livestream – may 27 2016 [may 23-28]




#bitcoin mining estimated to already consume energy equiv to all of Ireland – Adam Greenfield #democraticcities #dcentmadrid

Original Tweet: https://twitter.com/RichDecibels/status/736209866222534656

Richard Bartlett w loomio

Now at #DcentMadrid : Adam Greenfield on distributed consensus and the #Blockchain

Original Tweet: https://twitter.com/ClemencePene/status/736208641196457984

@RichDecibels@monk51295 yes check #DcentMadrid link is there

@monk51295 not sure. @iacocoba is there livestream for democratic-cities.cc


panel with Adam Greenfield (need to go back and catch Paul Mason talk)

33 min – theo: direct democracy is a very concrete/simple instrument of traditional decision making.. direct democracy – an other mode of practicing popular sovereignty


theo: the question of trust.. whether that trust is people or not… depends on question to be decided and not whether i trust somebody.. can open up energy toward a goal

59 min – adam starts – one tech of democracy – 1\ the blockchain.. i’m aware this language is obscure.. 2\ bitcoin… 3\ distributed consensus..

as a distributed programmable trust infrastructure.. this has garnered a lot of interest for those interested in direct democracy… good and troubling

1:01 – using c shape hand .. and if more than 2-3 while restate my verbiage

writing book: radical tech’s .. the design of everyday life.. a notion.. blockchain.. all discusions begin same way.. w inventor of bitcoin.. allows formation of distributed consensus…et al… point: people very swiftly realized this was generalizable framework.. could be backbone .. for all sorts of …relations among people… ie: smart contracts… distributed auton orgs.. and other ways of assessing sentiment/value/judgment and  … allocation of belief..

disintermediation of institutions.. like banks/govts is something i can get behind… but important to remember that blockchain and all tech’s emerged from it.. aim to replace our internal organic human capacity for trust, judgement, discretion  .. with cryptographically verified assurance.. this quality of assurance … guarantee on a state of affairs .. at heart of blockchains value potential/premise…

1:04 – means we must be careful.. because if talking about outsourcing our capacities for trust/discretion/judgment to algo infrastructure.. we’re asking the question that cuts directly to what it means to be an individual in the first place.. are we not precisely our capacity to make judgments into which we wish to enter in the world…. when we replace our own organic capacity to make determinations..with a framework.. not merely whose provisions originate outside us.. but whose values founded might not be our own..aren’t we outsourcing question of what it means to have judgment..to be individual in collectivity.. aren’t we surrendering to a logic that is exclusively one of property/contracts/sovereign-individuals/markets.. these were values of people who designed blockchain in first place..

so if not among people for whom values of property/contracts/sovereign-individuals/markets … are salient/resonant.. then.. we have a problem.. trust is something we’ve sold to a third party.. only to be sold back to us as a market condition..

computation is not a species of magic.. it’s work/labor..

bitcoin mining already using energy.. to that used by all of  ireland

bitcoin thermodynamically.. can’t underwrite value..w/o treating entire atmosphere as heat sink and global climate largest externality.. and that is just small scale now.. if we are to scale up.. have to address this (thermo costs) .. and more yet .. an issue of decentralization.. power/grandeur still resolved to .. who is able to marshal greatest amount of computational capital (mirrors now).. property 51% attack.. doom signifier

have to resolve 1\ what are values of foundation and are they ongoing 2\ thermodynamics 3\ can do at scale w/o being vulnerable to attacks..

1:12 – nothing can replace the skin in the game of being in a direct personal gen assembly… tech is to scale.. great to connect cities w one another.. but skeptical.. ie: allow others to participate who can’t invest time in gen assembly.. but i don’t think there’s any replacement for that.. decisions are made best around the dunbar number of 150…. i’m very interested in the gen assembly as a vital/living/political decision making forum

decision making et al… consensus

1: 20 adam: on binary  ness.. lateur.. matters of concern far more open ended.. activate diff potentials in people… matters of concern produce more positive externalities.. that process of self actualization .. the point of democracy.. this defn between the matter of fact..and matters of concern.. very helpful to me.

