joined by unconventional economist John Fullerton to discuss the principles of regenerative economics and the need for shifts in our economic paradigms from reductionist thinking to holistic thinking. Fullerton emphasizes the importance of understanding economies as living systems, advocating for financial and monetary systems that align with the patterns of life.”
from video link:
Our modern economic system is designed to maximize financial capital, viewing money as though it were wealth itself. But what would happen if we viewed wealth more holistically, taking into account our natural, social, cultural, and human capital, too?
In this conversation, Nate is joined by unconventional economist John Fullerton to discuss the principles of regenerative economics and the need for shifts in our economic paradigms from reductionist thinking to holistic thinking. Fullerton emphasizes the importance of understanding economies as living systems, advocating for financial and monetary systems that align with the patterns of life.
If regenerative economics represents a societal shift towards sustainability, how does our modern financial system act as a barrier to that shift? If the ‘myth of separation’ contributes to our current economic problems, what types of radical change are needed to reconcile our values dissonance as our crises deepen and accelerate? Finally, how can we teach ourselves to differentiate between the real economy and the financial economy – and to value the things that genuinely add to human and planetary well-being?
About John Fullerton:
John Fullerton is an unconventional economist, impact investor, writer, and some have said philosopher. Building on and integrating the work of many in the field of ecological economics, he is the architect of Regenerative Economics, first conceived in his 2015 booklet, “Regenerative Capitalism: How Universal Patterns and Principles Will Shape the New Economy.”
After a successful 20-year career on Wall Street where he was a Managing Director of what he calls “the old JPMorgan,” John listened to a persistent inner voice and walked away in 2001 with no plan but many questions. He went on to create The Capital Institute in 2010, which is dedicated to the bold reimagination of economics and finance in service to life. John is also the Chairman of New Day Enterprises, PBC, the co-founder of Grasslands, LLC, and a board member of both the Savory Institute and Stone Acres Farm.
notes/quotes from 90 min video:
13 min – i told myself there had to be a way out of double bind.. we’re leveraged to growth in more ways we realize.. so 1\ we have to keep growing.. 2\ if we keep growing we’ll collapse.. so that’s the double bind..
15 min – i’m very driven by intuition and sync.. thru sync found self working w alan savory.. holistic grazing.. biomimicry on huge grasslands to mimic how nature works.. i cofounded ‘grasslands’ w holistic grazing.. saw w my own eyes that it works.. scientists say it doesn’t work.. so spears in back because questioning science.. because can’t hold variables constant..
17 min – if this works in living system called grasslands.. why can’t it work in what i call living system the global econ..
regen econ: 1\ human econ is a living system
1\ only if oikos ness
19 min – humans living.. planet living.. living systems’ patterns repeat from small to large scale.. so my defense.. made up of humans/techs.. embedded in living system we call earth.. so needs to continue as living to be sustainable.. so now we can articulate the patterns.. toward things..
oi oi oi .. not living if predictable..
graeber unpredictability/surprise law
21 min – i majored in econ.. these questions never occured to me.. didn’t get a phd or i probably wouldn’t be here.. in all domains of knowledge more influenced by reality as a machine et al..
23 min – mainstream econ – on developing theories to explain the wobbles rather than question their assumptions.. analogous to thinking earth is center of universe
27 min – i don’t think any human brain can work the way daniel’s can to get out of box
daniel (w) on regen & self org et al
28 mim – if we can get clear on first principals to create conditions for it to happen.. life/potential to emerge that no one can believe is possible in advance..
