doe online – nov 11
intro: what group have you been a part of
matt: don’t wait for permission for anything.. just jump in
matt: first proposal.. great space to make reading groups.. but also have web site.. would be good also to do a working reading group.. get your group of 5-10 people and post an essay/article/questions/art/songs on site.. i’m going to start on the actual practice of democratic decision making.. i’d like to do a reading group w anyone interested in that..
decision making is unmooring us law
lots of people from early meetings.. (don’t remember what i called those.. they were before museum of care meetings).. gabi, tj, simona, mark, …
gabi: a stenciling project – w excerpts from the book.. tj wanted to propose the rambling group.. i would like to propose we have a rambling session tonight
rob: i’d like to go into some of the places mentioned in the book more deeply.. also interested in background academically of people in this group.. if there’s expertise i can draw upon and learn from.. to go deeper on parts of book
matt: that’s what i’d like too..
ruhi: i like the deep dives idea.. but also to matt’s proposal.. are you going chapter by chapter.. or idea from a book..
matt: i want to look at specifically how the demo assemblies.. what’s the mechanics of that.. how does that discussion happen.. that’s the deep dive.. i think it’s a learned skill.. some communities i’ve been part of have done it well.. but not a natural thing.. so we’ll have multiple autonomous research groups going on.. it’s up to you what groups you create.. go for it
sofie: connecting to what matt/rob said.. my background is international politics.. esp immigration conflict.. so in reading/discussing how some of case studies/principles from book would apply to specific challenges in international politics
owen: my impression is they don’t answer.. how did we get stuck.. great to collect/imagine a book that did take that argument further
gabi: i’d be totally for that .. yes.. really bothers me i’m reading the book and .. what is the answer.. how did we get stuck..
simona: my experience has been in groups that mostly don’t work.. so i’m really interested in your group matt and also in conflict management ideas.. but i don’t know how much of that is in doe.. only idea is our european nw culture is very much about one truth.. and intellectuals know it and had to teach it to others .. and this creates conflict in my opinion.. everybody wants to be rep of truth.. the other thing.. seeing development of concepts in david’s thoughts.. like imagination.. i attended value at lse.. .interesting because there was criticism on david for imagination.. from marxist pov david wasn’t materialist enough.. i think he was very concrete and i would like to double up this idea.. so i suggest a group/mtg on imagination
david ladow: i like idea of group on imagination.. from philosophical standpoint and rescuing humanities from overly sci approach.. empathy/imagination are critical and part of david’s genius.. great to explore that further
tanya: thanks simona for imagination.. i’m an artist/writer.. and i work w a lot of experimentation and speculative design in how to broaden our imagination to create better futures.. so i think that idea is so key
maria: love ideas/ethos.. was wondering if anybody has participated in museum of care.. also web 3 and daos.. building networks rewarding people who participate et al.. what if whole world reading et al..
tj: reading group to understand others’ ideas.. rambling group to understand your ideas.. could unleash people’s imaginations.. in such a thing.. ok to be wrong/crazy/rant/play/weak.. et al.. i would like something diff than reading group..
gabi: kind of like an open mic.. kind of what we’re doing now.. i think other things.. use space to deconstruct our leftist way of doing things.. and create new possibilities of leftist dynamics.. this space not expecting things from people but..
simona: in m of care.. we had a karaoke reading group that was fun/useful.. i think it’s useful to also not get too random in rambling.. some talk more than others.. so i suggest karaoke reading group..
matt: this is one of reasons we want people to create own .. smaller groups.. for time with back and forths..
tj: i think there are techniques.. because always risk to have negative dynamics.. ie: brevity is a skill to learn.. so it’s a new idea.. rambling.. but i think we could also include critiques on reading group.. ie: people read.. learn other guys’ ideas.. and when i ask.. what did you get from it and how will you change because of reading it.. find.. lots don’t answer.. too focused on the reading.. also.. lot of lit is so dry.. that’s not how i think of organizing.. think of workplace.. ie: legalized child labor.. not in org’d lit.. we have consciousness sessions.. seeing all have this problem.. humiliations from boss.. riles people up.. so i find there’s something about reading groups that get so abstract/removed.. and i think right wing know how to channel that high emotion.. ie: david on rant of dead zones of imagination.. for someone to take his work and extract the visceral feeling of it.. it’s pretty strong..
ruhi: i liked tj’s idea in terms of the transformative powers of lit.. thru lit i got to look at ideas of.. because i didn’t have the language for it.. i think certain aspects of lits have transformative effects on my work.. so i would love that.. what actions are you taking.. analysis is one thing but in end all about praxis.. that’s where i would like to go
axel: i love idea of imagination.. i’m an artist.. also to tj’s point bringing concepts in to reality/action.. gabi and i are putting together a class on 3 ideas of freedom and on stencil project at free school (iafs)..
gabi: on the stencil.. any body into actions/art.. one of problems for me.. is that all of ideas of book won’t get into normal minds/discourse.. one way to counter that would be to do something that catches people’s attention.. ie: an action in the city.. we’re going to coord this for jan.. we don’t have money for marketing.. but also don’t want the negs of marketing.. so like an anti marketing campaign for the book
tj: pdf magazine.. wondering what wengrow thinks that everyone is saying it’s graeber’s book.. how about the reader that is told to shut up all day.. if book is supposed to be inspiring .. then let’s hear it.. and have reading groups for others.. i’m committing to building a magazine/pdf.. for little write ups that you get from meetings.. allows for it not to just be hw that’s thrown away.. gets a greater audience.. perhaps.. like math magazines.. we can have puzzles in the back.. and finally doe is 700 page book w no pics.. so we could have art/pics that compliment the ideas.. so maybe pay some artist (i’m also part of iafs).. that matches ideas..
sofie: i like the ideas.. and what tj said in end on diff mediums of expressing on diff levels..
axel: tj i love the mag.. and esp the puzzle idea