1:30 – adam: clearly yes.. we need more direct democracy.. i don’t think we make informed..evidence based decisions… i don’t think we ever have.. i think that the idea that we bring data to bear on the questions before us  is much less relevant than the affect ..&  the lived expereince of collective power… so yes i do think we need more direct democracy.. whether or not (democracy) it’s a good decision making tool is almost secondary to what it does for us and who we become in its presence

hosting life bits ness..

redefine decision making et al… consensus. and much data.. irrelevant.. ie: self talk as data.. so we can embrace.. revolution of everyday life.. a nother way… because: short

after panel:


“Disruption = finding more ways to commodify relationships for profit”- @evgenymorozov#democraticcities#dcentmadrid

“Disruption = squeezing the last value out of a dying welfare state” – @evgenymorozov#democraticcities#dcentmadrid

#bigdata improves efficiency of capitalist welfare states while creating a marketable resource @evgenymorozov#democraticcities#dcentmadrid

Emancipation is impossible w/o simultaneously fighting commodification and domination @evgenymorozov#democraticcities#dcentmadrid


.@evgenymorozov tech companies like Google are capturing the welfare state through data monopoly subsidised by advertising #DCENTMadrid

even if that would imply commodification .. is a good thing…

can we imagine an alt model that does not solidify current model of plutocracy.. nor leads to full commodification of data..  think o flevel of.. how can citizens org for selves.. collection of data & analysis/use/provision for alt services.. if citizens were to be truly empowered.. would have to start locally… how can we articulate common ownership regime for data combined w advance strategy that would be quite modular..


Paul starts at 1 hour in livestream

he is the interviewer.. and it’s all in spanish – except his questions..

Julian (same video that has pic of paul on front) starts at 2:16

2:18 – correlation between all the leaks..

2:23 – having studied the reality of power.. i have a mixed view about the power of democracy.. by defn.. except when everyone comes together and through number have power.. it’s the elites that have power… so to significantly shift a society.. culturally.. it’s not nearly enough to simply call on majority of people or ed majority of people.. not is it simply enough.. to stick flowers in guns..also necessary to fragment and produce internal friction.. to weaken the effectiveness of their rule

or.. gershenfeld something else law.. give them too.. something else to do..

2:27 – message running through this conf.. what happened to the arab spring.. well now called arab winter..  what can you say about this.. is it the case that the population should not have been educated in that way .. and that wikileaks should have taken some god’s eye view.. well what happened: had peaceful revolt.. swiftly major geopolitical players became involved.. took advantage of moment and increased amount of conflict.. so those existing forces of hard power/intelligence adapted eventually to the new political/social dynamic.. and grabbed it and twisted it toward their own purposes… parallel here.. what happens to noble software efforts.. which are then grabbed by google/nsa to run world wide server network…

2:34 – wikileaks is a library of more than 11 million persecuted documents.. we find docs that are threatened.. that powerful orgs are trying to keep from entering into our common historical record.. and we give them sanctuary and make them available for everyone to use..  as library has greatest ongoing impact… not so much educating but marketing… ie: all the papers/cases… that have come out of it.. that have set people free… that same type of smaller process is engaged

2:46 – madrid city… demanding govts of us uk obey un decision….

2:53 – panel on alt ways – monitoring – Francesca.. on panel – Paul

2:54 – francesca – beyond policies of representation… so what are these platforms.. how do we build these together..

2:55 – paul – post capitalism – after 50 yrs of observing/reporting on horizontal movement…  i observed a clear problem.. one no and many yeses allowed us to create movements no longer under control.. also led to .. a concept – refusal to win – if all you can achieve by winning is 20 cent socialism.. many people believe better not to win.. i also believe that.. so i wrote book to say.. ok.. i don’t have answer.. but if want to create a framework in which we win.. what is it..