29 min – diff between eco econ and regen econ.. regen econ shifting out of purely materialist paradigm into regen paradigm.. if align with patterns/principles of life you manifest potential that is unknowable and unseeable in advance..t very difficult for an economist.. who wants to create a forecast
again.. graeber unpredictability/surprise law .. and graeber can’t know law.. et al
34 min – there are no right first principles.. diff perspectives of complexity.. i’ve got 8.. but (in so doing) i’ve shifted into reductionist thinking.. ok.. as long as don’t confuse them w reality
35 min – 1\ in right relationship.. everything in universe not only connected but interdependent
36 min – 2\ empowered participation.. inclusivity is an ethical position.. but not a description of living system science.. not just be nice and include them in decision.. it’s that all parts need to be empowered to participate in system for system to be healthy.. so problems like poverty/ineq.. fundamental design principle that you can’t ignore
37 min – 3\ honors community in place
38 min – 4\ robust circulation.. more complex than circular.. relates to info.. not just matter and energy.. internet facil robust circulation and empowered participation.. we needed net to fulfill our potential.. problem is we don’t apply living systems to business models
oi.. business not living.. legit freedom will only happen if it’s all of us.. and in order to be all of us.. has to be sans any form of measuring, accounting, people telling other people what to do
how we gather in a space is huge.. need to try spaces of permission where people have nothing to prove to facil curiosity over decision making.. because the finite set of choices of decision making is unmoo
41 min – 5\ in balance.. dynamic balance.. things in nature in balance.. how do we restore the balance between power and constraint that is a reality of living systems
global detox leap.. to get to the unconditional part of left to own devices ness
44 min – nate: so regen econ like doughnut econ.. a framing.. problem i have is they describe problem well.. but no solution.. how do we get from here to there.. is it just go in that direction and these 8 principles cause people to change?.. the miracle in the middle..
45 min – distinction between goals and design principles.. kate’s visualization of donut.. those are all goals..
46 min – dana meadows.. most important way to change a system is the paradigm.. since i read dana i’ve been working on the paradigm..t from reductionist problem solving to holistic.. i’m proposing a concept i can’t tell you what outcome is going to look like
unjustifiable strategy ness..
we can get there via a sabbatical ish transition.. if we try/see the unconditional part of left to own devices ness
48 min – everyone (unpredictable).. suddenly a diff econ.. i can’t say how econ will look.. but i believe pathway out is to work on patterns/principles of how life works..
51 min – i believe we’re in an adolescent stage of development.. don’t think long term..
53 min – oikonomia.. management of house.. what econ is about.. and another word.. chremistasis.. use of money to make money.. i couldn’t put book down.. i thought.. that’s what i do.. aristotle said.. it was unnatural..
organism as fractal ness et al
bachelard oikos law
55 min – we don’t differentiate between real econ and investment econ
yeah.. one living .. (oikos).. one not
1:03 – regen actually exists.. but not for all.. undermines the right relationship.. difficult for me to figure out how to communicate.. because people will feel attacked.. but fin system is probably biggest obstacle to remove in order for natural process of regen to emerge..
perhaps let’s try/code money (any form of measuring/accounting/people telling other people what to do) as the planned obsolescence.. where legit needs are met w/o money.. till people forget about measuring..ie: sabbatical ish transition
1:05 – excess speculation is one winner and one loser.. business of speculation becomes extractive.. undermines health of system
1:13 – there is a pathway out of box we’re in that is sci rigorous.. not just utopia.. essentially participating in the process of life.. that’s what regen means..
1:18 – we all want to activate our agency..
1:21 – i’m not smart enough to tell you how this is going to work.. 1\ worse things get .. higher pressure.. more likely for rad change to happen.. fuel is going to be collapse itself.. (unless collapse to deep.. then people just worry about that than regen)
1:22 – my passion about this is thinking about my kids.. i experienced 911 personally.. got home and hugged kids.. so advice
1:23 – 1\ can’t have convo if we don’t get this.. so .. get yourself educated
oi
1:25 – 2\ the war for my dad gave him purpose.. world we live in now is going to be difficult.. but it will give you a purpose/meaning that our generation lacked..
1:26 – care most about in world: kids, fam, dog, .. that the miracle of life and life we know continues.. i truly believe if we could see our role.. myth of separation is at base of this.. allows us to believe in neoclassical econ.. root cause of polycrisis.. so i’d wave my wand and cause people to wake up to the regen paradigm.. if we could see that we are all both interdependent and interconnected we’d see that we’re chewing on own arm..t
thurman interconnectedness law: when you understand interconnectedness it makes you more afraid of hating than of dying – Robert Thurman (@BobThurman)
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be you. 