m of care – feb 8 (2)

Part 4. Roy Bhaskar’s Enlightened Common Sense and From Science to Emancipation – Reading Group

[i guess it was on the 9th – ch 3]


on roy bhaskar‘s enlightened common sense part 4

notes/quotes from 60 min video:

michael: debate on whether you do things because of social structure.. or because of agency that then creates the social structure

5 min – michael: what he’s arguing is that structure vs agency dilemma is resolved by temporality (michael is in and out on internet)

7 min – steve: his method seems to me about constantly resolving opposites.. so structure vs agency.. less vs and more how in any given moment structure and agency are resolved thru the process.. the bundle of actions/processes in any given moment.. everything is process.. so there is structure.. but the structure is the process

9 min – nika: i gave up reading bhaskar so complicated for me.. but started watching videos.. i thought he was quoting david.. we can/should change the structures.. we are the ones who created them and we can change them.. would be useful for this reading group to do a summary w quotes from david.. when bhaskar is talking he’s very understandable..

graeber make it diff law

10 min – steve: i found david’s article.. value as importance of actions .. on museum of care page

can’t find on museum of care page.. or davidgraeber.org.. or anarchist library

13 min – steve: two sides of same coin.. can’t have agency w/o structure.. can’t have structure w/o agency.. ie: w/o structure how would we know it’s agency.. there’s a logic to it


14 min – steve: comes down to lining up the structures.. david has an actual framework .. where if you id the characters.. can id what bhaskar calls the mechs that explain the playing out of these oppositions.. the mech is that it is real.. but necessarily hidden.. can never be fully captured.. don’t exist empirically in a measurable form

16 min – nika: like dialectic

steve: yeah

17 min – nika: in his (bhaskar) talk.. that most of revolution of past was driven by unconscious motivation.. and now we have to consciously describe what we want to achieve.. that’s how we’re going to survive.. like what david said.. take a piece of paper w friends.. make a plan and act.. t

am thinking we’ve not yet had a legit revolution (aka: re\set).. because we all need detox first (as infra embed)..

ie: legit new structure: org around legit needs – 3 and 30 as infra – 2 convos as insfra

18 min – steve: i’m just going by david’s writings.. not bhaskar’s because i couldn’t get thru them.. so the unconscious motivation..david’s word for it is tendency/proclivity.. so even though people may be greedy.. et al.. certain people because of their enablement and lack of constraints.. they are able to exercise these proclivity of violence.. certain conditions made manifest more than others.. because in a hierarchical position.. so the unconscious motivation is the taboo part.. not annunciated.. ie: do have taboo on violence.. but all based on similar structure of violence.. but when that violence is conscious easy to id.. and put structure in.. but david and bhaskar are saying .. mostly unconsciously and only when do political in advance.. when we read tyranny of structurelessness by freeman

freeman structure law (?) et al

25 min – nika: conditions enablement constraint.. like big boss you won’t mess around with.. what is reproduction transformation again

michael: repro of society.. ie: every morning get up .. people go to work.. tv reminds that men are dominant and women are not..

26 min – nika: video was also talking about this.. that we are reproducing this society everyday even though we didn’t produce it

all (always been) in sea world ness.. we have no idea what legit free people are like.. black science of people/whales law et al

so.. hari rat park law et al

michael going over charts

33 min – nika: i was wondering if stratification really exists.. diff level of consciousness.. all combined like a distributed sovereignty.. something bigger than human relationships

36 min – nika: maybe we do more research.. because i’d like to know answer to that question.. what stratification of personality means

stratification: the arrangement or classification of something into different groups

38 min – john m: p 66 diagram explains it?

40 min – michael: on both people and then body affecting way you feel and what you do (rather than legit agency)

brown belonging law et al

41 min – john: and past experiences effecting way you feel/act/understand situation

42 min – nika: what is deflexive monitoring of routine activities.. accountability to who?.. [keeps asking questions about chart]

49 min – john m: maybe we could add more.. build a wiki.. more collaborative.. and good to have a little project for this

50 min – nika: then maybe we could return to this.. after collected some quotes.. et al

56 min – nika: on cleaning up previous groups.. and ask for help.. really complicated.. a lot of people are trying to make sense of his writings.. really cool project to do collectively..

59 min – nika: so in two weeks.. send an email saying only 4 people.. and bad connection





from roy bhaskar

enlightened common sense:

m of care – nov 8 – part 1

m of care – dec 8 – part 2

m of care – jan 12 – part 3

m of care – feb 8 (2) – part 4




museum of care meetings

museum of care