2:56 – info tech .. diff than all other techs.. theory that info tech creates cog capitalism.. i don’t believe info tech is heading to cog capitalism… i think it has prevented capitalism’s ability to adapt..  what’s happened before (capitalism never doomed) because of capitalisms ability to mutate..  during mutations.. new tech.. new business models w higher wages .. higher consumption needs.. and call new tech paradigm.. i say info prevents creation of new tech synthesis… creates jobs but not fast enough to replace jobs destroyed..

2:58 – because we fear automation we don’t automate.. instead we create millions of jobs that are low paid and do not need to exist.. so new tech paradigm has not emerged..in fact.. living through biggest tech capability alongside biggest stagnation..

2nd – info tech makes utopian socialism possible.. that is.. it makes small scale experiments at life changing radical changes in practice possible in a way hierarchical 20th cent does not..

2:59 – for me.. therefore.. project becomes.. 1\ to understand state, market, and non-market sectors.. problem.. econ doesn’t even see this third econ.. see it as people w a hobby… so first.. insist to the elite that the 3rd sector exists… second thing.. however we get power..

3:00 – we can proactively grow that sector.. the formula.. grow 3rd sector by regulating in a way that favors it.. switch on creation of high well being.. can be done w/o legislation simply by deciding to do it.. next .. regulate market sector.. to produce social justice and green outcomes.. and rethink what state does… de link work from wages..  if state could begin to provide inputs to labor.. housing/ed/healthcare.. that’s even more effective than basic income…

3:02 – cities are natural base to begin these experiments… a new agent of history: the networked individual.. and city is where they want to live.. networks in cities.. multi layered and resilient… so easier to survive the backlash.. cities are symbolic.. and places where you can high amounts of political power.. and state operators don’t function in same way.. ie: no secret police/state…

3:04 – next phase – 1\aim for big clear demonstrative outcomes.. free wifi for everyone to use cell for free.. cheap/free housing.. big achievable things.. 2\ set narrative.. insist that why we are doing this is because system is broken.. some things we can do are keynsian.. remixing in a radical way 3\ create clear horizontal network between radical cities.. if one city discovers innovation works.. it arrives ready made in other cities next morning..

3:06 – 4\ create drag/drop template for city action..

hosting life bits ness .. as trail.. facilitator.. of us

3:30 – Trebor – platform cooperativism 1\ worker ownership & cooperatism also 2\ commons and unionism

3:37 – paul – most important thing to conquer is this fear that we can’t do anything.. we have to educate ourselves that not everything happens at once… most important thing.. gain footholds of radical control…one thing i want to take.. knowledge that we have to build hegemony/consent for what we are trying to do..

begs we make it deep/simple/open enough for all of us

3:42 – franseca: how can we imagine this project.. because we do need scale.. we need an imaginary that will allow us to get there…


Francesca Bria


may 28

City of #Amsterdam plans on participatory democracy presented by @aikvaneemeren at #DCENTMadrid #DemocraticCities https://t.co/gRh4q4sp5w

Original Tweet: https://twitter.com/jaromil/status/736559110716592128

.@aikvaneemeren rethinking future government working with the people for the city #DCENTMadrid pic.twitter.com/E811h6RWiF via francesca
“The responsive city” book suggested by @aikvaneemeren #DCENTMadrid
responsive…? via iacocoba
xabier in Barcelona we set up a strategic participatory planning process with + 20000 people #DCENTMadridpic.twitter.com/NtUqNpayeO
via francesca
Ahora #CiudadesDemocraticas red de ciudades por el cambio #DcentMadrid#DemocraticCitiespic.twitter.com/C1UjFBmBNS
actually do stuff together..a daily issue- #CiudadesDemocraticas#DCENTMadrid panel live livestream.com/accounts/29369… – rev of everyday life
it’s possible to make things different. people govern selves-#CiudadesDemocraticas#DCENTMadrid panel livestream.com/accounts/29369… – stigmergy
Laboratorio ciudadano de producción, investigación y difusión de proyectos culturales. Ayuntamiento de Madrid