m of care – apr 15
on david graeber‘s bullshit jobs – dg
This Thursday, we will discuss chapters 3 and 4 of Bullshit Jobs: A Theory with Greg Yudin.https://drive.google.com/…/1tGfYpw2chgEiUNSy5CS…/view…Graeber’s work is part of a larger anthropological tradition that exposes the self-contradictory view of human motivation espoused by modern economics. However, his own original view of economic motivation has not been discussed. If the rational egoist of economists is a myth, what drives humans to work? And how is it possible at all to avoid labor violence (‘forcing to work’)? How does Graeber’s view relate to other approaches to politics of labor (such as Arendt or post-operaism)? What are the institutional settings encouraging humans to work towards a good life?
nika tweets: Our reading group tonight: Graeber’s work is part of a larger anthropological tradition that exposes the self-contradictory view of human motivation espoused by modern economics. 1/ However, his own original view of economic motivation has not been discussed. If the rational egoist of economists is a myth, what drives humans to work? 2/ And how is it possible at all to avoid labor violence (‘forcing to work’)? How does Graeber’s view relate to other approaches to politics of labor (such as Arendt or post-operaism)? What are the institutional settings encouraging humans to work towards a good life?
what we need is a means to listen deep enough.. to hear the itch-in-8b-souls.. and then use that data to connect us
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notes/quotes from meeting:
dmitrii: question on who’s going to define community.. if value is defined by community
rachel: do you we need to define community.. because social org..i wonder if one of the root problems of which bs jobs stand.. the defn is always based on the other’s defn .. not on the inherent defn itself..
dmitrii: yeah.. i just realized my question was really about scale.. that’s always the question.. how to scale up
greg yudin (presenter): what i’m interested in here.. what would world look like w/o bs jobs.. what would drive people to work..t
curiosity ie: cure ios city.. imagine if we
kropotkin dirty jobs law et al
graeber job\less law et al
matt r: how’s it going to work..
use tech as it could be to listen to daily curiosity and use that data to connect us..
greg: match this idea of contribution w gift/exchange model.. this might be tricky..
let go
‘in undisturbed ecosystems ..the average individual, species, or population, left to its own devices, behaves in ways that serve and stabilize the whole..’ –Dana Meadows
simona: let’s put aside deciding what’s useful for community.. problem is to show what happens when jobs are no more necessary and just a way to keep the power structure society.. we maintain it because we cannot think of another kind of order for our societies..t
huge.. let’s work on that.. ie: 2 conversations.. as infra.. imagine if we
simona: let’s get out of this trap that a job should be useful.. it can just be play.. i think the key word is play.. having fun.. not having a goal.. paradoxically.. work that is useful is work that is not having a goal..
david on care and freedom.. let’s org around that
simona: free rider is a problem in a community
not if we org around our essence.. so that everyone is dancing the dance..
simona: i think what david says .. that what is useful is what is free.. not about solving..
greg: on having no goal
vassily: david saying from surveys.. most frustration from bs jobs.. don’t have time to do meaningful things.. ie: plato on the republic.. he’s actually excluding a whole part of society.. because they don’t have time.. because they have to work.. and work won’t wait
greg: back to simona.. the most important thing to be produced is freedom.. liberty..
rachel: on defining bs job.. what is a bs life.. where ie: one must work.. we pretend not enough resources et al.. that’s why we have to create these markets et al..if accepted enough resources.. you’d have people doing whatever.. to me.. what’s so interesting about bs jobs.. it’s also about bs life we are being forced to subscribe to
tj: on lse book reading of bs jobs.. on criteria.. the 250 people that contributed to the book.. vast majority were prof/managerial.. hired because experts.. they had nuanced arguments.. rather than just short laundry list of criteria.. that’s what’s bothered me about whether or not we are subjective about our jobs.. also.. david started from our anal.. rather than from other thinker/theory.. i think he respected the contributors in a way that felt quite unusual
vassily: p 128 in his book
vassily: back to rachel’s bs life.. and what is spiritual violence
greg: i read this sv hear .. when not choosing course of life for self.. it is already a violence
tj: for me.. when in such an institution.. sadomasochism in every day life.. we think it’s an extreme thing.. but in our world.. it’s quite dominant.. great many of us are in sadomasochism relationships..
vassily: to find the book.. tj: i could scan it..
greg: just takes a little shift to realize you’re playing a game
sevda: i found it.. will put it in the library
http://libgen.rs/search.php?req=sadomasochism+in+everyday+life
link forbidden to europeans.. and others.. so adding to library
nika: suggesting again to not do meetings every week.. but will be reading group on apr 29 w simona.. next week is assembly
simona: on carnival ie: instead of a funeral.. and i want to discuss revolutionary relations.. so ch 1 of possibilities ie: how feast/body treated in tradition.. what does it mean to have a carnival..
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