david on anarchism ness

David Graeber | A Drink with the Idler – july 24 2020 – 1 hr video

david graeber.. graeber anarchism law.. anarch\ism et al


21 min – these people assume that order and violence are the same thing.. but they’re actually the opposite.. you only need to threaten people with weapons if you’re bad at organizing.. t

ie: if not org-ing around legit needs

and that’s what the state is.. it’s a bad form of org.. as i say.. capitalism is just a bad way or org-ing communism.. because actual is always cooperative.. in the similar way the state is a bad way of org ing people because they wouldn’t have to constantly threaten you with guns if they knew what they were doing.. t

23 min – i see debt and bs jobs very much as political books.. capitalism increasing relies on moral arguments.. that is to say the traditional arguments for c have largely gone by the boards.. 1\ maybe it creates terrible ineq but even people on bottom can expect their kids/grandkids will be doing better than they.. nobody’s really saying that anymore 2\ it will create rapid tech advance.. so what are we even arguing about.. we’re all going to be living on mars in a few generations.. and that seems to have dried up.. 3\ stability.. creates a larger middle class.. so political stability and democracy.. and any other system will create chaos.. well now we’ve got complete chaos coming out of the political systems of the most advance c countries.. so you can’t use any of those arguments anymore.. t

debt (book).. bs jobs from birth et al

25 min – so basically you have 2 left.. one is like.. there is no alt.. and the other one is moral.. people really do believe that people who don’t pay their debts are bad people.. rich people are not morally obliged to pay their debts at all.. but poor people really do.. .the way they define themselves..t about do i give responsibility.. is about paying debts.. to some debt and morality become the same thing

26 min – in german.. schulde.. should.. morality and debt are the same thing.. in a lot of languages.. sin and debt are the same thing.. lords prayer.. word in original is debt..

so there’s the debt morality and there’s the work morality.. so those are the two things that are really holding together financialized capitalism.. people really do feel they should pay their debts and people really do feel if you’re not working harder than you want to be working at something you don’t enjoy very much.. for a guy you don’t really like.. then you’re just a bad person.. don’t deserve the love and support of your community.. t

32 min – on law of work.. used to be certain part of life.. till like 30.. everybody did it.. worked for someone else.. just to make enough money to start a real life.. with c lot of people never get to grow up.. always a servant.. lot of specialists.. couldn’t give them orders because they knew more than you and you needed them.. but other problem was debt.. because technically you owe them.. you only pay them later.. that’s why had to get workers into debt.. since boss owes you you got to take home stuff.. like interest payment.. so now.. had to create hours where people couldn’t create stuff.. 9-5 ness..

37 min – most labor laws came from clerks.. they started negotiating.. doing contracts.. benefits, vacations, trade unions et al.. point of bs job is that it’s supposed to be a real job..

39 min – importance depends on how many people are with you.. called managerial feudalism

managerial feudalism ness

41 min – according to econ theory.. bs jobbers should be happy as could be.. amazing that these are the most miserable..

42 min – so the interesting question.. what is it about us that we’re not happy.. that the economists are wrong.. t.. people do feel a need that they’re contributing

perhaps deeper .. khan filling the gaps law et al.. because missing pieces et al

46 min – on no harm to anyone if shut down wall street

47 min – they’re trying to define freedom as owning your own perpetual subordination.. t

49 min – i think nothing terrifies the ruling class more than people having time to think .. t.. (shut down of virus)

huge to curiosity over decision making ness

we can’t hear that itch-in-the-soul

49 min – there’s a sense of a whole generation (young) that are absolutely livid about what they have been presented

50 min – starts q&a

51min – q: what is good org.. and how to we manage society w/o a body that has the mandate from the rest of us

org around legit needs

that depends on how you define society.. ie: natural size ness.. i define anarchist org as any org that wouldn’t require you to be able to pick up the phone and call somebody with a weapon to say shut up i don’t care what you think.. any org that wouldn’t require that would be some form of anarchist org in my mind..

22min – so could look like a number of things.. ie: anarchists have tended to use consensus dm rather than voting.. because w voting some are angry losers and don’t want to go along.. whereas if hear everybody out and change proposal around.. you could usually come up with something everybody can at least live with

oi.. decision making is unmooring us law.. public consensus always oppresses someone(s).. maté trump law.. there’s a better way.. a nother way.. via a means (we can now have) to undo our hierarchical listening

53 min – on people being left alone.. and thinking they’d just end up killing each other.. but on not needing all that.. as seen in many ie’s..

56 min – on paper money et al.. just being a debt that ie: queen owes you money.. if no debt.. no money

59 min – i think states will only act if they are pressured by delegitimization.. and that’s where anarchism comes in

1:04 – if there’s something to learn from post plague society.. it’s to use our imagination to recreate society in that way.. in a way that’s why everybody is running out to meet each other as soon as the lock down ended.. it seemed like it could turn into that kind of a festive life.. we need to reinvent what we think of as happiness.. because we’ve got this dynamic between these solitary hedonistic pleasures and this puritanical need to do more and more work until you justify it.. which is literally killing us .. we need to go the other way on both.. t