m of care – feb 2

DEBT: THE FIRST 5,000 YEARS BY DAVID GRAEBER. Part 8. Chapter 9

debt (book) – david graeber – part 8 – ch 9

notes/quotes from 70 min video:

5 min – steve: on book getting historians/academics back into these questions.. david said academics needed a new ontology.. so he’s given us a gift of refusing to go traditional/academic route.. to understand how humans have reached similar understandings about difficulties in human condition

8 min – christian: long chapter.. but much more accessible.. so many parallels to our time.. ie: should take from chapter.. more than one thing can be true at same time.. not a contradiction.. and at that time all about math: currency, bureaucracy, huge armies.. i feel like i’m reading about today

17 min – nika: connection between coins and markets and war quite obvious.. you make value very simple and transferable/exchangeable.. great way to distribute the loot.. but this other part about materialism.. i would like to hear more

18 min – steve: interesting ch.. starts by saying .. jaspar, axial age, why did 3 traditions arise simultaneously and why do they correspond to currency.. ‘drop out culture’.. ‘wandering sages’.. why rise of coinage.. gets at it.. but more clear until doe.. all have similar ethical ness.. but ethical first and not state system.. that gnostic system fuses w violence.. then people living for own material value.. but part of an imperial regime.. that is coercing their bodies to produce this material value.. i think that’s why axial age is so revolutionary.. ie: if you don’t submit will be enslaved/ruined.. and yet this embrace of immaterial value.. the human aspect of econ.. w separate material driven warfare.. so if wandering soldiers who are perpetrating violence.. can raid temples and use piracy to create structure of violence when it captures aesthetic elements and frame in material ways.. then i think you have the kind of static system we have today

23 min – steven greenspan: i have diff take on simultaneity.. ie: disruption of relationships brought on by war.. soldiers moving around.. not as wandering soldiers.. but as professional soldiers as part of a conquest.. how do you deal w the uncertainty.. low trust? coinage is a solution to that.. for soldiers not having to carry or rob to ie: get food.. all inherent in this professionalism of war.. the simultaneity bringing all into one urban center.. bringing in people from all over .. trade going on .. now have people who’s lives are disrupted and thinking about why.. and thought leaders suddenly in contact w lots of diff cultures.. and i think we shouldn’t underestimate the power of communication between these cultures.. i don’t think everything occurs at once..

1:00 – steve: keith hart.. has put forth idea that everything should be money.. problem isn’t money itself.. but that money is one form.. he’s proposed idea of human econ .. we wouldn’t call it barter.. but where everything becomes a form of exchange.. because all connected as one to begin with.. so when exchange.. not the good that’s being exchanged but the people are being remade as a result of that exchange

and/but if keep any form of m\a\p in that exchange ness.. same song.. 10-day-care-center\ness et al

1:01 – steve: doesn’t say abolish money.. but democratize it and make everything money.. reducing everyone to this particular value point.. instead of 1000 flowers blossoming.. 1000 totalities coming into being

1:04 – steve: hart is a big fan of mauss.. like david one.. so all about gifting.. yet when gift someone receiver feels obligated to reciprocate.. the level of reciprocity one feels as result of that gift depends on preexisting hierarchies in place in a community.. so any kind of gift giving requires first an understanding of the community..t so have to understand as a gift.. then understand as whole cosmology.. so a theory of ‘it all depends’

this is why even gift\ness is same song.. red flags galore.. reciprocity et al.. need a nother way sans any form of m\a\p

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